Supporting "Uechi" events

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LenTesta
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by LenTesta »

Gary:
Your statements are noted and I assumed that you did not mean "me" personally when you first posted this topic. I was trying to bring some ideas to the topic only.

Yes, tournaments are not for everyone. Even a lot of excellant baseball players that I have known and played with, do not attend the tournaments. We have a National Tournament in Arizona every year in on the last week of October and I have attended eight times in the last ten years. It can be very expensive and the competition is the best (for this level of Baseball) in the WORLD. We have never WON the whole thing as representatives from the Boston area, but we came close many times. We were deemed unsuccessful because there was much pressure put on us "all stars" to perform well. We were not bad, we just did not WIN IT ALL.

I was mostly refering to "tournament fighting" and not tournament kata and kumite.
Performing Kata in tournaments is more preffered by me. I think all students should experience it at least once in their training. The same argument could be made for fighting, but I have been there and I have done that, when I was in my late 20's, and I have no desire to try it at this level that I am at now.

The movements that I was referring to in Sanseiryu can not be performed in tournaments. They involve the elbow and knee strikes. ELBOWING AND KNEEING are not allowed in tournament fighting. The movement after the first mawate turn for instance. Secondly, I do not attack. I react to an attack. That is how I train. It would be a very boring fight if I never initiated the attack in a tournament, but that is how I have been injured before. Sure, in the dojo you must attack to teach the other person how to defend and counterattack. But in the dojo while I am "sparring" with a student. I use movements that are one step ahead of that students abilities. I can not bring them up to my level, but I can "get down to" and stay slightly ahead of their level. What would I be teaching my students if I only let them attack me, as I performed the movements of katas that they can't even perceive. When "sparring" at or slighly above their level, I am at a disvantage because I am not allowed to perform the movemnts that I want. This is where I get mostly injured. This why tournament fighting is not for me. (Please do not interperate these statements as a deterrent to tournament fighting, EVERY Martial Artist should AT LEAST try it ONCE in their training. It is a good way to test the "chemical cocktail", which sometimes work for you, or against you!)

One thing you wrote has me concerned!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Regarding non-competitors for "respect" ? Surely there is "fear" for some to go against Gary K. and Jeo P.but do not think that Steve Perry or Bob Spoon or the others are any less to "fear". For they also will put one down abruptly.
If the heavyweight division was not fully participated, I do not think it was "fear" of Gary and Joe or any other competetor, that was the main reason. I would certainly hope that any DAN RANK in Uechi-ryu would not be "afraid" to compete. I only stated that some may have lacked the proper training/motivation to condition themselves for this tournament. You play by a different set of rules therefore you must train under those rules. They might not have had the time or desire to get to that level.

As for supporting other Uechi Events. I am going to Summer Camp. A few of my students will be attending also. I encourage all my students to be a part of the Uechi-ryu Community and my dojo is open to all practitioners as well. You know my policy and you know I welcome anybody regardless of their affiliations.

I teach at my dojo 5 times a week and work a full time day job. I have not the luxury of travelling to other dojos like you can.

I would like to see more regional workouts, where students of other dojos can work out with my students, and visa versa. I would be willing to make a "field trip" to another dojo once in awhile if there are any other sensei's willing to accept me and my students. We could take turns hosting these "field trips". It must be on a regular class night with advance notice, as transportation must be provided by the students. I would bring all my students,(who wish to attend) children and adults. Anybody willing to participate? Please respond.
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Bill Glasheen
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Just a few thoughts from the sidelines.

First, I do not fear the Gary Ks of the sparring world when it comes to injuries. It's the young white belt with spastic, no-holds-barred movement that gives me jammed fingers and bashed shins. As an example, Rich and I held our breath when we started bringing our 300+ pound student through the various levels of kumite. Now I love to work with the guy. At least with him, I know I won't get hurt unless he means to hurt me. The same would be true of working with Gary. He would do what he means, and mean what he does. So if someone in a black belt level smashed my face, I can take it personally and respond accordingly. With the white belt, it's totally unpredictable.

Yes, banging and bruising is de riguer in competition. But if a tournament is run well, one ususally doesn't have to worry about dislocations or concussions.

I've always felt that the winners of the white belt divisions in kumite deserve the sportsmanship trophies. Those poor suckers have a lot of abuse to get through up to that final fight.

- Bill
Gary Santaniello
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Gary Santaniello »

Allen,

Senior division for over 50 ? Are you sh____ me ! I believe that 35 years of age was always a guidline for a senior division. More appropriate i am sure for most of us into or "fourties" struggle getting out of bed ! Yes,i can hear them now, not me!

Where the hell did you come up with that number ? I doubt that you will see any wanting to come out and bang in that age group. Except for maybe Bill G.(smile)

Lenny,

You are correct in assuming that i did not mean "you" personally when i first posted this "topic" nor was i attacking any one individual or group.No more than i intended for any individuals to target in on Gary K and the heavy weight "Uechi
Ryu Championships" Which i feel is not neccessary.

My point of interest has been made several times and clearly stated.I see no sense in bickering over Gary K. respect/fear or whatever.

It appears that few care to expand on the benefits of attending "regional" workouts, Summer Camp, visiting other schools, etc.

Should that surprize me ?

------------------
Gary S.
Allen M.

Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Allen M. »

I used to think the senior men's divisions in general tournaments were for old fogeys, but those guys are better and smoother than any 20-year-old can be. Maybe we should have a sparring division for those of age 50+.


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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
Allen M.

Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Allen M. »

I got the idea after you said <font color=blue>Surely seniors like myself who are pushing 50 really don't go in with these young bucks and bang</font>, so I thought maybe an "old fogies" division ... could motivate some of us to put our walkers, canes, and oxygen tanks aside for a few minutes and show some SPIRIT!.


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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
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LenTesta
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by LenTesta »

Allen:

Could you imagine if Van Canna and Arthur Rabesa met in a "Tournament"!!!

One would crawl away and one would be dead.

This is not because they are OLD FOGIES. It is because of the intense way they train and the methods of defense they use.

Why do you suppose that fighting is no longer required for Godan and above tests?

Could be that there will be no survivors. Image
Allen M.

Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Allen M. »

Canna? Rabesa? Where was my mind when I said "old fogies?" Surely not on them and surely not on those of their calibre.

Where's the answer Len?

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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
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Panther
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Panther »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:

The best thing about kyu ranks in class is that you can put them up against the other kyu ranks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My first thought was "that's just mean", then it went to "hmmm, what a neat form of (pre)payback", then I realized the operative term was "in class"... Gotta be careful in those privates.
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Bill Glasheen
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Again, I'd rather face Art or Van than a kyu rank in a tournament. The former two will do what they mean and mean what they do. As long as we all have an understanding of the rules and adhere to them, we know what the results would be. But facing half a dozen spastic opponents increases the odds that a freakish event will happen. Usually the hacker will just impale himself on your technique when wildly charging in. Occasionally though you get these bizarre collisions. It isn't pretty.

I have learned, for example, to have a kyu rank show me their cross block before doing it on my roundhouse in kyu kumite. When they do it wrong, they have a 95% chance of getting my foot in their side (or face), and a 5% chance of their elbow accidentally digging into my foot. It's that lucky 5% shot that I'd rather avoid.

The best thing about kyu ranks in class is that you can put them up against the other kyu ranks.

- Bill
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LenTesta
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Supporting "Uechi" events

Post by LenTesta »

Bill-Sensei:
I agree with you 100% about fighting kyu ranks. My most recent injury occured while "knifeing" practice with a kyu rank.

I share the same fellings about the downward block kyu ranks learn in Kumite 3. It is rarely effective in stopping a dan rank's kick to the midsection, (mostly because they perform it incorrectly by using a downward thrust of the forearm into the top of the shin, instead of an arcing sweep using the side of the forearm to the side of the shin)but every once in a while, the forearm will also smash into the instep near the ankle joint.

ALLEN:

The answer is: (I assume) Too many injuries can be incured by Godan and above candidates during the "fighting" portion of tests. No equipment save a cloth pad, mouth and groin protection is used during these tests. The chances that someone could be hit by an advanced technique (we should all be using them by now) is greater than first dan candidates.

During my Yondan test, I fought with Warren Kerr (an excellant student of Clarence Wilder) During our MATCH, we injured each other. We were using the cloth (covering of the knuckles only) pads. I executed a poorly controlled roundhouse punch to his jaw that drew blood, and he pummeled me with two right siekens to my left lower breast area on the ribs. Who knows what else would have occured if we were allowed to continue? Most of this bad control by both of us can be directly related to the "chemical cocktail" we were experiencing. Every dan test I have had included the "cocktail".

I shudder to think of what two 7th dans at a promotional, "fighting" for 8th dan, would look like when they were through with each other.
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