Meditation

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 8:20 am

Well this one is made in hopes of finding everyones views on how to and what you think meditation can do for you. Do you think it has a purpose, do you think it helps, you know anything. well i'll check the forums as i do everyday. see you all 2morrow. thanks to those that posted in my other forum.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:09 pm

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Do you think it has a purpose

There are numerous objectives when meditating. Sometimes someone just wants to find a "happy place." Sometimes the individual wants greater control over brain function, which can in turn affect body function.

What many folks don't realize is there is more than one mental endpoint that can be sought through meditation. Sometimes the goal is that "zone" sometimes referred to as the alpha state (the calm mind that is aware of everything but distracted by nothing). This is what most people associate with meditiation. But advanced meditation may involve seeking out other states of mind

* View everything as if looked at for the first time

* A creative mindset associated with thought crystalization.

* A focus on specific physiologic processes (such as heart rate, blood pressure, or blood flow).

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do you think it helps

That depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve and how diligently and/or effectively you practice the meditation.

- Bill

hoshin · Post by **hoshin** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:58 am

hi all;
good post,, here is my 2 cents.
my interest in martial arts and Zen started almost 20 years ago. through out this whole time i have viewed them as one and the same. just two sides to the same coin. In 1991 i was lucky enough to find and train in a zendo that was assciated with Daihonzen chozen-ji ,international zen dojos. this temple and organization was created by Omori Sogen who was a pre ww2 swordsman . so the training i do is probably martial arts biased. where as other zen schools are not. the first line in the cannon (moto) is "Zen is to transend life and death". this can be understood in many ways but shows the connection between meditation and fighting in real combat. zen meditation is not a type of relaxation. in fact it is rather hard work, but of course it is mental hard work. a big part, is building concentration. as i meditate i often think of a tiger or enemy in front of me waiting to strike. if my concentration wavers for just a second i am dead. the intensity of doing this is so strong i often break a sweat.
over all however meditation is really no different then doing sanchin. think about when you are at the end of sanchin kata and your waiting in that ready position focused to the max.(zanshin)that is a meditation and its not relaxing is it....lol

just my ramblings
hoshin
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Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:01 am

Akuma, what is your definition of meditation? That'll help formulate my response.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 8:46 am

mmmm my definition of Meditation, well i dont think meditation can be defined, nothing really can. BUT if I had to define it. I think meditation is would be an act to cleanse the mind, heal the body, and help ones soul. That is what i would define meditation as. BUT I havent been able to meditate. I have been told ways, but they dont work. So i cant really reply to this statement.Thank you all for posting. I enjoyed reading . Hope you all will post more

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:09 am

I see meditation as time out , a clean slate , somewhere from which i can start again .

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:53 am

mmm....are any of you willing to possibly give me some pointers one meditation?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 3:27 am

Akuma

Start simple, with something that gives you some return. Here are a few suggestions.

1) Posture, posture, posture. Whether you do this sitting or standing, you must have perfect posture so that you don't become fatigued, and you spend little effort on holding yourself up. This may take practice.

2) Engage in some kind of repetitive activity. Sometimes this is just focusing on your breathing. You might also do a very simple form (like sanchin) that has simple, repetitive motions. Another thing to do is mentally repeat some simple, mindless word or phrase to yourself.

3) If # 2 doesn't grab you, then look to a little bit of external help. "White noise" is a great aid. Examples would be sitting on a beach and listening to the waves, or listening to water in a stream. You might also go to a "nature" shop (in my day they used to call them "head" shops...

) and purchase a tape that has the sound of water or waves or whatever.

The goal of 2 or 3 above is to clear your mind and let it go. You want to free it of "chatter," but you should still be aware of (but not distracted by) the world around you.

4) Another completely different approach is to try various biofeedback methods. I don't know if they still have any of the machines around, but you might look around and see if they have devices that either give you a signal for a high presence of alpha waves in the brain, or maybe just something that converts your heart rate (measured by EKG) to a tone or signal. Then just play around with the device and use it to learn how to manipulate your physiology.

One final note... This is all best accomplished at the end of a really good workout, when you are feeling that nice afterglow.

Good luck.

- Bill

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 6:04 am

thank you...that was the biggest help anything has ever been...am going to work out and then try....THANKZ SOOO MUCH....

raulf7 · Post by **raulf7** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 7:58 am

I dont think meditation has one iota of value in martial performance

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 4:39 pm

raulf7

Before I give a point of view on this, I'd like to ask you a few simple questions.

1) Your statement is very strong. Why do you feel this way?

2) Have you thought about why others feel there is value to the practice? Do you understand the reasoning of those people? If so, what do you think of their reasoning?

- Bill

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Thu Feb 07, 2002 1:55 pm

I have found meditation to be invaluable in all areas of life. Most of the meditation practices I have learned have come from martial arts.

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ted

"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke

Malcolm Wagner · Post by **Malcolm Wagner** » Thu Feb 07, 2002 2:01 pm

raulf7 wrote "I dont think meditation has one iota of value in martial performance"

Is this a "Koan" designed to bring about enlightenment or do you really mean this??? Without the stillnes in your own mind (through meditation) you will never be able to read the voids in your opponents technique. "The time to strike is when the opportunity presents itself."

Akuma-Shogun

I have been playing at meditation for around 13 years and I don't think I would have made it through nursing-school without it's daily practice.

The goal is not necessarily to stop all internal "chatter" but to allow the thoughts (sounds, pictures, abstract-ideas)to drift past the consciousness without becoming indulgent or attached to every detail.

Candle method: Fire has a hypnotic effect, don't know why, maybe because it is ever changing. Dark, quiet room. Place a candle about 15-20 inches away from face. Practice focusing and un-focusing the eyes on the candle for about 5 minutes to start---focusing on the candle will keep you from obsessing on the random thoughts in the mind.

Water-method: (My favorite). Run a comfortable tub of water, enough to be able to lay back in and cover the ears and throat (of course shallow enough to keep the nose and mouth above water). Begin with the sound "Ho";as long and drawn out as possible. Make sure that the throat is also under the water level---it makes a cool vibration in the ear. "Ho" is a mantra for calming the mind. Next use the sound "Ha" for calming the body. The universal sound "Om" or "Aum" is for allowing the spirit to flow through the mind and body for healing or enlightenment. Keep the tounge on the roof of the mouth just behing the upper teeth. Draw the sounds out as long as possible with emphasis on the "Ohhh", "Ahhh" and "Mmmmm". Try this for about 10 minutes to start,but be warned, it becomes addictive. Oh yeah, don't forget to wash behind the ears

It took a while for my wife to get used to me hanging out in the bathtub and chanting Ho, Ha, Om every night---who knows, maybe she just accepted the idea that I am not your normal husband

"There is a way of being that cannot be known until we release to wind and waves on the sea of unknowing. With mind poised just so, empty and full of sky, a way becomes clear."

Mal (Old Painless) Wagner

candan · Post by **candan** » Thu Feb 07, 2002 10:12 pm

It took a while for my wife to get used to me hanging out in the bathtub and chanting Ho, Ha, Om every night---who knows, maybe she just accepted the idea that I am not your normal husband

Mal (Old Painless) Wagner[/B][/QUOTE]

Your not alone chanting in tub, works for me as well. Meditation is practced in many forms, rosary beads, prayers being repeated or simply staring into a fire as mentioned (TV doesn`t cut it) It seems to aid the ability to absorb and retain information as well as other benifits.

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 12:10 am

mmm thats cool, i din know that it could be done anywhere. I cant wait till i meditate for the first time... i think thats gonna be the hardest thing to get over....id never wanna stop..
thank you all...have been wanting for years...and you all are helping...Thank You