Ian wrote: In fact I'm not sure I can come up with one thing that's essential to womanhood, and therefore, I doubt there is an "essence."
Don't think you're going to win too many people over with this one, Ian. LOL
A woman
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Tim Ahearn
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Allen M.
A woman
Sounds to me like you women are X-rated Ian? Better watch out for "some men have some or all of those attributes" who you talk about, they may go after your wang dang doodle. 
Typo: The "you women" should have been "your women" meaning the women you mention as XY and XXX.
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited September 30, 2000).]
Typo: The "you women" should have been "your women" meaning the women you mention as XY and XXX.
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited September 30, 2000).]
A woman
Hey Allen-san - how about this one?
Letty Cottin Pogrebin, author of numerous feminist tomes, including How to Make it In a Man's World (first of all, it seems, it helps to be a man) once said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If boys are better, why should a male choose to love an inferior female? If a penis is so great, two penises should be even greater.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Letty Cottin Pogrebin, author of numerous feminist tomes, including How to Make it In a Man's World (first of all, it seems, it helps to be a man) once said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If boys are better, why should a male choose to love an inferior female? If a penis is so great, two penises should be even greater.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A woman
Panther-san,
Not to worry about the religious references - that warning post was in reference to an earlier post that could have been read as insulting or derogatory to some people's beliefs - and - the posting party for reasons known only to himself thought better about leaving it up and deleted it shortly after my post... to which I replied with my thanks. It did however leave an understandable hole in the thread - hence this explanation.
Thanks for your contributions! Well written and placed as usual!
Not to worry about the religious references - that warning post was in reference to an earlier post that could have been read as insulting or derogatory to some people's beliefs - and - the posting party for reasons known only to himself thought better about leaving it up and deleted it shortly after my post... to which I replied with my thanks. It did however leave an understandable hole in the thread - hence this explanation.
Thanks for your contributions! Well written and placed as usual!
A woman
Valkenar-san,
Yes - a good discussion - still with a lot of potential - things are just starting to get good - hope you keep contributing!
Re: your girlfriend's opinion - I believe I can see where she's coming from - in the belief of unrealistic expectations...
From a female perspective - just gut reaction now - no intellectualizing, psychological or biological theories or what have you - I have found it fairly easy to be emotionally "hijacked" by a male perspective on what makes a woman a woman - or even attractive. The "ideal" is far from the reality - and I confess to my own inner fears in not living up to the "ideal" that my man has created in his heart or mind. Yet the strength, intimacy, and depth of a relationship will move beyond the aesthetics... and when a woman is truly loved - she will KNOW she is HIS ideal - and fears will be assuaged. But when faced with a written word, or a comment about a female in the media or elsewhere, I believe it is natural for a woman to automatically start comparing herself - "what does she have that I don't?" or even "that is what he thinks a "real" woman is? My God I can never live up to that!" It's about expectations - realistic, implied, understood, perceived or otherwise. The difficulties arise in our individual differences on these items.
If you told your girlfriend a definition coming from part of the one trying to form on this thread - she could very well from a personal perspective feel that it was unrealistic - within her own inner "gut" reaction - much the way any woman might (including me) depending on where the relationship defines her idea of expectations from her man. On the other hand - there could also be resentment - things like "you mean I'm not good enough the way I am? well FINE!!"
These are just impressions from a female perspective. Women are defined by so many forces - outside AND inside - and none of these defining forces are very easy to pin down as being more influential than another. The trick here is to try and move beyond the language - beyond the obvious - dig deeper and touch on emotions. Personally I believe that our emotions define us much more than our biology might - and this is a search for an emotional reaction. Not necessarily a definition, a scientific explanation, or even a demand or perception. Just an emotional description of that which defies a good description - because the imprecision of language will always fall short of exactitude on a feeling...
Yes - a good discussion - still with a lot of potential - things are just starting to get good - hope you keep contributing!
Re: your girlfriend's opinion - I believe I can see where she's coming from - in the belief of unrealistic expectations...
From a female perspective - just gut reaction now - no intellectualizing, psychological or biological theories or what have you - I have found it fairly easy to be emotionally "hijacked" by a male perspective on what makes a woman a woman - or even attractive. The "ideal" is far from the reality - and I confess to my own inner fears in not living up to the "ideal" that my man has created in his heart or mind. Yet the strength, intimacy, and depth of a relationship will move beyond the aesthetics... and when a woman is truly loved - she will KNOW she is HIS ideal - and fears will be assuaged. But when faced with a written word, or a comment about a female in the media or elsewhere, I believe it is natural for a woman to automatically start comparing herself - "what does she have that I don't?" or even "that is what he thinks a "real" woman is? My God I can never live up to that!" It's about expectations - realistic, implied, understood, perceived or otherwise. The difficulties arise in our individual differences on these items.
If you told your girlfriend a definition coming from part of the one trying to form on this thread - she could very well from a personal perspective feel that it was unrealistic - within her own inner "gut" reaction - much the way any woman might (including me) depending on where the relationship defines her idea of expectations from her man. On the other hand - there could also be resentment - things like "you mean I'm not good enough the way I am? well FINE!!"
These are just impressions from a female perspective. Women are defined by so many forces - outside AND inside - and none of these defining forces are very easy to pin down as being more influential than another. The trick here is to try and move beyond the language - beyond the obvious - dig deeper and touch on emotions. Personally I believe that our emotions define us much more than our biology might - and this is a search for an emotional reaction. Not necessarily a definition, a scientific explanation, or even a demand or perception. Just an emotional description of that which defies a good description - because the imprecision of language will always fall short of exactitude on a feeling...
A woman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
Most of us guys don't like to cross swords, Lori.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm. Joan Baez may have a point here though when she said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
!
[This message has been edited by Lori (edited September 30, 2000).]
Most of us guys don't like to cross swords, Lori.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm. Joan Baez may have a point here though when she said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
And women too of courseIf it's so natural to kill, why do men have to go into training to learn how?
![This message has been edited by Lori (edited September 30, 2000).]
A woman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
Actually, Lori, many women like to emulate men and do mens' things, wear mens' clothing, etc. I guess that is ok, but when a guy likes to do women's things... Woah! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
AHA! Hot topic ALERT! Good one Allen-san - care to start a thread on that one? Looks good and volatile...
Actually, Lori, many women like to emulate men and do mens' things, wear mens' clothing, etc. I guess that is ok, but when a guy likes to do women's things... Woah! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
AHA! Hot topic ALERT! Good one Allen-san - care to start a thread on that one? Looks good and volatile...
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Allen M.
A woman
Baez must have been smoking something when she said that, because to kill is one of the most unnatural acts a person can do.
Man, oh man. Did I stick my foot in it that time. No, Lori, I don't care to start a thread...
I mentioned that because some of youse girls must see men as better than women. I can understand that to some extent.
Man, oh man. Did I stick my foot in it that time. No, Lori, I don't care to start a thread...
I mentioned that because some of youse girls must see men as better than women. I can understand that to some extent.
