So first impression is that you're getting more consolidated in your movements which means more efficient without losing power. This is definitely a more mature kata than the last one you posted.
However - I think you're losing some potential explosion in your last double bushiken strikes by letting the elbows come too far from the body and letting the shoulders rise too high. These two things combined lengthen the distance your strike must cover. Granted - over distance you can gain power - however it also takes more time to cover more distance. So by reducing the size of those movements you cover less distance with equal power and thus gain explosion.
To refence your post on power on Van's forum - what are you putting under load in order to explode? If the shoulders and elbows both raise up like that nothing is put on stretch...at least not in my experience. So I'm interested in how the arm movement works into your plyometric load train of thought.
Post your Sanchin Kata Video here
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benzocaine
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I like what you are doing with your stance Marcus. It's great to see the foot postion improving 
(edited)You may want to try waiting until later in the strike to turn the hand over, this will help keep the elbows in. Try keeping the looseness of your strike but sort of pretend you are holding up a cup of water in your hand until the end of the strike. I think this will help you to use your shoulders less and use the tourque of your hips and spine more.
As usual this is just my 2 cents and mean no disrespect to you or anyone else. Any questions just ask, and I'll do my best to answer.
(edited)You may want to try waiting until later in the strike to turn the hand over, this will help keep the elbows in. Try keeping the looseness of your strike but sort of pretend you are holding up a cup of water in your hand until the end of the strike. I think this will help you to use your shoulders less and use the tourque of your hips and spine more.
As usual this is just my 2 cents and mean no disrespect to you or anyone else. Any questions just ask, and I'll do my best to answer.
The Kata…
I found the posted Kata very interesting, and different from the way I see them performed.
I will try to explain what I see as the difference, because it seems to be an expression of a different set of fundamentals.
First: the Sanchin draw/strikes:
The motions and power that I see in the Katas of Laird and especially Marcus are what I might describe as being around the circumference of a cylinder. These are essentially swinging motions occupying a lot of cylindrical space, and using lots of rotation around the outer circumference very much like a boxer does.
In some instances, as Laird pointed out, the circumference is so wide that the strikes can actually be directed inward FROM the perimeter.
I would liken this basic concept to swinging a weight on a string that is anchored at the centre.
Laird pointed out that keeping his arms in by the ribcage doesn’t work for him – I can see this, and I see why. Bringing his arms in to the ribcage would make the cylinder smaller, and so reduce the arc of swing, taking power away.
Using rotational power in a wide cylinder while keeping the arms in by the ribs wouldn’t make any sense.
Second: the Waukes:
I find the movements, particularly the transitional movements, to be very elbows-out, rather forward-stretched and the body stance more leaning forward than I’m used to. Perhaps this reflects the use of the Wauke as a clearing/entering tool, I’m aware of this concept.
Now, about the difference:
The fundamental difference is that the Kata and power generating techniques that I am exposed to (and train) are more conceptually driven from the centre (body core) outward, rather than around the circumference of a cylinder.
The movements begin in the very centre of the body and shoot outwards TOWARD the circumference, rather than follow around it.
There’s not a whole lot of VISIBLE rotation, because it’s internal rather than external.
Perhaps a good analogy would be the difference between lancing someone straight on as opposed to swinging at them with a club.
Both are effective but they use opposite principles of power delivery.
The club’s power follows the perimeter of the arc (cylinder) whereas the lance’s power is issued directly out from a centre point, in the straightest possible line. (I don’t mean that Uechi is a linear style.)
Lancing someone requires a small rotational twist, but the weapon is delivered straight out.
So for me, getting my arms tucked into the ribcage is actually short of what I want: I want my arms right into the very centre of my body core, because it is from the body centre that I am launching a Sanchin strike.
As for the Waukes, a similar “elbows-in” principle applies (for me) in order to keep the elbow egg-circle small and let the arms whip around it.
When drawing in for the double strike, we again keep the elbows tucked in because we’re attempting to shoot the strikes from the centre of the body, not focusing them to a point from a wide, elbows-out baseline.
We learn/practice a very “close” style of Uechi where there is essentially no room for the techniques shown in the videos. Our “hypothetical opponent” is imagined (and trained) much closer.
Rather than extending the technique in a “throw the net” fashion, we try to move ourselves in closer and deliver it in a more compact form.
I know, I know…”post your video or shut up…” anyway, I find this fascinating, and I don’t mean to sound like some expert: I’m not.
I hope this will be taken as a critique, not a criticism!
NM
I found the posted Kata very interesting, and different from the way I see them performed.
I will try to explain what I see as the difference, because it seems to be an expression of a different set of fundamentals.
First: the Sanchin draw/strikes:
The motions and power that I see in the Katas of Laird and especially Marcus are what I might describe as being around the circumference of a cylinder. These are essentially swinging motions occupying a lot of cylindrical space, and using lots of rotation around the outer circumference very much like a boxer does.
In some instances, as Laird pointed out, the circumference is so wide that the strikes can actually be directed inward FROM the perimeter.
I would liken this basic concept to swinging a weight on a string that is anchored at the centre.
Laird pointed out that keeping his arms in by the ribcage doesn’t work for him – I can see this, and I see why. Bringing his arms in to the ribcage would make the cylinder smaller, and so reduce the arc of swing, taking power away.
Using rotational power in a wide cylinder while keeping the arms in by the ribs wouldn’t make any sense.
Second: the Waukes:
I find the movements, particularly the transitional movements, to be very elbows-out, rather forward-stretched and the body stance more leaning forward than I’m used to. Perhaps this reflects the use of the Wauke as a clearing/entering tool, I’m aware of this concept.
Now, about the difference:
The fundamental difference is that the Kata and power generating techniques that I am exposed to (and train) are more conceptually driven from the centre (body core) outward, rather than around the circumference of a cylinder.
The movements begin in the very centre of the body and shoot outwards TOWARD the circumference, rather than follow around it.
There’s not a whole lot of VISIBLE rotation, because it’s internal rather than external.
Perhaps a good analogy would be the difference between lancing someone straight on as opposed to swinging at them with a club.
Both are effective but they use opposite principles of power delivery.
The club’s power follows the perimeter of the arc (cylinder) whereas the lance’s power is issued directly out from a centre point, in the straightest possible line. (I don’t mean that Uechi is a linear style.)
Lancing someone requires a small rotational twist, but the weapon is delivered straight out.
So for me, getting my arms tucked into the ribcage is actually short of what I want: I want my arms right into the very centre of my body core, because it is from the body centre that I am launching a Sanchin strike.
As for the Waukes, a similar “elbows-in” principle applies (for me) in order to keep the elbow egg-circle small and let the arms whip around it.
When drawing in for the double strike, we again keep the elbows tucked in because we’re attempting to shoot the strikes from the centre of the body, not focusing them to a point from a wide, elbows-out baseline.
We learn/practice a very “close” style of Uechi where there is essentially no room for the techniques shown in the videos. Our “hypothetical opponent” is imagined (and trained) much closer.
Rather than extending the technique in a “throw the net” fashion, we try to move ourselves in closer and deliver it in a more compact form.
I know, I know…”post your video or shut up…” anyway, I find this fascinating, and I don’t mean to sound like some expert: I’m not.
I hope this will be taken as a critique, not a criticism!
NM
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Stryke
First of thanks 
great feedback and lots to work off
Dana I like your take , I am very much exagerating that movement , but it is a load IMHO , what i`m concentrating on is not so much the arm position but the opening of the chest , I`m drawing my shoulder blades as far back as I can and then almost rolling over the shoulders . It does increase power , with my visualisation of the bushikens I`m already in contact at this point , I`m not thinking range at all . I`m also relying a lot on sinking , I kind of tamed it down on this But I drop a lot more into my strikes of late ... but it`s an expirement in progress .
Ben thanks mate , no offence here at all guys , I appreciate the feedback
Agree with the hand over , Is something to work on , thanks
Neil , I love !! your observations
and of course I agree and disagree and learn from it .
The draw and strikes ... I agree that theres a lot of rotation , and agree with your definition on how it creates power , It`s a usefull tool , But I disagree that bringing the elbows in sacrifices power , well to a point ... the only thing I find is I dont want to draw as far when I bring the elbows in , it becomes far less natural .
I do think my elbows were a little far out in the clip , just a little though , Ideally I do want them in alignment with the strike , at least for kata .
, I do have a lot of influences on it , It is very far out and very forward oriented .
I want to hit with my guard and make contact , I`m quite happy to be slapping right alongside the body or spearing in with the guard , the transfer or circle thingy is a weapon and to rip and bend and pull , I usually have a limb or neck and am latched on when I fire the Bushikens I`m usually in contact grappling and as close as one can get .
Id also say the same thing for the draw strikes , I see the draw as a pull , I`m incontact unbalancing and pulling with the draw and spearing wioth the guard , releasing and dropping a short fajingy type shot , once again as close as one can get .
Thanks again
great feedback and lots to work off
Dana I like your take , I am very much exagerating that movement , but it is a load IMHO , what i`m concentrating on is not so much the arm position but the opening of the chest , I`m drawing my shoulder blades as far back as I can and then almost rolling over the shoulders . It does increase power , with my visualisation of the bushikens I`m already in contact at this point , I`m not thinking range at all . I`m also relying a lot on sinking , I kind of tamed it down on this But I drop a lot more into my strikes of late ... but it`s an expirement in progress .
Ben thanks mate , no offence here at all guys , I appreciate the feedback
thanks Ben , still a ways to go , I figure my face is still about 30 degrees from strongest position , If I blade about this much I acheive a much more correct Sanchin dachi , theres reasons for and against but I see myself coming more square for now , long way to go with the stance .I like what you are doing with your stance Marcus. It's great to see the foot postion improving
Agree with the hand over , Is something to work on , thanks
Neil , I love !! your observations
and of course I agree and disagree and learn from it .
The draw and strikes ... I agree that theres a lot of rotation , and agree with your definition on how it creates power , It`s a usefull tool , But I disagree that bringing the elbows in sacrifices power , well to a point ... the only thing I find is I dont want to draw as far when I bring the elbows in , it becomes far less natural .
I do think my elbows were a little far out in the clip , just a little though , Ideally I do want them in alignment with the strike , at least for kata .
well my Wauke is probably very different to anyonesSecond: the Waukes:
I find the movements, particularly the transitional movements, to be very elbows-out, rather forward-stretched and the body stance more leaning forward than I’m used to. Perhaps this reflects the use of the Wauke as a clearing/entering tool, I’m aware of this concept.
, I do have a lot of influences on it , It is very far out and very forward oriented .I want to hit with my guard and make contact , I`m quite happy to be slapping right alongside the body or spearing in with the guard , the transfer or circle thingy is a weapon and to rip and bend and pull , I usually have a limb or neck and am latched on when I fire the Bushikens I`m usually in contact grappling and as close as one can get .
Id also say the same thing for the draw strikes , I see the draw as a pull , I`m incontact unbalancing and pulling with the draw and spearing wioth the guard , releasing and dropping a short fajingy type shot , once again as close as one can get .
In short i agree with the range and am pursuing the same thing in perhaps a different way .We learn/practice a very “close” style of Uechi where there is essentially no room for the techniques shown in the videos. Our “hypothetical opponent” is imagined (and trained) much closer.
Thanks again
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Marcus - can you grab your hands behind your back?
Kinda like this except your hands are grabbing each other instead of a golf club.
I'm not asking that to be cheeky either. I completely understand what you're staying about shoulder blades together - it is part of the Nakamatsu training. A completely open and relaxed chest that doesn't inhibit movement.
That being said - I think your pecs are too tight if you feel you can't expand the chest with the shoulders down. I'd offer that if you spent a couple of weeks stretching the pec muscles you'd feel less of a need to lift the shoulders to feel unrestricted.
There are some very easy pec stretches to do that include:
Putting your forearms on either side of a door frame or corner and leaning forward and shoulder, head, and above head height. Most folks only talk about having the elbows at shoulder height - but my PT friend says doing all three helps stretch both the lateral and oblique pecs.
This is a great set of three stretches to open up the shoulders/traps.
http://www.triathletemag.com/story.cfm? ... ageID=1732
Anway - I may be off base with this, but overall shoulder/chest flexibility plays a big role in being able to have efficient and explosive movements through the full range of motion.
Kinda like this except your hands are grabbing each other instead of a golf club.
I'm not asking that to be cheeky either. I completely understand what you're staying about shoulder blades together - it is part of the Nakamatsu training. A completely open and relaxed chest that doesn't inhibit movement.
That being said - I think your pecs are too tight if you feel you can't expand the chest with the shoulders down. I'd offer that if you spent a couple of weeks stretching the pec muscles you'd feel less of a need to lift the shoulders to feel unrestricted.
There are some very easy pec stretches to do that include:
Putting your forearms on either side of a door frame or corner and leaning forward and shoulder, head, and above head height. Most folks only talk about having the elbows at shoulder height - but my PT friend says doing all three helps stretch both the lateral and oblique pecs.
This is a great set of three stretches to open up the shoulders/traps.
http://www.triathletemag.com/story.cfm? ... ageID=1732
Anway - I may be off base with this, but overall shoulder/chest flexibility plays a big role in being able to have efficient and explosive movements through the full range of motion.
Did you show compassion today?
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Stryke
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Stryke
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Guest
Dana thanks for posting the imformation on stretching.
I have some rotor cuff damage. One of the ways my body compensates is by tightenting the pecs and pulling the shoulders forward. The bodys attempt to lock down the humerous head compensating for tears and atrophied muscles.Tight pecs are an ongoing battle,
Your stretching advice will be utilized by me Sounds better than trigger point massage at any rate. 
Thanks again!
I have some rotor cuff damage. One of the ways my body compensates is by tightenting the pecs and pulling the shoulders forward. The bodys attempt to lock down the humerous head compensating for tears and atrophied muscles.Tight pecs are an ongoing battle,
Your stretching advice will be utilized by me
Sounds better than trigger point massage at any rate. Thanks again!
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Rick Wilson
Lifted this from Dana’s forum:
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.p ... 870#117870
One tough woman. . .
Found this clip taken at the "Hut" and thought you might enjoy it. Pat Saunders, who owns and operates the "Stow Martial Arts Center" demonstrates a keen understanding of body dynamics in this slow motion video clip of her very powerful Sanchin.
http://uechi-ryu.com/videos/pat_saunders_1.wmv
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GEM
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.p ... 870#117870
One tough woman. . .
Found this clip taken at the "Hut" and thought you might enjoy it. Pat Saunders, who owns and operates the "Stow Martial Arts Center" demonstrates a keen understanding of body dynamics in this slow motion video clip of her very powerful Sanchin.
http://uechi-ryu.com/videos/pat_saunders_1.wmv
_________________
GEM
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Stryke
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Guest
Carlos! Those clips are awesome!SAN-DAI-RYU wrote:The more I look at this katas wich are so different in technique; I less understand, and more I want to go back to train with this other katas
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/014/006/index.html
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/009/002/001.html
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/011/002/index.html
Carlos Sensei
Is it just Me or is Toyama breathing?
These guys do Kata the way they want too, and that is the way it should be for everyone.
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Hi Marcus,
So finally the third time I watched it I realized what was bothering me - sometimes you raise up out of your knees when you step, sometimes you don't. Sometimse to raise up to retract and sometimes you don't. It seems to differ between your single and your double strikes how much you rise up and how much you don't.
So I can't figure out from that clip which one you're aiming for. Can you give me a little inkling to your thinking?
Thanks,
Dana
So finally the third time I watched it I realized what was bothering me - sometimes you raise up out of your knees when you step, sometimes you don't. Sometimse to raise up to retract and sometimes you don't. It seems to differ between your single and your double strikes how much you rise up and how much you don't.
So I can't figure out from that clip which one you're aiming for. Can you give me a little inkling to your thinking?
Thanks,
Dana
Did you show compassion today?
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Stryke
Hi Dana , I`m actually trying to get rid of it to a point , It is an aid in sinking but It breaks my base somewhat .
I do want a sink so there always be some raise but I dont want it necessarily in the rotation .
This last kata needs lots of work , Ive been so trying to find some mechanics its a bit shabby technically ...
I think the key Lies in the front leg for this Ive got to work on letting it twist or open more , letting it relax a little more on the draw .
I do want a sink so there always be some raise but I dont want it necessarily in the rotation .
This last kata needs lots of work , Ive been so trying to find some mechanics its a bit shabby technically ...
I think the key Lies in the front leg for this Ive got to work on letting it twist or open more , letting it relax a little more on the draw .
