Just looking for an opinion from those women out there who train budo.
I used to put on women's self-defense programs for the town, schools, or whatever organization wanted one, and had moderate success. I stopped because of scheduling problems mostly. However, since that time, many other programs have started up and became popular in this area of the universe.
Anyway, I decided to host another on in July at my dojo. My program is a little different in that it doesn't advocate extreme violence on the part of the victim in order to get away. Without getting in to it, it makes sense when you see it. However, the other programs (i.e. Model Mugging, etc.) are the complete opposite. I guess my question is how do women out there see these programs. Do you think they are beneficial? Do you think that that kind of thinking actually works?
I have plenty of facts and figures from the national gov't. to back up what I teach, but we all know that means squat to the lady in the parking garage in the middle of the night.
Just looking for opinions. Thanks,
mike
women's self defense programs
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mikemurphy
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Jackie Olsen
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women's self defense programs
Mike,
You may want to search the archives; this issue has been discussed several times over the years by Lori, myself & others. (It's hard for me to do extensive searches at work).
Also, check this link out regarding self defense for women. I've taken it (also discussed previously) and can personally vouch for its effectiveness.
http://www.awakeningthewarrior.com/
Hope this gives you a start.
Jackie
You may want to search the archives; this issue has been discussed several times over the years by Lori, myself & others. (It's hard for me to do extensive searches at work).
Also, check this link out regarding self defense for women. I've taken it (also discussed previously) and can personally vouch for its effectiveness.
http://www.awakeningthewarrior.com/
Hope this gives you a start.
Jackie
women's self defense programs
I would still encourage anyone to respond to this thread even though it may have been previously discussed. There are many new people out there with new insights that can contibute to this.
This is not a stale topic and these threads should always be considered a fresh discussion especially in consideration of new visitors. This way I hope we can get new participants into the forum and encourage anything they may wish to add, even at the risk that it was already covered "several times over the years".
I took a look at that link suggested by Jackie and it looks interesting. It also reminded me of a book I read (and gave to someone, so I may not get the title accurate) "When Beauty Bites Beast, Finding the Warrior Within Women and Girls" by Ellen Snortland. It discusses an experience that brought her to attend her first self defense class (non-martial arts) and she goes on to discuss the historical and cultural attitudes throughout the centuries that have impacted how women underestimate and under-develop their ability to defend themselves. Very well written and very well researched. I encourage everyone to pick it up.
BB
This is not a stale topic and these threads should always be considered a fresh discussion especially in consideration of new visitors. This way I hope we can get new participants into the forum and encourage anything they may wish to add, even at the risk that it was already covered "several times over the years".
I took a look at that link suggested by Jackie and it looks interesting. It also reminded me of a book I read (and gave to someone, so I may not get the title accurate) "When Beauty Bites Beast, Finding the Warrior Within Women and Girls" by Ellen Snortland. It discusses an experience that brought her to attend her first self defense class (non-martial arts) and she goes on to discuss the historical and cultural attitudes throughout the centuries that have impacted how women underestimate and under-develop their ability to defend themselves. Very well written and very well researched. I encourage everyone to pick it up.
BB
women's self defense programs
I think any ideas regarding non-physical women’s self defense are always important and need to be explored and really taught out as viable methods of self defense. There could be many situations where a physical counter attack could not be effective and could be avoided, but the alternatives to physical defense need to be known.
Just as an attack can be in the form of a verbal or emotional attack, women also have to learn how to handle themselves and understand how they can defend themselves verbally and emotionally, even if they are under physical attack too. Verbal and emotional self defense also takes instruction and practice.
If you find yourself flinching and jumpy just when someone raises their voice, imagine what you need to be armed with in a road rage situation when the idiot is screaming obscenities as they approach your car. This is when you are assessing what is the threat and what is the defense? The verbal and emotional attack is obvious but what is the correct reaction on my part? What escalates the situation and what could be done to disarm or de-escalate the situation? Something or nothing or both?
Other self defense techniques are just awareness and assessing what is going on around you and being properly prepared for the unexpected. A simple protective measure....Do you know how to change a tire out on the road or are you counting on someone to stop to “rescue” you? Do you have a cell phone to call for road service or 911? In the dead of winter and you are on your way to a party or night club. You are dressed for the party but are you dressed for the weather? Do you keep comfortable walking shoes and a pair of slacks in the car with you just in case you do break down at night in the winter (or any time of year). Have you tried to change a tire in a skirt and high heels? How agile are you in a skirt and high heels if required to walk or "run" even a short distance. Don't you wish you had those sneakers and slacks handy in the trunk or under the seat "just in case"?
Someone is following you in the car, made every turn you made. Do you go directly home or do you go somewhere else? Where do you go and how do you get someone’s attention for help without leaving the car?
I have a women I work with who choses not to learn any self defense because she doesn’t want to work in a class where you have to work with partners, also she gets upset if she has to deal with angry customers who are yelling. I do worry what she will do when her well-being is on the line. She knows what I train in but she is not ready to listen or do. She believes someone else will always be there to watch out for her. But that unfortunately is how too many women think. These lessons need to start early in a girl’s or child’s life. Not to be set aside until something bad happens.
So, yes, I strongly support any courses or seminars that focus on street smarts and alternative self defense issues.
Good luck to you in your instruction.
BB
Just as an attack can be in the form of a verbal or emotional attack, women also have to learn how to handle themselves and understand how they can defend themselves verbally and emotionally, even if they are under physical attack too. Verbal and emotional self defense also takes instruction and practice.
If you find yourself flinching and jumpy just when someone raises their voice, imagine what you need to be armed with in a road rage situation when the idiot is screaming obscenities as they approach your car. This is when you are assessing what is the threat and what is the defense? The verbal and emotional attack is obvious but what is the correct reaction on my part? What escalates the situation and what could be done to disarm or de-escalate the situation? Something or nothing or both?
Other self defense techniques are just awareness and assessing what is going on around you and being properly prepared for the unexpected. A simple protective measure....Do you know how to change a tire out on the road or are you counting on someone to stop to “rescue” you? Do you have a cell phone to call for road service or 911? In the dead of winter and you are on your way to a party or night club. You are dressed for the party but are you dressed for the weather? Do you keep comfortable walking shoes and a pair of slacks in the car with you just in case you do break down at night in the winter (or any time of year). Have you tried to change a tire in a skirt and high heels? How agile are you in a skirt and high heels if required to walk or "run" even a short distance. Don't you wish you had those sneakers and slacks handy in the trunk or under the seat "just in case"?
Someone is following you in the car, made every turn you made. Do you go directly home or do you go somewhere else? Where do you go and how do you get someone’s attention for help without leaving the car?
I have a women I work with who choses not to learn any self defense because she doesn’t want to work in a class where you have to work with partners, also she gets upset if she has to deal with angry customers who are yelling. I do worry what she will do when her well-being is on the line. She knows what I train in but she is not ready to listen or do. She believes someone else will always be there to watch out for her. But that unfortunately is how too many women think. These lessons need to start early in a girl’s or child’s life. Not to be set aside until something bad happens.
So, yes, I strongly support any courses or seminars that focus on street smarts and alternative self defense issues.
Good luck to you in your instruction.
BB
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mikemurphy
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women's self defense programs
Sorry I'm so late getting back to my post. Thank you all for responding. As I said before, I've taught this program on many different occasions in the past, but it has been quite some time ago.
Anyway, I think my program will be very inclusive and a little off the beaten path. I don't believe in the "Model Mugging" scenario as I feel in my heart that it is just leading the woman into more hurt. Do understand though, anything that works is a GREAT technique.
The seminar is getting great response thus far and I should be maxed out very soon. July 18th if anyone is in the area.
mike
Anyway, I think my program will be very inclusive and a little off the beaten path. I don't believe in the "Model Mugging" scenario as I feel in my heart that it is just leading the woman into more hurt. Do understand though, anything that works is a GREAT technique.
The seminar is getting great response thus far and I should be maxed out very soon. July 18th if anyone is in the area.
mike
women's self defense programs
If anyone is interested ...where are you?
BB
BB
women's self defense programs
The main difference between introducing men vs. women to the martial arts is teaching style. For most men, there is an early sense of bravado that can sometimes be helpful to their training, but can also be a hinderence that must be addressed. ( Im sure you all know what I mean.)
With women, in general, they feel timid, or at some level, that they are doing something wrong by striking out or showing agression. And I use those terms in the broadest sense.
A women will look for an instructor that she can TRUST. She must feel safe before she can learn, therfore the early lessons of
-Attack
-Posturing
-Learning to take a hit
must all be held back untill the the woman is comfortable.
We must realize that while boys are taught to be agressive with one another in sports and friendships, women are not.
Men can fight with a friend, and be pals the next day, but for women, even a small argument is considered a breach of scared trust that will alienate them for life unless the proper "forgivness and appology rituals" are enacted.
Women are spiritual creatures. they are in tune with voice inflection, volume, body posturing and all forms of non verbal signaling.
Teach them to recognize the posturing of a dangerous agressor. teach them how to think with defensive strategy. Tell them the FBI statistic that "a women who knows one or more self defense techniques that she can apply EFFECTIVLY will increase her chances of escaping an attacker by 80%"
Show her how pens, keys and other objects can protect her. Help her understand that her training is not about becoming an agressive fighter, but rather, it is a journery of self development.
Emphisize her mental and physical and spiritual development through the arts.
Once this sinks in, she will begin to feel the confidence that the men exhibit so naturally. When you see that change in her, That is when her training can become more traditional.
Basically, the guys want to learn to punch and kick- you have to sneak in the philosophy part... for girls it's just the opposite.
Maybe its a polarity thing...
With women, in general, they feel timid, or at some level, that they are doing something wrong by striking out or showing agression. And I use those terms in the broadest sense.
A women will look for an instructor that she can TRUST. She must feel safe before she can learn, therfore the early lessons of
-Attack
-Posturing
-Learning to take a hit
must all be held back untill the the woman is comfortable.
We must realize that while boys are taught to be agressive with one another in sports and friendships, women are not.
Men can fight with a friend, and be pals the next day, but for women, even a small argument is considered a breach of scared trust that will alienate them for life unless the proper "forgivness and appology rituals" are enacted.
Women are spiritual creatures. they are in tune with voice inflection, volume, body posturing and all forms of non verbal signaling.
Teach them to recognize the posturing of a dangerous agressor. teach them how to think with defensive strategy. Tell them the FBI statistic that "a women who knows one or more self defense techniques that she can apply EFFECTIVLY will increase her chances of escaping an attacker by 80%"
Show her how pens, keys and other objects can protect her. Help her understand that her training is not about becoming an agressive fighter, but rather, it is a journery of self development.
Emphisize her mental and physical and spiritual development through the arts.
Once this sinks in, she will begin to feel the confidence that the men exhibit so naturally. When you see that change in her, That is when her training can become more traditional.
Basically, the guys want to learn to punch and kick- you have to sneak in the philosophy part... for girls it's just the opposite.
Maybe its a polarity thing...
women's self defense programs
Tig posted some interesting ideas and, as has often been said, all generalizations are suspect, even this one. 
Back in the Jurassic Period, when I was teaching personal defense at a community college in the Chicago area, one of the biggest stumbling blocks that my female students had was that of owning their own power.
Even in the 70's, with rampant, militant feminism of the "stand up for your rights, picket, march and don't take any cr** from anyone" attitude, when it came to actually hitting someone, with focus, there was an almost ingrained resistance.
My classes also covered verbal techniques of defending against attack and even there, when confronted with a strong attack, many students would buckle or cringe.
This is not to say that this is true for all, or even the majority of the students out there, but simply my recollection of that period. I admit, times may have changed.
As to spiritual vs physical leading into teaching, I'm not so sure I agree with Tig on his take that you have to go at instruction for women in this manner.
Sometimes (and here's the stage magician in me speaking), you have to use a trick or two to get some students (male or female) to start to own their power to protect themselves.
A good, solid horse stance can be used to show someone how to break a board without moving (the slam the board down onto the thigh break) will often bring a look of total amazement and small satori to a student. By showing them that they can not only take the hit without hardly feeling anything AND break a real, honest-to-goodness BOARD is an eye-opener for most people.
Kiai training also can help here. As a student goes into an attack, simply kiai, with full focus and watch the vast majority of them back away automatically. Then look at them, smile and say, "See?" Often, this is again a real eye-opener.
Our society inculates the idea that physical power is primarily the domain of the male. By allowing a woman (with power issues, of course) to DISCOVER her own inner power and to GAIN PERMISSION to EXPRESS that power in a physical manner against an attacker, IMHO, is the real trick.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Back in the Jurassic Period, when I was teaching personal defense at a community college in the Chicago area, one of the biggest stumbling blocks that my female students had was that of owning their own power.
Even in the 70's, with rampant, militant feminism of the "stand up for your rights, picket, march and don't take any cr** from anyone" attitude, when it came to actually hitting someone, with focus, there was an almost ingrained resistance.
My classes also covered verbal techniques of defending against attack and even there, when confronted with a strong attack, many students would buckle or cringe.
This is not to say that this is true for all, or even the majority of the students out there, but simply my recollection of that period. I admit, times may have changed.
As to spiritual vs physical leading into teaching, I'm not so sure I agree with Tig on his take that you have to go at instruction for women in this manner.
Sometimes (and here's the stage magician in me speaking), you have to use a trick or two to get some students (male or female) to start to own their power to protect themselves.
A good, solid horse stance can be used to show someone how to break a board without moving (the slam the board down onto the thigh break) will often bring a look of total amazement and small satori to a student. By showing them that they can not only take the hit without hardly feeling anything AND break a real, honest-to-goodness BOARD is an eye-opener for most people.
Kiai training also can help here. As a student goes into an attack, simply kiai, with full focus and watch the vast majority of them back away automatically. Then look at them, smile and say, "See?" Often, this is again a real eye-opener.
Our society inculates the idea that physical power is primarily the domain of the male. By allowing a woman (with power issues, of course) to DISCOVER her own inner power and to GAIN PERMISSION to EXPRESS that power in a physical manner against an attacker, IMHO, is the real trick.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
women's self defense programs
You sound like a fine instructor Lee. You have a straight forward approach that, I am sure, works very well.
I suppose I prefer the passive approach because I am a woman.
I suppose I prefer the passive approach because I am a woman.
women's self defense programs
Thanks for the kind words, Tig, but "many paths lead to the same mountaintop - and who says there's only one mountain?" This was a favorite saying of my Sensei and I have taken it to heart.
While I no longer teach (medical problems among other things), I did try to pass on to my students more than an attitude of "get out there and kick a**."
My post was actually ancillary to the other post, not necessarily a contradiction. I perhaps did not make that as clear as I wanted. I guess that's one of the reasons these forums are so useful for me - they force me to focus my thoughts more clearly as I write - something that, as I get older, seems more important now.
Again, thank you for the kind words and thoughts.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tig:
You sound like a fine instructor Lee. You have a straight forward approach that, I am sure, works very well.
I suppose I prefer the passive approach because I am a woman.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While I no longer teach (medical problems among other things), I did try to pass on to my students more than an attitude of "get out there and kick a**."
My post was actually ancillary to the other post, not necessarily a contradiction. I perhaps did not make that as clear as I wanted. I guess that's one of the reasons these forums are so useful for me - they force me to focus my thoughts more clearly as I write - something that, as I get older, seems more important now.
Again, thank you for the kind words and thoughts.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tig:
You sound like a fine instructor Lee. You have a straight forward approach that, I am sure, works very well.
I suppose I prefer the passive approach because I am a woman.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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mikemurphy
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women's self defense programs
BB,
I'm in the Boston area (Randolph to be exact). If you are in the area, give me a call at 781-963-8891.
mike
I'm in the Boston area (Randolph to be exact). If you are in the area, give me a call at 781-963-8891.
mike
women's self defense programs
Mike,
I am also in the Boston area and I am a certified instructor in a Model Mugging type class. I know you posted your number here but I was hoping to receive permission to call you and talk about the varying styles and philosophies of women's self defense. It would be really interesting to sit and see how the two philosophies compare side by side. You can e-mail me at sorceress_the@hotmail.com Thanks
I am also in the Boston area and I am a certified instructor in a Model Mugging type class. I know you posted your number here but I was hoping to receive permission to call you and talk about the varying styles and philosophies of women's self defense. It would be really interesting to sit and see how the two philosophies compare side by side. You can e-mail me at sorceress_the@hotmail.com Thanks
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mikemurphy
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women's self defense programs
Well, the class went really well. I had about 25 students there and plenty of my own students to help out. Too much information to put out in only 3 hours. Now I remember why I used to do this course in 4 weeks!
I'll have to run it again in the Fall sometime and see if I have to add or delete anything. I am very fortunate to have a videographer at the dojo who filmed the night, so as soon as I take a look and do some critiquing, I'll know.
Thanks,
mike
I'll have to run it again in the Fall sometime and see if I have to add or delete anything. I am very fortunate to have a videographer at the dojo who filmed the night, so as soon as I take a look and do some critiquing, I'll know.
Thanks,
mike
