very interesting!!!

[Van Canna]

One aspect of teaching martial arts to students is very rarely mentioned in these discussions with all the talk about techniques, concepts, my art is better than yours and my balls weigh more than yours.

A few times in the past I mentioned on my forum….what do we tell a student traumatized in a street attack….a battered woman ….a raped woman…etc. who come knocking on your door looking for ways to defend herself so that nothing like what she went through…will ever happen again.

Well, Rory in his book covers this critical subject in detail in a very pointed manner….

He talks of ‘contract’ in words with this student with resulting caveats.

Rory wrote this section so well that the information will burrow deep into your soul as a practitioner of defensive violence and as of your responsibility as a teacher of such students.

Here is a sampling

…exposure to extreme violence will change you.

….you will realize that many people are attached to ideas and opinions that are meaningless, and how many of the passionate disagreements of your past were largely pointless.

It may become hard to talk to people…your frame of reference may have shifted forever…for me… it’s hard to talk to martial artists, to see their shiny happy eyes as they discuss a fantasy that you pray they will never test.

This section must be read over and over and over, because it will shock you deep inside and cause you to view your made up ‘martial world’ in an entire different light…and realize the shortcomings beginning to take the form of venomous snakes coiling around your psyche.

Soon, your pecker won’t seem much bigger than the next teacher in a style.

Go buy the book and read it.

[Bill Glasheen]

Hi sensei George
something that I want to know where this thread is:
if you remember their days in Okinawa,
japonization of karate okinawense happened?
you could see it?
you could realize?

Gracias otra vez por sus pensamientos, Carlos. Esto es una gran discusión.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Van

I experienced these same feelings when - after a corporate take-over of my company - they shut my research department down. Even though my departing employer gave me an EXTREMELY generous severance package, it was a real kick in the gut.

I remember folks saying the same things over and over.

• You'll be back on your feet again in no time.
• Your next job very well may be much better.
• When one door closes, another opens.

Even though I knew they may have been right... Even though they meant well... Even though I had done everything I could do to secure my next landing spot... Nothing anyone could tell me helped.

Oddly enough, Grossman's On Killing helped me understand a lot of my feelings. And Grossman's the man whose wisdom on this matter I would tap into to help folks after a traumatic event.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Good points Bill. I can imagine what you went through.

For me the experiences of a multiple attack by opponents with blunt weapons, that resulted in one of them almost being killed, and the killing of my niece by home invaders in the presence of her parents, did change my views on the 'self defense' scheme of things we do, thus my often cynicism about the techniques and concepts we train with ...that now and then sparks dismay in some of us.

Not very many senseis understand that...I am glad that Rory took the 'bull by the horns' in his book _ letting it fly.

You will also have noticed that nobody feels slighted by what he writes, or if they do, they do not step forward.

[Josann]

Quote: "You will also have noticed that nobody feels slighted by what he writes, or if they do, they do not step forward."

Interesting. No one has criticized his praise of and strong opinions on the validity of kata. And, even more interesting is that he is primarily a jujitsu guy.

[gmattson]

Rory writes in a non-judgmental manner, stating his point of view in an honest and objective manner.

He states his opinion about subject matter that gets talked about a lot on these forums, but in a manner that doesn't insult people who may not agree.

Rory (and Darren) state opinions without the barbs that so often get attached to commentary here. Its not the opinions that hurt, but the barbs.

[MikeK]

Well put George.

They keep it civil at Rob Redmond's blog on some touchy subjects.

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2008/ ... l#comments

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2008/ ... l#comments

[Van Canna]

Well...I am glad we got that cleared up.

[jorvik]

Nice quote from Mike's link
Quote
I can appreciate a well-performed kata, but when I ask an champion to apply the moves in reality so that I can learn, and he starts clutching at straws or making excuses, it irritates me. Rather say,”I have no clue, brother, but it looks pretty sharp huh, and it won me a medal.” At least that’s honest.

And if kata application sessions start looking like ju-jitsu classes, which they often do, what does it say about the stand-up activity we label and recognise as karate?

[Bill Glasheen]

And if kata application sessions start looking like ju-jitsu classes, which they often do, what does it say about the stand-up activity we label and recognise as karate?

Wow!

It says that Okinawan karate has a grappling foundation. And it says that some critics don't understand Okinawan karate.

Tegumi is a traditional form of wrestling from Okinawa.

According to Shoshin Nagamine, in his "Tales of Okinawa's Great Masters", there are no accurate historical documents surrounding the origins of grappling in Okinawa. Like most other forms of wrestling it seems that tegumi evolved from a primitive form of grappling self defense, which was constantly being adapted and enhanced as it was exposed to outside influences.

It is believed by some, Shoshin Nagamine Sensei included, that tegumi was probably the original form of fighting in Okinawa and, as it was enhanced by striking and kicking techniques imported from China, became the progenitor of Te, which is the foundation of modern Karate.

Known as tegumi in Naha, and mutou in Tomari and Shuri, Okinawan wrestling remained a popular cultural recreation until the Taisho period (1912 – 1925). There is little evidence of how tegumi evolved but the result was a rough and tumble bout where the winner was decided by submission, through joint locks, strangles or pinning. Today, tegumi has a strict set of rules and is still practiced widely.

Okinawan folklore is full of references to tegumi and it is believed that the island's version of sumo can find its roots in the rural wrestling of the past.

- Tegumi

So... who learned what from whom?

I find it difficult to believe that the founder of any non-sport fighting art never encountered an enemy that wanted to clinch, or take the fight to the ground. That just doesn't pass the sniff test.

And I also wonder about any martial art which chooses in kata to fight with hands open.



What's that all about?

Why am I not surprised that you posted this, Ray?

- Bill

[JimHawkins]

N
I can appreciate a well-performed kata, but when I ask an champion to apply the moves in reality so that I can learn, and he starts clutching at straws or making excuses, it irritates me. Rather say,”I have no clue, brother, but it looks pretty sharp huh, and it won me a medal.” At least that’s honest.

Right..

And if some others had written this all the regularly scheduled 'diss cards' would have been tossed on the table... Baaahhhh!

[fivedragons]

screw wrestling, grab them by the face or neck, drive their head into the ground.

Take away all the b.s. about chi sao, short bridge and long bridge, my Chinese teacher can force me back while I'm standing there like a ##### statue.

You want to know what chi is? It is fire in the belly. Most people don't have it and that is why the Chinese tried to teach it. Mind body and spirit focussed on a single point on the horizon.

Kata is a bunch of movements in an artistic holographic form that encapsulate the end, not the means. Kata is a ritual of death. Ha ha ha

[JimHawkins]

Take away all the b.s. about chi sao, short bridge and long bridge, my Chinese teacher can force me back while I'm standing there like a ##### statue.

Hiccup!

Yeah it's total BS..

Hiccup!

When you get inside and your entry fails and the primal flail begins just keep repeating that and "it's all in the kata" hopefully the enemy will think he hit you too hard and leave...

[fivedragons]

Dude, if my entry fails and the primal flail begins, I'd better thank my lucky stars that I'm only reading a forum on the internet while drinking a cold beer.

Maybe the enemy will leave me alone long enough to grab another beer.

[Laird2]

Dragon skull him with the empty!

Okay my money's on the Five of dragons! Who's in?