George,
You stated that "Mr.Takamiyagi, Shigeru never pulls his punches or kicks and has an impressive record of breaking fingers, ribs, and other bones of students who meekly endure his "testing."
Please know that i would never condone that extremity of 'testing.' I hope not to have implied in my reference to "hard' or "strong" testing anything of that nature. With that used as an example i can now see the reference of strong "checking" as i will use that terminology in the future.
George, you actually have seniors in your group whom you often tell should "lighten up" in sparring and conditioning ?
hmmmm ! Would i know any of them ? (smile) Yes, you have answered my questions. Thank you.
Anthony, unfortunately i am not able to view the mpegs you posted due to the web tv.net system either won't download them or will take forever. Would like to have seen them. However, your comments regarding them give good reference as to their content.
I'll try to download them again later, seems that my server (network) is very slow at the moment.
O.K. guys, so we seem to have at least agreed to that fact that "strong checking" in Sanchin testing is acceptable along with light touch or pressing as to check stability.
Possibly we can go on to the topic of "conditioning" in Dan Testing as to what we look for in our standards ? I'll start a new topic and "thread".
------------------
Gary S.
Dan Test "Sanchin"
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
<Blockquote>I personally feel that 5th and 6th Dan should show the "most" in ability of all Dan ranks. Possibly tone it down at 7th or 8th. By the time I am tested for 6th Dan I hope there will be a change as I am not comfortable with the three kata format that is presently used.</blockquote>
Gary I agree with your views! But what defines “ability”? You will find much divergence of opinion here!
How would you define “ability”?
And you say that you don’t feel comfortable with the three-kata format! I agree there should be more, but what do you suggest? And how do we define kata performance?
Your thinking is on the right track!
On testing by Mr. Takamiyagy! It makes me smile as I was on the receiving end of that “cultural hand shake” quite a few times at the Boston dojo, back in the seventies!
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Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited February 21, 2000).]
Gary I agree with your views! But what defines “ability”? You will find much divergence of opinion here!
How would you define “ability”?
And you say that you don’t feel comfortable with the three-kata format! I agree there should be more, but what do you suggest? And how do we define kata performance?
Your thinking is on the right track!
On testing by Mr. Takamiyagy! It makes me smile as I was on the receiving end of that “cultural hand shake” quite a few times at the Boston dojo, back in the seventies!
------------------
Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited February 21, 2000).]
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gmattson
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
In the Tomoyose Sensei interview in VidMag21, he talks about the skill of the Tiger teacher (Zhang Tian Ci). He could tell how long he had studied, how long he was inactive and was able to evaluate his superior upper body strength versus weak lower body strength simply by watching him perform a kata! A good teacher can learn a lot about the student just by watching a kata.
I'd venture to say that few people who witnessed Canna and Rabesa Sensei perform their 8th dan kata felt any need to see more in order to validate their skill.
According to Tomoyose Sensei, a student's physical power peaks with the godan rating. This rank should be a highmark in a student's advancement and their test should reflect this goal. The godan overall performance will not have the maturity, accuracy, timing and overall effectiveness of the master ranks. Because their test will focus on physical performance, the board will want to see everything.
For the master ranks, the board wants to see much more. They want to see everything the candidate has learned, expressed in three kata!
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GEM
I'd venture to say that few people who witnessed Canna and Rabesa Sensei perform their 8th dan kata felt any need to see more in order to validate their skill.
According to Tomoyose Sensei, a student's physical power peaks with the godan rating. This rank should be a highmark in a student's advancement and their test should reflect this goal. The godan overall performance will not have the maturity, accuracy, timing and overall effectiveness of the master ranks. Because their test will focus on physical performance, the board will want to see everything.
For the master ranks, the board wants to see much more. They want to see everything the candidate has learned, expressed in three kata!
------------------
GEM
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Bill Glasheen
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
I have really enjoyed this thread, and am very happy that George and Van have weighed in with their experience, along with a bevy of others who I respect so much.
I must admit that I have mixed feelings on all this. As David has stated, several of us had some interesting discussions on this in the "hard soft" thread earlier.
What is it - in my brief 26 years of practice of sanchin and 28 years of karate - that I look for in sanchin kata and my practice of it? If I can put it in one word, it would be the following - adaptability.
I have made allusions to my experiences with a certain training partner (and friend) who is literally twice my body weight. Now I am not a small person; I'm just not NFL lineman size. This fellow I work with offers me the opportunity to deal with an extreme. I have relished these various opportunities in my life, as they give me a chance to see "what if..." So Tony and I beat the *%$# out of each other (as much as I can take) when we do kote and ashi kitae. But I have learned the hard way (pun intended) that it is stupid for me to be hard against an immovable force. When SUV meets VW beetle, it's better to avoid the collision.
The problem with an obsession with hard testing is that it reinforces bad habits. If you spend all your years fighting tournaments where you stay within your weight class, you may never understand this. Now sometimes you may want to take a hit or even have a person "bounce" off of you because you can. But sooner or later you will meet someone - probably on the street - with whom this is a very bad idea. IF you obsess with hard testing in your sanchin, you will likely respond that way when you fight. As long as you fight people your weight or smaller, no problem. Heaven help you when you try that on the big guy. And heaven help you the day you face anyone - even a child - brandishing a knife. Or...maybe you never try to fight people bigger than you. It is possible. Just look at the success of the 170 pound Royce Gracie.
Look...I like to take a hit now and then. Yes, it feels good.
Hi, my name is Bill Glasheen and I like to take a hit.
Hi Bill!
I and others like me are endorphin junkies. It's like folks who enjoy eating hot sauces. You either identify or you don't. And to some on the outside, they may be very impressed. But...I don't do it to impress people. I engage in the activity to push myself (at my own personal pace) to a place I want to be. But I am constantly battling the bad habits that this pounding creates in my freeform movement. So, I guess I can understand why the practice exists. Personally I believe there is a place for it in training, but I highly object to it occupying a high-profile part of the sanchin experience.
In my dojo, we engage in separate conditioning exercises, but the sanchin "test" is a very individualized experience with specific ends intended for each and every action of the test. I'm trying to develop my students, not beat the snot out of them. To me, heaving pounding is only to be engaged when both individuals are giving and receiving at the same time. Any other experience is hazing, and has no place in our karate.
I hate to use the term "hard" and "soft" when I test a student. I don't know what the heck someone from the outside would label it. I have to admit (especially listening to part of the dialogue above) that even some of what folks would call "soft" testing is ponderous and pointless. I do know some would look and smugly think that I'm not testing "hard" enough. But then I'm certain I could take many such individuals and uproot them - at the level of their center - with a single finger. Now what does that tell you? And I know that some who like "soft" testing would not understand much of what I do (I'm not talking about the senior-seniors here). Now what does that tell you?
In the end, I hate the word "test". I think "check" is a better word. But "check" should not be a euphemism for hazing.
- Bill
I must admit that I have mixed feelings on all this. As David has stated, several of us had some interesting discussions on this in the "hard soft" thread earlier.
What is it - in my brief 26 years of practice of sanchin and 28 years of karate - that I look for in sanchin kata and my practice of it? If I can put it in one word, it would be the following - adaptability.
I have made allusions to my experiences with a certain training partner (and friend) who is literally twice my body weight. Now I am not a small person; I'm just not NFL lineman size. This fellow I work with offers me the opportunity to deal with an extreme. I have relished these various opportunities in my life, as they give me a chance to see "what if..." So Tony and I beat the *%$# out of each other (as much as I can take) when we do kote and ashi kitae. But I have learned the hard way (pun intended) that it is stupid for me to be hard against an immovable force. When SUV meets VW beetle, it's better to avoid the collision.
The problem with an obsession with hard testing is that it reinforces bad habits. If you spend all your years fighting tournaments where you stay within your weight class, you may never understand this. Now sometimes you may want to take a hit or even have a person "bounce" off of you because you can. But sooner or later you will meet someone - probably on the street - with whom this is a very bad idea. IF you obsess with hard testing in your sanchin, you will likely respond that way when you fight. As long as you fight people your weight or smaller, no problem. Heaven help you when you try that on the big guy. And heaven help you the day you face anyone - even a child - brandishing a knife. Or...maybe you never try to fight people bigger than you. It is possible. Just look at the success of the 170 pound Royce Gracie.
Look...I like to take a hit now and then. Yes, it feels good.
Hi, my name is Bill Glasheen and I like to take a hit.
Hi Bill!
I and others like me are endorphin junkies. It's like folks who enjoy eating hot sauces. You either identify or you don't. And to some on the outside, they may be very impressed. But...I don't do it to impress people. I engage in the activity to push myself (at my own personal pace) to a place I want to be. But I am constantly battling the bad habits that this pounding creates in my freeform movement. So, I guess I can understand why the practice exists. Personally I believe there is a place for it in training, but I highly object to it occupying a high-profile part of the sanchin experience.
In my dojo, we engage in separate conditioning exercises, but the sanchin "test" is a very individualized experience with specific ends intended for each and every action of the test. I'm trying to develop my students, not beat the snot out of them. To me, heaving pounding is only to be engaged when both individuals are giving and receiving at the same time. Any other experience is hazing, and has no place in our karate.
I hate to use the term "hard" and "soft" when I test a student. I don't know what the heck someone from the outside would label it. I have to admit (especially listening to part of the dialogue above) that even some of what folks would call "soft" testing is ponderous and pointless. I do know some would look and smugly think that I'm not testing "hard" enough. But then I'm certain I could take many such individuals and uproot them - at the level of their center - with a single finger. Now what does that tell you? And I know that some who like "soft" testing would not understand much of what I do (I'm not talking about the senior-seniors here). Now what does that tell you?
In the end, I hate the word "test". I think "check" is a better word. But "check" should not be a euphemism for hazing.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Those among you who are newer to Uechi and may not understand what one is attempting to accomplish with sanchin might benefit by studying the art of sword-making and iaido.
The katana (the blade of a "samurai" sword), must be carefully crafted to achieve the desired end. The core of the katana is soft steel that is folded again and again to create a kind of layering that gives it pliable strength with no weak spots. But this core steel is soft. The very edge of one side of the sword is tempered to make it hard. The tempered layer is extremely thin. It is just thick enough to make it possible to create an edge that can withstand the cuts.
* A sword that is all soft steel will not be able to cut as its edge will not hold and it will damage on inpact.
* A sword that is all hard steel will be too brittle and will break upon use.
* The best made sword is only hard on one edge. A single blow to the side of a well-made katana will break it in half.
* The swordsman spends a lifetime learning proper use of the katana. This use encompases fluid movement. A swordsman never blocks an opponent's katana with a "hard" block of his own sword. The result would be two damaged blades.
Study the art of making and using swords, and you will understand the art of sanchin. Now...how would you "check" a blade to know it is worthy of use? Think about it.
- Bill
The katana (the blade of a "samurai" sword), must be carefully crafted to achieve the desired end. The core of the katana is soft steel that is folded again and again to create a kind of layering that gives it pliable strength with no weak spots. But this core steel is soft. The very edge of one side of the sword is tempered to make it hard. The tempered layer is extremely thin. It is just thick enough to make it possible to create an edge that can withstand the cuts.
* A sword that is all soft steel will not be able to cut as its edge will not hold and it will damage on inpact.
* A sword that is all hard steel will be too brittle and will break upon use.
* The best made sword is only hard on one edge. A single blow to the side of a well-made katana will break it in half.
* The swordsman spends a lifetime learning proper use of the katana. This use encompases fluid movement. A swordsman never blocks an opponent's katana with a "hard" block of his own sword. The result would be two damaged blades.
Study the art of making and using swords, and you will understand the art of sanchin. Now...how would you "check" a blade to know it is worthy of use? Think about it.
- Bill
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paul giella
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
I have received hard tests and I have recieved soft, probing tests and I have recieved combinations... I think I have learned something from all of them. Too many hard tests would make me "gun shy", and teach me an involuntary flinch. Too many soft tests would allow me to slack off sometimes... I need to know that I've got to be prepared for at least one or two moderately sharp blows. But not a merciles beating! I have written about this in my Renshi thesis under the heading of "stress inoculation".
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Bill G. you make an excellant reference to the uechi concept of hard-soft by way of the "sword" making.
Having disscussed so much the physical testing of "sanchin" we might make reference as to what is looked for in the dan candidate "performance" aspects.
I believe Mike Murphy made a very good reference on th "Hard-soft in Uechiryu"
post.
"The body should be developed to harden and focus on that split second of extension or on the moment of impact. The rest of the body does the same thing. It remains loose and comfortable to the point where you need it."
"In order to collect strength for the technique, three things must occur: connection to the floor, thrusting motion with arms or legs, and using the hips to deliver the techniques."
Certainly if these principles are applied in ones "kata" demonstrating it would reflect good "ability" and understanding. How much of these principles should be expressed in ones performance, i believe should reflect in the rank.
Van, you ask how i would define ability ? Yes, that could be an opinionated definition however, a higher dan rank should possibly reflect those principle
in kata more so than a lower dan rank ?
How about the "acceleration" in the sanchin thrust along with the ripping waukee block ? Well centered, well focused throughout. Not rigid or rushed. How do we set standards of agreement as to the "levels" of expectation of abilities ? Certainly everyone is different and all can not stand up to the same expectations. A tough question of which i don't have the answer.
George: "The Godan overall performance will not have the maturity, accuracy, timing and overall effectivenss of the Master ranks. Because their test will focus on physical performance, the board will want to see everything ?"
Although i do not vote on Godans, i have not seen that rank tested on "everything" and although i do not vote at that level, i would like to see the level of performance for that rank and "Rokudan" to be made more demanding.
There are dan ranks who cannot block serious attacks of pre-aranged kumite. One cannot see that in kata alone. Let them demonstrate Dan Kumite and Seisan Bunkie one on one in view of all. If one cannot hold there own after 20yrs plus, let them come back again. Let there be "intent" to hit so that one must block !
6th dan. 1st master rank ! Do we feel that all other material in our system besides the "requirements" for rank have lesser value ? Possibly.
Van ask:
"what do you suggest ?" I might suggest that 5th dan due all that everyone else does and that the kumites be veiwed by all.
That conditioning be of "complete body" taken more seriously.
That Master Ranks require 6th dan candidates to go through the "entire" system for test, possibly adding an advanced "randori" style Kanshiwa bunkie, along with the other requirements.
That one show their ability to have, endurance, understanding and physical ability to display knowledge of all Kata and drills to qualify them as
"instructors".
That they be required to "fight" for two minutes. That they know the history and roots of the style.
The test ! Unlike the others. Very damanding, very hard. Leaving no question as to the meaning of "ability".
------------------
Gary S.
Having disscussed so much the physical testing of "sanchin" we might make reference as to what is looked for in the dan candidate "performance" aspects.
I believe Mike Murphy made a very good reference on th "Hard-soft in Uechiryu"
post.
"The body should be developed to harden and focus on that split second of extension or on the moment of impact. The rest of the body does the same thing. It remains loose and comfortable to the point where you need it."
"In order to collect strength for the technique, three things must occur: connection to the floor, thrusting motion with arms or legs, and using the hips to deliver the techniques."
Certainly if these principles are applied in ones "kata" demonstrating it would reflect good "ability" and understanding. How much of these principles should be expressed in ones performance, i believe should reflect in the rank.
Van, you ask how i would define ability ? Yes, that could be an opinionated definition however, a higher dan rank should possibly reflect those principle
in kata more so than a lower dan rank ?
How about the "acceleration" in the sanchin thrust along with the ripping waukee block ? Well centered, well focused throughout. Not rigid or rushed. How do we set standards of agreement as to the "levels" of expectation of abilities ? Certainly everyone is different and all can not stand up to the same expectations. A tough question of which i don't have the answer.
George: "The Godan overall performance will not have the maturity, accuracy, timing and overall effectivenss of the Master ranks. Because their test will focus on physical performance, the board will want to see everything ?"
Although i do not vote on Godans, i have not seen that rank tested on "everything" and although i do not vote at that level, i would like to see the level of performance for that rank and "Rokudan" to be made more demanding.
There are dan ranks who cannot block serious attacks of pre-aranged kumite. One cannot see that in kata alone. Let them demonstrate Dan Kumite and Seisan Bunkie one on one in view of all. If one cannot hold there own after 20yrs plus, let them come back again. Let there be "intent" to hit so that one must block !
6th dan. 1st master rank ! Do we feel that all other material in our system besides the "requirements" for rank have lesser value ? Possibly.
Van ask:
"what do you suggest ?" I might suggest that 5th dan due all that everyone else does and that the kumites be veiwed by all.
That conditioning be of "complete body" taken more seriously.
That Master Ranks require 6th dan candidates to go through the "entire" system for test, possibly adding an advanced "randori" style Kanshiwa bunkie, along with the other requirements.
That one show their ability to have, endurance, understanding and physical ability to display knowledge of all Kata and drills to qualify them as
"instructors".
That they be required to "fight" for two minutes. That they know the history and roots of the style.
The test ! Unlike the others. Very damanding, very hard. Leaving no question as to the meaning of "ability".
------------------
Gary S.
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
I would add to my previous post that my reasoning for feeling that the entire system should be viewed for 6th dan is that as many know, while many get into senior level ranks,they focus only on advanced kata and bunkie.
Although, that may be all one needs to be effecient in a sense, how does it reflect when a 4th, 5th or 6th dan does not remember basic or intermediate level material ? Ever been in a class when a senior struggles with Kumite one or Kanshiwa bunkie or other green belt/brown belt material for lack of practice?
We tend to assume that these people know the entire system but never is anyone put to that test. Just a thought. Timming, distance and responce to attack seem to be somewhat different when somone is coming at you than in kata alone.
I agree with the suggestion by one that if someone as Van, Arttur R. or George was to view ones requirements of Dan kumite and Seisan Bunkie that would be sufficient in itself . No argument there!
------------------
Gary S.
Although, that may be all one needs to be effecient in a sense, how does it reflect when a 4th, 5th or 6th dan does not remember basic or intermediate level material ? Ever been in a class when a senior struggles with Kumite one or Kanshiwa bunkie or other green belt/brown belt material for lack of practice?
We tend to assume that these people know the entire system but never is anyone put to that test. Just a thought. Timming, distance and responce to attack seem to be somewhat different when somone is coming at you than in kata alone.
I agree with the suggestion by one that if someone as Van, Arttur R. or George was to view ones requirements of Dan kumite and Seisan Bunkie that would be sufficient in itself . No argument there!
------------------
Gary S.
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Bill Glasheen
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Gary
In most cases, the only reason why someone going for 6th degree would not know material like the kumites and the bunkais cold is because the system failed. In the very early days, it is theoretically possible that those in charge were not tested as rigorously or systematically as they are today because of logistical concerns (there was nobody in the U.S. or wherever to test them). Perhaps the true recognition that was given in promotions was the leadership that created what we benefit from today. But in a pefect world, those in charge should have either expected more, or done what was necessary to see that such seniors were brought up to standards.
But here is a thought to challenger you. What of an Okinawan master who has been around forever and does not see merit in "the new stuff". I know of at least one whom everyone reveres that probably couldn't do a lot more than "the big three". But...these are extreme examples.
In the end, your points have merit. Uechiryu is common enough and our collective expertise is adequate enough that we should be able to set minimum standards for people of all ranks - and expect that people live by them. I think there may be points of disagreement among some. I'm not sure that I would expect a 70-year-old going up for 8th degree to spar; some would suggest that they should. This does not address physiologic realities, nor does it recongize the value that the 70-year-old could bring to an organization as a wise leader and mentor. But we should expect that individual to demonstrate that value in whatever way is appropriate. Give the rank to someone in a wheelchair suffering from MS, but (s)he should be able to talk a new student through dan kumite.
As I have stated before, Gary, I have been a judge on a dan promotional where a highly ranked set of candidates didn't think they would have to do anything more than "the big three". When they were asked to do kumite and bunkai, everyone was embarrassed. If these individuals were actively teaching Uechiryu as we know it, this should never have happened. It was a wake-up call, and I am confident from the last test I viewed that procedures were put in place to address this. But I believe there is value in people like yourself demanding more.
- Bill
In most cases, the only reason why someone going for 6th degree would not know material like the kumites and the bunkais cold is because the system failed. In the very early days, it is theoretically possible that those in charge were not tested as rigorously or systematically as they are today because of logistical concerns (there was nobody in the U.S. or wherever to test them). Perhaps the true recognition that was given in promotions was the leadership that created what we benefit from today. But in a pefect world, those in charge should have either expected more, or done what was necessary to see that such seniors were brought up to standards.
But here is a thought to challenger you. What of an Okinawan master who has been around forever and does not see merit in "the new stuff". I know of at least one whom everyone reveres that probably couldn't do a lot more than "the big three". But...these are extreme examples.
In the end, your points have merit. Uechiryu is common enough and our collective expertise is adequate enough that we should be able to set minimum standards for people of all ranks - and expect that people live by them. I think there may be points of disagreement among some. I'm not sure that I would expect a 70-year-old going up for 8th degree to spar; some would suggest that they should. This does not address physiologic realities, nor does it recongize the value that the 70-year-old could bring to an organization as a wise leader and mentor. But we should expect that individual to demonstrate that value in whatever way is appropriate. Give the rank to someone in a wheelchair suffering from MS, but (s)he should be able to talk a new student through dan kumite.
As I have stated before, Gary, I have been a judge on a dan promotional where a highly ranked set of candidates didn't think they would have to do anything more than "the big three". When they were asked to do kumite and bunkai, everyone was embarrassed. If these individuals were actively teaching Uechiryu as we know it, this should never have happened. It was a wake-up call, and I am confident from the last test I viewed that procedures were put in place to address this. But I believe there is value in people like yourself demanding more.
- Bill
Dan Test "Sanchin"
Afternoon,
Very interesting thread. First off, Gary I applaud for asking these questions again. Yes, again. They seem to always crop up. It shows that you really care.
The issue with rank and testing is rank itself. I have always stated that just because you go to MIT for 4,6,8,10 years doesn't mean that you will/should end up with a PhD. Lots of good people do not get past bachelor for whatever reason and yet they are competent and contribute to the whole (some might argue more than the PhDs). Just because you attend the dojo, work hard and study hard for ten years does that mean you should be a Sandan? This is what is at the heart of the rank/testing issues. What is meant by black belt! Until one can put down an objective criteria, without (or at least quantified)exceptions, then I cannot see how you could have an objective test. Thus the test is subjective. Having said that the rest is implementation. I don't have any answers and after 26 years see the animal for what it is. It all gets down to what the peer group (dojo or teacher) will accept/set as a level of proficiency. That dan level person has to wear the belt. I wish it was this simple but sadly it is not...even this seems to much for most....wedding, funerals and black belt test seem to bring out the worst in people...
on conditioning...
People come into and stay in a dojo for different reasons. It is neccessary to be able to style flex the concepts of Uechi to benefit all or least most. In the realm of fighting (tourney, street whatever) hard conditioning is (IMHO) an extremely valuable TOOL. As with all tools it depends on the user and what you are trying to build. Most people pratice conditioning incorrectly for to long, as Van Canna says, "holding on to the myth of invulnerability" (I think he spelled it correctly though). Here is a great demo. Take a strong student and pound him/her in the abs. Next, instead of pounding him/her, hit her quickly 2 or 3 times lightly in the abs. Most will stagger. Now have them close their eyes and perform the same strikes. This time they won't move. (your eyes will always lie to you!!)
Most practice conditioning to 'freeze up' on the moment of impact, not incorporating conditioning into their overall curriculum. Our dojo practices a set of tap-bang drills once the student gets confident in basic conditioning. The purpose of the tap bangs are to able to move, strike, be comfortable off of the strike...not original... just visit a good boxing gym. We also incorporate the tap bangs from grabbing positions belly to belly. By practicing this way the practitioner will build up a target based system (one built upon striking a target vs. block counter) that has a strong, aggressive mindset. It is one thing to hit a bag but another to hit a strong moving fighting target...that is why none of our gi's have "Everlast" printed on the sides I guess
later
Very interesting thread. First off, Gary I applaud for asking these questions again. Yes, again. They seem to always crop up. It shows that you really care.
The issue with rank and testing is rank itself. I have always stated that just because you go to MIT for 4,6,8,10 years doesn't mean that you will/should end up with a PhD. Lots of good people do not get past bachelor for whatever reason and yet they are competent and contribute to the whole (some might argue more than the PhDs). Just because you attend the dojo, work hard and study hard for ten years does that mean you should be a Sandan? This is what is at the heart of the rank/testing issues. What is meant by black belt! Until one can put down an objective criteria, without (or at least quantified)exceptions, then I cannot see how you could have an objective test. Thus the test is subjective. Having said that the rest is implementation. I don't have any answers and after 26 years see the animal for what it is. It all gets down to what the peer group (dojo or teacher) will accept/set as a level of proficiency. That dan level person has to wear the belt. I wish it was this simple but sadly it is not...even this seems to much for most....wedding, funerals and black belt test seem to bring out the worst in people...
on conditioning...
People come into and stay in a dojo for different reasons. It is neccessary to be able to style flex the concepts of Uechi to benefit all or least most. In the realm of fighting (tourney, street whatever) hard conditioning is (IMHO) an extremely valuable TOOL. As with all tools it depends on the user and what you are trying to build. Most people pratice conditioning incorrectly for to long, as Van Canna says, "holding on to the myth of invulnerability" (I think he spelled it correctly though). Here is a great demo. Take a strong student and pound him/her in the abs. Next, instead of pounding him/her, hit her quickly 2 or 3 times lightly in the abs. Most will stagger. Now have them close their eyes and perform the same strikes. This time they won't move. (your eyes will always lie to you!!)
Most practice conditioning to 'freeze up' on the moment of impact, not incorporating conditioning into their overall curriculum. Our dojo practices a set of tap-bang drills once the student gets confident in basic conditioning. The purpose of the tap bangs are to able to move, strike, be comfortable off of the strike...not original... just visit a good boxing gym. We also incorporate the tap bangs from grabbing positions belly to belly. By practicing this way the practitioner will build up a target based system (one built upon striking a target vs. block counter) that has a strong, aggressive mindset. It is one thing to hit a bag but another to hit a strong moving fighting target...that is why none of our gi's have "Everlast" printed on the sides I guess
later
