Meditation

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:55 am

this has totaly nuttin to do with meditation. but i know someone will see this and know the answer...were i live there is no school and i cant find one close that is in state. i cant find any other samurai to teach me...so the question is
what can i do all by myself to earn the right to wear both swords?...how can i become a samurai without having a teacher...this question keeps me awake at night...in fact i havent slept in 3 days do to it....

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:59 am

laughin...ok i have another question this ones pertains to meditation. in kolodo i was taught "Spinning Wheel" sll you do is imagine a spinnig wheel and you feel no pain. is that meditation?mmm oh yeah i tried some of white noise that you guys told me. i was standing waiting for neice to get off the bus and it was snowing. the was water off in the background. some who it was like i was hypnotized and i could move, i could hear what was going on but the water was like it was calling my mind.. i stood out in the snow for 4 hours....didnt see it get dark....didnt get cold....was that meditation?...or just boredom from waiting?

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 5:44 am

well thank you all again. I will try out those tecniques as well. meditaton is something i have always wanted to do

Malcolm Wagner · Post by **Malcolm Wagner** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 1:09 pm

Akuma-Shogun-San,

I don't know how old you are so I don't know if you will be able to relate to this example, but---Have you ever been playing a video game and it seemed that you were just playing the game without having to think about it, kind of like being on auto-pilot, then the minute you starting thinking about it too much you messed-up??? Ever done that??? If you have then you were in a state called "Mushin", which is a meditative state of the mind. This is the state that a warrior seeks to be in all the time---a state of pure action or reaction without all the self-conscious thought.

People are in meditative states all the time but just don't realize it, then if they do realize it---it's gone.

Meditation is just being.

Mal

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 6:34 pm

Well actually yeah..happens all the time...while im walking too...OMG...tried the bathtub thing...only couldnt chant...so i foceused on my breathe and chanted with th breathing....OMG it was sooo cool...like being htere but not...there was water...i knew it...but couldnt feel it...was way odd...but OMG...thak you all...i think i succeeded....not sure...but wow...i felt so good afterwards....like a new person...
then i went to sleep...lolZ
thank you all....i enjoy reading all of your pasts...please continue

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 7:08 pm

Just don't fall asleep in the bathtub.

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 7:25 pm

LOL...i will try not too,..thnkX for caring...LOLZ

raulf7 · Post by **raulf7** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 8:52 pm

Meditation? Hmmmm

Well for me, I feel, in my humble opinion, that there are many fighters in and out of Karate who are highly skilled who simply never meditate.

I have studied sports training assiduously for 27 years and I have never seen studies that conclusively prove that meditation is a key factor in one person being more successful than another.

Perhaps some get some spiritual solace from it, but I cannot see how it will make any huge difference.

I have been fortunate to meet and be involved with several Olympic Gold Medalists in my country and this topic has come up and again there seems to be no conclusive studies that it is a deciding factor.

In my training I look for methods that will make a deciding factor. I just dont see it in this one

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:41 pm

Akuma, are you the same Akuma from Z2?

Anyway.

I like to meditate outside in my back yard. I have a small garden with a goldfish pond and my Makiwara. The waterfall helps me relax and to drop in to my meditation. While meditating I can look back at my last work out and see my strong points and my weaknesses.

Meditation is a very useful tool to the martial artists. It is what separates us from the street brawlers.

[This message has been edited by Brett (edited February 08, 2002).]

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:42 pm

raulf7-sama,

I suggest that you look into the techniques of training used by many of the biathalon athletes. Meditation and breathing are keys to taking a Gold Medal in that sport.

Without control of the heart rate the shooting side of the sport goes out the window. Meditation techniques have been proven to be a key factor in many champion's training regimens.

This also qualifies for Yabusami - horse archery and many of the other aimed weapon arts.

Scotty Pippen used hypnosis, as has Michael Jordan and, believe it or not, Dennis Rodman. Mickey Mantle used it as did Roger Maris. Bruce Lee used meditation to help focus himself and ignore distractions in real fights and on the set.

Stanford University did a series of studies on "mental rehearsal" with basketball players that showed that using meditation and visualization techniques, scores improved markedly.

Frankly, I would suggest a better review of the literature on psychological processes and their effects on sporting ability.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 8:51 pm

Aw Lee, you took all my fun away!

But seriously...

I just pulled one book off my shelf, a classic I bought years ago when at U.Va.

The Injured Athlete. Edited by Daniel N. Kulund, M.D. 1982, JB Lippincott Company

Dr. Kulund, an orthopedics surgeon, was once on the faculty at U.Va., and a favorite doc of the jocks - particularly runners. He had his own running clinic where he would videotape folks running, and then manufacture orthotics for them to compensate for what was lacking due to genetics. He was famous for going down to the local bike shop and taking all the used bicycle inner tubes to give away to patients so they could do rehab exercises at home. Dr. Kulund helped me deal with 3 injuries that have left me with a lifetime of minor disability. Like any good "jock doc," he loves his patients and works with them to see that they stay on the playing field in whatever way they possibly can.

One chapter of that book was written by Robert J. Rotella, Ph.D., a sports psychologist - Psychological Care of the Injured Athlete. He also is (was??) on the faculty at U.Va., and a number of famous athletes around the country come visit him to deal with psychological barriers in their sports performance. There are 30 references at the end of his chapter. Included are references like the following:

Averill J: Personal control over aversive stimuli and its relationship to stress. Psychol Bull 80: 286-303, 1973

Kavanaugh RE: Facing Death. Los Angeles, Nash publishing, 1972

Melzach R, Wall P: Pain mechanisms, a new Theory. Science 150:197, 1965

Reeves J: EMG-biofeedback reduction of tension headache: a cognitive skills training approach. Biofeedback Self Regul 1: 217-225, 1976

Rotella RJ: Systematic desensitization. Psychological rehabilitation of injured athletes. In Bunker L, Rottella R (eds): Sports Psychology: From Theory to Practice. Charlottesville, Virginia, Department of Health and Physical Education, University of Virginia, 1978

Perhaps the problem may be your own personal definition of "meditation." Fair enough, but those who take it seriously are thinking a bit beyond those rip-off courses in Transcendental Meditation. In any case, research and application of methods in mind-body control are alive and well.

- Bill

raulf7 · Post by **raulf7** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:50 am

As I understand it meditations goal is to lower your brain levels to alpha or theta state. If you wanna do this, save time and buy a mind machine and do it in minutes rather than years of training in meditation.

I tried meditation (my mother is a Yoga teacher and has been for 40 odd years) and apart from feeling relaxed it did zip for my training.

I found focusing on, setting and achieving training goals had a far more profound effect.

Maybe it works for some, but it just didnt for me.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:51 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

As I understand it meditations goal is to lower your brain levels to alpha or theta state.

I agreed that this is what most people think of as meditation.

However there are other goals, such as modifying aspects of the autonomic nervous system like heart-rate, blood pressure, palm sweating (teaching yourself to beat a lie detector test), blood flow to a specific region, etc. These types of "meditation" would be quite beneficial in managing the panic mode when threatened - if effective.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

If you wanna do this, save time and buy a mind machine and do it in minutes rather than years of training in meditation.

Well minutes may be a bit of an exaggeration (that's an understatement...), but your point is well taken. Biofeedback is definitely a more efficient route.

HOWEVER

1) Not everyone can afford equipment that's really worth having. Most of what is available to consumers at a "reasonable" price is junk.

2) There's something to be said for doing it au naturel, just as there's something to be said for using free weights vs. fancy machines. This is complex...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I found focusing on, setting and achieving training goals had a far more profound effect.

I agree 100%. Scenario training is also another way to get at this (mindset) more directly in the application to self-defense.

But once again, we are assuming that one has access to people, equipment, etc. It's certainly nice to have a way to "practice" on your own.

- Bill

akuma_shogun · Post by **akuma_shogun** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 9:52 am

Well I thank you all for the new posts. I dont really believe in using modern technology to reach a goal that would take training. I am one of those TRADITIONAL type 20 year olds. I want to achieve meditation in my own time. after all whts the fun if you can go buy a machine that will do the work for...(i am using a computer but ohwell...dont wanna walk the world to talk to each of...)

I believe that meditation can have many benifits. I believe that it could be used to heal. spiritual cleanse, i could get to know myself. I mean there are many things i belive that it can do for me, But again thank you for the posts. And i hope that you all will continue to post.....Akuma Shogun

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Perhaps the problem may be your own personal definition of "meditation." Fair enough, but those who take it seriously are thinking a bit beyond those rip-off courses in Transcendental Meditation. In any case, research and application of methods in mind-body control are alive and well.
-Bill Glasheen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As I understand it meditations goal is to lower your brain levels to alpha or theta state.
-raulf7
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One first learns to quiet the mind and settle the breath. I dislike the term "control" initially, because it tends to make the struggle more severe. The point is to cease struggling with yourself. Let the shrill chatter of the mind drift away by not attending to it. Let your breath be the breath of sleep. Sit. After a time, the state one begins to achieve with this practice is more easily attainable; one's awareness of center is increased.

Once the center is found, a practice can be any activity one does while trying to remain in the centered state. Eventually, and I wouldn't know, YET, one is able to live in this state.

The practice of achieving this state and the subsequent activities performed while being in this state are meditation.

This ability to be in this state frees energy to focus. This increased focus can be used for self healing, more effective training, problem solving...

I also think that this state is achieved spontaneously at times. Being "in the zone" is a way to describe it. Some people "meditate" by engaging in activities where they are able to get into "the zone."

raulf7, I submit that you "meditate" alot, judging by the level of focused training you engage in. No method is universal. Sometimes I sit, sometimes I walk, sometimes I do kata. Everybody finds their own way.

Martial Arts has led me to many approaches to "meditation." I spent some time in therapy with a Clinical Psychologist who taught me some more (Prozac has nothing on Sufiism). But I learned of the truth of its value from my sister.

Diagnosed with astrocytoma glioma (nasty brain tumor) and given a year at the outside. In addition to a VERY good surgeon and neurologist (Drs Kelly and Penry(?) at Bowman-Gray) and a full "western" approach to treatment, she learned techniques of "meditation." She learned to visualize and fight her tumor. She used prayer (also a "meditation") She lived eight more years, including a Masters Degree in Divinity from Union Theological (Try learning Ancient Greek on seisure medication). The point is: her Doctors told her, about five years into the struggle, that whatever she was doing to keep doing it, because her success wasn't just because of them. She meditated.

I KNOW meditation is valuable. Don't get twisted around the vocabulary words.

------------------
ted

"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke