To all,
Although there was some very good competition today in the "Uechi-Ryu Championships" and i was glad to be involved in helping out, i know that many dojo's could have supported this event simply by suggesting to students there participation.
It is unfortnate that so many choose to put up walls between groups and organizations simply because of personal, political or financial reasons. With all of the Uechiryu schools in the New England area surely more could involve themselves in this once a year event.
Everyone stays in their own "cacoons" as i have heard before from some:
"I don't have to go anywhere else for anything. I get all that i need from my sensei."
How rediculous that one would not encourage others to experience more "comradity" with others from other groups whereas to gain respect of others for fighting different unkown people in unkown territory. Or to perform kata under pressure that cannot be duplicated in ones own dojo.
There is a feeling of accomplishment by "placing" in a divsion both of adults and chidren alike that helps builds ones self esteam and confidence. Surely not still for us whom have been there and done that.
To discourage others from participating in open regional workouts, competitions, summer camp and other functions is not doing students any justice. For i have personaly met over the past two years at least 6 respectable instructors/seniors and many practicioners that are willing to accept others as guest and visitors regardless of where you may come from.
It is unfortunte for those who cut themselves off from others for whatever reasons. It does not have to be that way.
------------------
Gary S.
Supporting "Uechi" events
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Gary Santaniello
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Scott Danziger
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Then that's their loss. What seems more unfortunate is that students must have a God complex of their senseis if they believe every word from them is law.
I think it would be safe to say tht if sensei A told his students not to go to the function sponsered or attended by sensei B, then there would be few if any of sensei A's students there.
How sad.
Fortunatly though, with the internet, there is a more free way to exchange ideas and side step barriers that exist even today. But not everyone is there yet. And, if word or knowlege got out that someone dared to "cross the line", would there be repercussions? Does that kind of crap still exist today?
Scott
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I think it would be safe to say tht if sensei A told his students not to go to the function sponsered or attended by sensei B, then there would be few if any of sensei A's students there.
How sad.
Fortunatly though, with the internet, there is a more free way to exchange ideas and side step barriers that exist even today. But not everyone is there yet. And, if word or knowlege got out that someone dared to "cross the line", would there be repercussions? Does that kind of crap still exist today?
Scott
------------------
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Bill Glasheen
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Is the bear Catholic?
Do popes poop in the woods?
Do popes poop in the woods?
Supporting "Uechi" events
Hi guys,
Sorry to hear about the poor turnout. Why do you think you can not attract more students?
It sounds like New England Uechi-Ryu must have effectivly "boycotted" the event. Pretty extreme!, no? What would drive folks to such an extreme?
Sorry to hear about the poor turnout. Why do you think you can not attract more students?
It sounds like New England Uechi-Ryu must have effectivly "boycotted" the event. Pretty extreme!, no? What would drive folks to such an extreme?
Supporting "Uechi" events
Well, in my tiny dojo out in the middle of the midwest... Just about nobody's interested in competitions. Though probably a few, like me, get an inkling every once in awhile that they want to get involved in a combat situation. I'm talking about pretty much real one though, maybe something more akin to a NHB event. And of course, if I gave it much thought, I would only get into those because of the large amount of money available for winning.
Adam
The lowly white belt
Adam
The lowly white belt
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Gary Santaniello
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Billy,
I do not recall stating that it was a "bad" turnout. Only that with all the uechi folk in New England, it could be better ?
Surely there is some "boycotting" going on for personal reasons amoung the groups/people. Political, fnancial and otherwise.
One thing that i feel may effect the turnout is the fact that most organizations generally have their Dan Testing on the day after ! Not a controllable situation as the "New England Nationals" are always on that saturday before the "Testing Day".
If i were tesing for Dan Rank on Sunday,
i would not be spending the day before competing. Especially in fighting. That must effect some of the Black Belt participation. Plus for board members and seniors, it makes for a long hard two day weekend that most enjoy some time of leisure.
Also, the judging is an issue. Who is judging who ? As a personal friend of mine said : would you feel comfortable at an event that was run and judged by a group that you do not belong to ?"
So the question of "impartial" judging comes up in that an "independent" group of officials come in. But the argument there is that they do not know "our" system. So how can they judge it ?
True, they may not know the "forms" correct series of movements. However, karate movements are fairly universal in their content.Are they not?
Power, speed, balance, spirit, focus,etc.
Although it is contreversial and debatable for some, as i am sure i will hear it from my peers, it may be a solution.
What is partial judgement ? Favoritism of those from ones own group over others ? Could be. Or could it also be that "we" are judging from our own personal preference of how we as "individuals" feel the perfect uechi kata should be, rather than seeing all the elements within the form ?
Example, judege "a" likes "power" over all other elements of kata. He/she votes accourdingly. Judge "b" like "speed" over all other elements of kata. Judge "c" looks only for "Spirit" in kata. Just using examples here. Who will win 1st. 2nd. and 3rd. place ? What about the good Form, concentration, balance etc that is not being looked at due to personal preferences of importance ? This i feel also contribute to being "impartial" does it not ?
------------------
Gary S.
I do not recall stating that it was a "bad" turnout. Only that with all the uechi folk in New England, it could be better ?
Surely there is some "boycotting" going on for personal reasons amoung the groups/people. Political, fnancial and otherwise.
One thing that i feel may effect the turnout is the fact that most organizations generally have their Dan Testing on the day after ! Not a controllable situation as the "New England Nationals" are always on that saturday before the "Testing Day".
If i were tesing for Dan Rank on Sunday,
i would not be spending the day before competing. Especially in fighting. That must effect some of the Black Belt participation. Plus for board members and seniors, it makes for a long hard two day weekend that most enjoy some time of leisure.
Also, the judging is an issue. Who is judging who ? As a personal friend of mine said : would you feel comfortable at an event that was run and judged by a group that you do not belong to ?"
So the question of "impartial" judging comes up in that an "independent" group of officials come in. But the argument there is that they do not know "our" system. So how can they judge it ?
True, they may not know the "forms" correct series of movements. However, karate movements are fairly universal in their content.Are they not?
Power, speed, balance, spirit, focus,etc.
Although it is contreversial and debatable for some, as i am sure i will hear it from my peers, it may be a solution.
What is partial judgement ? Favoritism of those from ones own group over others ? Could be. Or could it also be that "we" are judging from our own personal preference of how we as "individuals" feel the perfect uechi kata should be, rather than seeing all the elements within the form ?
Example, judege "a" likes "power" over all other elements of kata. He/she votes accourdingly. Judge "b" like "speed" over all other elements of kata. Judge "c" looks only for "Spirit" in kata. Just using examples here. Who will win 1st. 2nd. and 3rd. place ? What about the good Form, concentration, balance etc that is not being looked at due to personal preferences of importance ? This i feel also contribute to being "impartial" does it not ?
------------------
Gary S.
Supporting "Uechi" events
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Santaniello:
To all,
Although there was some very good competition today in the "Uechi-Ryu Championships" and i was glad to be involved in helping out, i know that many dojo's could have supported this event simply by suggesting to students there participation.
It is unfortnate that so many choose to put up walls between groups and organizations simply because of personal, political or financial reasons. With all of the Uechiryu schools in the New England area surely more could involve themselves in this once a year event.
Everyone stays in their own "cacoons".....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Gary,
I took the above to mean that you judged the turnout as poor. Sorry if I misinterpreted your meaning. I must admitt I am scratching my head here, wondering what I missed. Surely all things can be "better", thats what our martial arts journey is all about and something I think martial artists in general have a decent grasp of.
The thing is Gary, you have made some judgements/estimations above about how many folks showed up, and how many could have showed up under the "best" case scenario. You have also stated a possible reason why these "missing" folks were missing. That is what I was asking about.
Am I off base here?
To all,
Although there was some very good competition today in the "Uechi-Ryu Championships" and i was glad to be involved in helping out, i know that many dojo's could have supported this event simply by suggesting to students there participation.
It is unfortnate that so many choose to put up walls between groups and organizations simply because of personal, political or financial reasons. With all of the Uechiryu schools in the New England area surely more could involve themselves in this once a year event.
Everyone stays in their own "cacoons".....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Gary,
I took the above to mean that you judged the turnout as poor. Sorry if I misinterpreted your meaning. I must admitt I am scratching my head here, wondering what I missed. Surely all things can be "better", thats what our martial arts journey is all about and something I think martial artists in general have a decent grasp of.
The thing is Gary, you have made some judgements/estimations above about how many folks showed up, and how many could have showed up under the "best" case scenario. You have also stated a possible reason why these "missing" folks were missing. That is what I was asking about.
Am I off base here?
-
Gary Santaniello
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Bill,
Having been in Uechiryu for 25 years and knowing of all the dojo's around the area and having met so many hundreds of practicioners and instructors that once were "one group" that are now not, the participation could be greater than what it is. You did not misinterpet that general comment.
I only meant to clearify that those who did show up, made a good tournament and that the numbers could be greater. How, may be the question.
As i addresed a couple of issues that i feel effect it. Possibly some will respond to it.
These are "open forums" to any registered members who choose to opinionate their personal veiws, topics, and ideas. There are no restrictions against any particular groups, oranizations or styles. Only that no one be insulting to eachother.
Many groups choose not to involve themselves in these topics or other conversation as there may be "consequences" from it. Yes, it goes on.
People might question, why can't one go anywhere to workout and meet others ? N.A.C. does post publically "events" open to all. I frequently visit a friend (dojo) of O.K.K. and there is "no problem" however, i see and hear of no "public or open" invitations from any other groups.
Possibly the hostility remains from the "higher" seniors that have gone their own ways. Effecting the "unification" and/or "comradity" of the lower ranks.
It is unfortunate, but it exsist.
------------------
Gary S.
Having been in Uechiryu for 25 years and knowing of all the dojo's around the area and having met so many hundreds of practicioners and instructors that once were "one group" that are now not, the participation could be greater than what it is. You did not misinterpet that general comment.
I only meant to clearify that those who did show up, made a good tournament and that the numbers could be greater. How, may be the question.
As i addresed a couple of issues that i feel effect it. Possibly some will respond to it.
These are "open forums" to any registered members who choose to opinionate their personal veiws, topics, and ideas. There are no restrictions against any particular groups, oranizations or styles. Only that no one be insulting to eachother.
Many groups choose not to involve themselves in these topics or other conversation as there may be "consequences" from it. Yes, it goes on.
People might question, why can't one go anywhere to workout and meet others ? N.A.C. does post publically "events" open to all. I frequently visit a friend (dojo) of O.K.K. and there is "no problem" however, i see and hear of no "public or open" invitations from any other groups.
Possibly the hostility remains from the "higher" seniors that have gone their own ways. Effecting the "unification" and/or "comradity" of the lower ranks.
It is unfortunate, but it exsist.
------------------
Gary S.
Supporting "Uechi" events
GARY
You stated
Surely there is some "boycotting" going on for personal reasons amoung the groups/people. Political, financial and otherwise.
I find this hard to believe. I do not know of anyone who specifically told their students to "boycott" the tournament.
I posted the tournament information newspaper on a postboard in my dojo, and also created links on my website. I encouraged my students to go and watch if they did not want to compete. I could not attend because I have a class on Saturday and could not get a replacement teacher.
As for the poor turn out in the Heavyweight Blackbelt Division, (of which I assume you are speaking about)it shows to me the respect and admiration for the abilities of three time consecutive champion Gary Khoury.
[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited May 25, 2000).]
You stated
Surely there is some "boycotting" going on for personal reasons amoung the groups/people. Political, financial and otherwise.
I find this hard to believe. I do not know of anyone who specifically told their students to "boycott" the tournament.
I posted the tournament information newspaper on a postboard in my dojo, and also created links on my website. I encouraged my students to go and watch if they did not want to compete. I could not attend because I have a class on Saturday and could not get a replacement teacher.
As for the poor turn out in the Heavyweight Blackbelt Division, (of which I assume you are speaking about)it shows to me the respect and admiration for the abilities of three time consecutive champion Gary Khoury.
[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited May 25, 2000).]
Supporting "Uechi" events
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Santaniello:
For there are many groups of people and schools around that although would not "boycott" an event, simply would not "encourage" participation simply by not suggestion, or recomending participation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why would Senseis do this in general, and why would they do it specific to this event?? This is not a rhetorical question! There MUST be reasons. Are we going to discuss them? Otherwise, why even adress the issue?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I have heard from some the attitiude that "i need not go anywhere, for i get all i need from m sensei" Hmmm!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Needs are personal. Whats the big deal? Lots of folks could benefit from lots of different experiences, but ultimately we must all CHOOSE experiences for ourselves. Who's to say this tournament is more important than a workout on the heavy bag, babysitting the kids, or working overtime to pay for that special trip to Fukein province?
If you want more turnout, you simply have to consider these issues - in order to advrtise the event properly and stir up interest. You need to make this tournament seem more important than the alternatives. Was that accomplished? If not, why? Should we blame certain Senseis for not "encouraging" participation in this event? Whose responsibility is it to promote this tournament? Seems to me that responsibilty lies soley with the promoter! (The guy who collects the $cash$)
For there are many groups of people and schools around that although would not "boycott" an event, simply would not "encourage" participation simply by not suggestion, or recomending participation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why would Senseis do this in general, and why would they do it specific to this event?? This is not a rhetorical question! There MUST be reasons. Are we going to discuss them? Otherwise, why even adress the issue?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I have heard from some the attitiude that "i need not go anywhere, for i get all i need from m sensei" Hmmm!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Needs are personal. Whats the big deal? Lots of folks could benefit from lots of different experiences, but ultimately we must all CHOOSE experiences for ourselves. Who's to say this tournament is more important than a workout on the heavy bag, babysitting the kids, or working overtime to pay for that special trip to Fukein province?
If you want more turnout, you simply have to consider these issues - in order to advrtise the event properly and stir up interest. You need to make this tournament seem more important than the alternatives. Was that accomplished? If not, why? Should we blame certain Senseis for not "encouraging" participation in this event? Whose responsibility is it to promote this tournament? Seems to me that responsibilty lies soley with the promoter! (The guy who collects the $cash$)
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Gary Santaniello
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Billy B.
With all due respect i believe that i have outlined some possibilities of influence such as Dan Testing the following day, the feeling that some groups that are not of the promoting affair may feel that partial judging would not show fairness.
I also mention the personalities, ego's, political and financial as merely exsisting elements.
I intend not to get ino a pissing contest as to "who's" fault it is for that will always be a matter of opinion.
I believe that i addressed some of the issues that might of influenced participation or lack of.
If you will note my post: Supporting "uechi" events. Not supporting "Uechi Championships. You make a valid point in that it should be an "individuals" decission or choice to participate in what they feel is relevent to them.
However, if you really believe that there is no "influence" either possitive or negative from groups, organizations or sensei's, i have a nice bridge for sale in New York.
As i will continue "my" training either way. With or without "unification" of the "Big Guns"!
Thank you for you comments.
------------------
Gary S.
With all due respect i believe that i have outlined some possibilities of influence such as Dan Testing the following day, the feeling that some groups that are not of the promoting affair may feel that partial judging would not show fairness.
I also mention the personalities, ego's, political and financial as merely exsisting elements.
I intend not to get ino a pissing contest as to "who's" fault it is for that will always be a matter of opinion.
I believe that i addressed some of the issues that might of influenced participation or lack of.
If you will note my post: Supporting "uechi" events. Not supporting "Uechi Championships. You make a valid point in that it should be an "individuals" decission or choice to participate in what they feel is relevent to them.
However, if you really believe that there is no "influence" either possitive or negative from groups, organizations or sensei's, i have a nice bridge for sale in New York.
As i will continue "my" training either way. With or without "unification" of the "Big Guns"!
Thank you for you comments.
------------------
Gary S.
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Bill Glasheen
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Len wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
- Bill Just for Men G.
What??? People don't compete in HW BB because they "respect" Gary too much? Maybe us old farts will have to come out of retirement to give Gary some fresh meat to chew on. I guess I'll have to grab my cane and go visit Raffi The Grecian Guy D. for a conference.As for the poor turn out in the Heavyweight Blackbelt Division, (of which I assume you are speaking about)it shows to me the respect and admiration for the abilities of three time consecutive champion Gary Khoury.
- Bill Just for Men G.
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Scott Danziger
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Here's some ideas I'd like to throw at ya's...
Question of turnout...
How about a personal invite to the senior instructors of other Uechi based organizations and ask them if they and their students would be interested in, and would like to compete in the tournament.
Question of judging...
For all judging other than fighting, ask the same senior instructors if they would like to help with the judging so there could be an even balance of organizations represented in each ring. Can you get more fair?
If all goes well and the seniors of as many organizations as you can contact can agree to come to the event/tournament, ask them for their input for future events.
Just some thoughts.
Scott
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Question of turnout...
How about a personal invite to the senior instructors of other Uechi based organizations and ask them if they and their students would be interested in, and would like to compete in the tournament.
Question of judging...
For all judging other than fighting, ask the same senior instructors if they would like to help with the judging so there could be an even balance of organizations represented in each ring. Can you get more fair?
If all goes well and the seniors of as many organizations as you can contact can agree to come to the event/tournament, ask them for their input for future events.
Just some thoughts.
Scott
------------------
Uechi-Ryu.Com Streaming Video & Audio
The Uechi-Ryu.Com Hotlist
Taking Charge - Cable TV & Video Martial Arts Show
Martial Arts Of Long Island
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Gary Santaniello
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Scott,
Those are great suggestions. I think the idea's you stated are the best so far.
Now, who do we get to play "politician" in trying to get everyone to put aside their differences ? As you mention, the "seniors" are the ones who have to involve themselves and their students in "events" that could be run by "anyone".
So on one event, N.A.C. makes a couple of $$$. On another O.K.K. and on another an independent group not affiliated to each other. All could offer "workshops" with various instructors and seniors. Such as we have at our Regional Workouts.
All would have to be willing to accept the "differences" of instrucors as not all have the same veiws of karate application.
That might conflict with some in that attitude that "we" don't do it that way, they are wrong. There is only one way to practice concept.
So Scott are you up for the job ? (just kidding). Although someone would have to approach it and get the final verdict from all the Big Guns. Although my honest feeling is that i think it is beyond repair, yet possibly worth an effort.
Good suggestions.
------------------
Gary S.
Those are great suggestions. I think the idea's you stated are the best so far.
Now, who do we get to play "politician" in trying to get everyone to put aside their differences ? As you mention, the "seniors" are the ones who have to involve themselves and their students in "events" that could be run by "anyone".
So on one event, N.A.C. makes a couple of $$$. On another O.K.K. and on another an independent group not affiliated to each other. All could offer "workshops" with various instructors and seniors. Such as we have at our Regional Workouts.
All would have to be willing to accept the "differences" of instrucors as not all have the same veiws of karate application.
That might conflict with some in that attitude that "we" don't do it that way, they are wrong. There is only one way to practice concept.
So Scott are you up for the job ? (just kidding). Although someone would have to approach it and get the final verdict from all the Big Guns. Although my honest feeling is that i think it is beyond repair, yet possibly worth an effort.
Good suggestions.
------------------
Gary S.
-
Gary Santaniello
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Supporting "Uechi" events
Lenny,
I was not implying that "you" did not post it or was unable to attend for other reasons.
You may find my statements hard to "accept" or believe. So many would deny the realities of it all.
For there are many groups of people and schools around that although would not "boycott" an event, simply would not "encourage" participation simply by not suggestion, or recomending participation.
I have heard from some the attitiude that "i need not go anywhere, for i get all i need from m sensei" Hmmmm!
Lenny, no disrespect intended here but, there is much you are not aware of in that you have been within one group of people for so long that "exposure" to many personal, political and financial problems are unkown to you.
As it need not be discussed beyond that "publically". But trust me , people are only human and the same destructive elements as society contains, finds it way into the arts.
Unfortunate, but true !
------------------
Gary S.
I was not implying that "you" did not post it or was unable to attend for other reasons.
You may find my statements hard to "accept" or believe. So many would deny the realities of it all.
For there are many groups of people and schools around that although would not "boycott" an event, simply would not "encourage" participation simply by not suggestion, or recomending participation.
I have heard from some the attitiude that "i need not go anywhere, for i get all i need from m sensei" Hmmmm!
Lenny, no disrespect intended here but, there is much you are not aware of in that you have been within one group of people for so long that "exposure" to many personal, political and financial problems are unkown to you.
As it need not be discussed beyond that "publically". But trust me , people are only human and the same destructive elements as society contains, finds it way into the arts.
Unfortunate, but true !
------------------
Gary S.
