"Think- Sanchin...."

[Willy]

Cute pics Kerry! Sorry it's hunting season. Glad you and the kids had no problem with mamma. I got charged by a grizz once made me feel kind of insignificant. Van those peckerwood eco freaks killed the grizzly hunt in Alberta!I think we need an eco freak season.

[Stryke]

So which Kumite are they doing ?

[Willy]

No k drills were performed in that pic mate. Papa bear caught them messing around, killed and ate both of them so momma would get randy again. Well at least someone won.

[Bill Glasheen]

I think we need an eco freak season.

I know a certain Brit with an Irish name and a rich man's curse (the ex's money grubbing lawyer). Who knows... Next trip to Canada, he may offer to pay for a one way ticket.

- Bill

[KerryM]

Well at least someone won.

AHHHH LMA...

I couldn't imagine being charged- well no that's not true- the whole "run" back threw the woods I was imagining being charged... but not by a Grizzly! Holy Cow! How scary would THAT be!

Actualy- When I saw the picture- I'd been working on my Dan Kumitae- but it reminded me of Kyu Kumitae- the end of the first one- where he gets a counter strike... the slight lean in stance being explained in that way-

still though- I had karate on the mind and saw the pic and thought- AHHH SANCHIN BEAR! lol

*shrug*

I spose all karateka "hunt" in some way shape or form- we all hunt for ways "out" of bad situations eh? :)

Kerry

[Bill Glasheen]

I spose all karateka "hunt" in some way shape or form- we all hunt for ways "out" of bad situations eh?

In the words of Grossman... Some people flee from danger, while others were destined to run towards it. Take an average citizen vs. a firefighter, LEO, or veteran soldier. Take a normal person vs. the late Steve Irwin.

We're all a bit different. Given danger, we each have choices. We each will behave in our own unique way.

FWIW, running away from a wild animal is sometimes wise, and sometimes not. Sometimes the animal just wants you out, and you definitely should leave. That would be the case with a mama bear with cubs. But often when you run, you trigger the chase instinct in both wild animals and even humans. That can make it more likely you will be attacked.

And FWIW, if we're talking open ground there aren't any humans who could outrun a healthy Grizzly.

It's best to consider these things when confronting danger. Trusting your instincts can be helpful. But we all should train not to do certain things that can make a bad situation worse.

Cute cubs, by the way. I would enjoy seeing them in real life - from a distance.

- Bill

[Jake Steinmann]

FWIW, running away from a wild animal is sometimes wise, and sometimes not. Sometimes the animal just wants you out, and you definitely should leave. That would be the case with a mama bear with cubs. But often when you run, you trigger the chase instinct in both wild animals and even humans. That can make it more likely you will be attacked.

Several years ago (ok, more than several, now) my parents and I took a trip up to Alaska. The guides did a lecture on "how to maybe not die if a grizzly shows up" (or something like that); one of the things I remember sticking out was the fact that running was very likely to trigger the bears prey drive, and you were, more likely than not, better of just staying still, or moving slowly away.

It makes sense if you think about it. Things that are prey run from things that are predators. The bear sees you running and thinks "huh...I'm not sure what it is, but it's running like crazy. Must be prey. Might as well kill it."

[Van Canna]

Think sanchin

http://www.kaniut.com/abtsam.htm

[Stryke]

Poor Womens still trying to rationalise why , sobering link Van

the Bear did it because it felt like it , no science involved .

[Bill Glasheen]

Poor Womens still trying to rationalise why , sobering link Van

the Bear did it because it felt like it , no science involved .

I remember reading about that incident some time back.

You may shake your head at the woman, what happened to her, and her desire to come to terms with it all. But frankly I see someone who did just fine under the circumstances. And if both my arms were gone, I'd probably be pondering the event for a while...

Grizzly Bears will off you for sport; that is their nature. Black bears generally mind their own business. They're quite capable of eating you or I for supper, but that usually isn't what they do except in rare situations. It's behavior and that's never 100%, but there is a "soft" science to it.

All self-defense situations are percentages. She did all the right things to maximize her odds when the bear confronted her. Unfortunately this bear was likely starving (as was mentioned) and just saw dinner. If a human is hungry enough, they'll eat worms, rats, dog, etc. That's pretty much what was going on here.

Consider having your arm and head munched on and trying to play dead. I don't know of many people who could do it. Then when her right arm was pretty much gone, she still had the coordination and presence of mind to get her radio and set up her rescue. Consider also that this is what she did after Plans A, B, and C failed. Many would have lost it. Not her. She continued to take charge of her survival and ultimate rescue in the most rational fashion. Would most have been so persistent and tenacious? So resourceful? Maintained enough fine motor coordination to get the radio out of the pack with left hand and operate it?

There but for the grace of God go I...

- Bill

[Stryke]

Sure Bill she did well , And I dont shake my head at her but the perpetuation of this critters are mostly safe nonsense .

I wonder if the folks who said guns were more trouble than there worth sleep well at night .

as for the safe Bear , It`s about as smart as saying most people are nice and wont hurt you or rip you off , so it`s not worth worrying about .

Soft Science is a great way of putting it , In my industry we have a saying .. it goes something like this safety first

Are we playing the percentages with individuals lives over Bears ?



Most animals are capable of giving you a good ass kicking , it`s not Walt Disney and it`s not all love and freindship .

Yes most get scared ..... most isnt a good ratio when your dealing with a killing machine .

forewarned is forearmed ?

I think she would of been better of forearmed .

Maybe some bear spray would be better than nothing ? , I cant see this the intelligent scientific approach to hanging around bears , hoping it wasnt gonna be a Grizzly , or Hoping it wasnt going to be hungry .

I do feel sorry for what happened to her , but the lesson here is obvious ... dont rely on luck to stop yourself getting eaten .

the only reason she survives is luck .

[Bill Glasheen]

the only reason she survives is luck

Not really...

I tell all my karate students that their best weapon (other than their brain and their empty hands) is a cell phone. Why? Because you can call for help AND because most of us have one on us. You can't say the same thing about a firearm. Most don't have one day and night.

She had the presence of mind to have a radio, and her radio saved her. Not only that, but she managed to get it out left-handed and operate it with the bear breathing over her. Not bad...

I'll give her some credit.

Handguns may seem sexy in such a situation, but frankly if the bear was that determined it may not have stopped him. It may only have pissed him off. Ever heard the expression "loaded for bear?" Usually people aren't.

Not that you wouldn't start unloading a clip if the firearm was there in your hands...

A hovering chopper though will get the bear's attention. It did, after all...

- Bill

[Stryke]

Not really...

Yes Really Bill , it was totally in the Bears hands , If it had decided to not mess around a little she`d be dead . She did well , that doesnt mean I`m being insensitive , I`m talking about preparedness and safety . And the denial that very well could of attributed to this tragedy .

Luck would happen she was still intact when they arrived , nothing but luck .


The fact she had a radio was not preperation but policy , It was a way that the rest of the crew would know when to go out and look for a corpse . Or as in her case come and clean up the peices . She wasnt prepared for dangerous Bear encounter at all , she was led to beleive yelling and shooing and hitting rocks together would be enough . A couple Rounds overhead would be just as effective yes ? , or would rounds anger where yelling and screaming wont ? .

Handguns may seem sexy in such a situation, but frankly if the bear was that determined it may not have stopped him.

Oh may not of worked so dont carry , more of this soft science angle ? , It`s about percentages is it not ? .

Surely it would of been more scary to the bear to hear a couple pops than too bang a hammer on the ground , might of been heard also depending on the location of other workers , and what about the bear spray option ? .

Trying to shoo a bear away gives me mind to think if other options were available then they might of been used .

I tell all my karate students that their best weapon (other than their brain and their empty hands) is a cell phone. Why? Because you can call for help AND because most of us have one on us. You can't say the same thing about a firearm. Most don't have one day and night.

It`s a tool if you have time for help to arrive , otherwise you sure better be prepared to save yourself . Otherwise it`s just letting them know where to send the clean up squad .

I`m not a Bear expert , and frankly too many Bear experts seem to get eaten for me to beleive there much of experts on anything .

your either prepared for risk or not , If I`m going into a risky situation i`ll be as prepared as I can , wether it be a safety harness for heights , a Hard Helmet , Or a 45/70 If i`m likely to Run into Bears on foot on a regular basis .

I'll give her some credit.

I`ll give her credit for doing her best and coping well , I wont give her or her policy managers credit for being prepared .

I can see we wont agree on this one , and thats fine , but if we consider ourselves serious students of self defence , there are risks and occurences you need to be aware of wether in the feild , or in the urban jungle .

It doesnt mean walking around in code red all the time , but be aware and dont buy into the soft science , This smells alot like the police will protect me . Whatever happened to self responsibility ? , who decides firearms are to dangerous for park workers etc ? .

Managing Risk and safety , more important than the cell phone even though it certainly has a part to play .

[Willy]

Repeat after me: I am responsible for my own safety!
Say it again! Say it again! If you mean it you minimize the risk.

Someone got lucky and survived, the calvary rarely arrives in helicopters in the nick of time and rescues fare ladies. Ussually the victim just get buried in the bush to rot for a few days before being consumed.

I've tons of experience encountering bears, if they want you dead your dead. Some times they just want to give you a wee whooping and chew you up a bit. You know a scalp torn here ,a finger or limb removed there, a few hundered stiches and they leave you be and wander off down the trail. Kind of a warning don't mess with me.

[Van Canna]

If trekking in bear country