NOTE: To qualify, this is just my idea of what is going on. There has been much discussed and written about the films actually, including "The Philosophy of the Matrix" and pages of articles about philosophical connections at www.whatisthematrix.com website. To view those, go to the "mainframe" screen and its row 2 of screens in column 3. I'm working my way through these and hoping to get the book soon.
Ok, here is my take on some of the questions brought up. Please excuse me if I cover too much background in explanation. I felt it necessary to explain where "I'm coming from" in the reasoning.
My view of the whole film set of "The Matrix" (Original, Reloaded, Revolutions too maybe? Will have to just wait and see I guess) is to keep in mind that it takes place inside a massive system of computer programs. All virtual reality exists inside the matrix in computer code. I figure that when the people "jack in," including Neo, their brains become part of that computer program network, which is how they participate in the matrix to begin with. They are integrated subroutines. Neo and the rest got disconnected when their "program" started functioning independently against that overall matrix of programs.
Neo's advantage in the end of the first movie was that he was able to alter the code faster than the computer could using his will. He could bend and break the rules of code because of that. The computers weren't too great at it since they had the incidents of deja vu popping up to show when they changed something. In some cases, Neo totally rewrote the code. In short, he (his mind) became a virus program that was corrupting and rewriting the system inside the larger system of computer programs. Smith even refers to humans as viruses in the first film. [The obvious comparisons in the current episode are with Smith as the virus.] So, looking at the brain as a computer and our thought processes as sophisticated programs, you can see how he could manipulate more in the original when the computers weren't accustomed to someone rewriting their code.
Neo deals with "upgrades" in this episode as he says in one of the opening sequences. The computer programs have become more resistant and adaptive to his rewriting efforts. I compare this to virus protection software and its upgrades. Neo still continues to move faster than the computers however. But he is still learning how to manipulate the matrix programs and hack them too. He is still working within the system in many ways. He isn't all-powerful enough to totally obliterate the matrix programming...yet at least.
As far as why he would get cut and bleed though, I am guessing at the following reasoning. For humans, there is no Cartesian mind-body dualism in the matrix. The image of the person, Neo, is the same as his mind. To the matrix, that is a virus program or another computer, I'm not clear precisely. When he gets injured, his program (mind) is getting hacked and damaged by the other programs. That shows up for humans as an injury to the body representation in the matrix, because humans think in terms of their bodies. It also correlates to the physical body the same way as brain death = physical death. So, to me, Neo being cut and bleeding is a sign that the matrix programs have managed to break into his own mental program/mind and cause damage that he has not been able to repair.... at least not at that time. Fighting is the visual representation of that hacking. The real programming stuff shows up on the Nebachadnezer's monitors.
So why doesn't "Smith" get hurt? I figure its because computers don't have mind-body connections for representation. That's why Smith and the other "agents" can leap from one human "body" to another. Their programming is not attached to a physical representation or, in the matrix, a virtual representation of a body. I imagine the fact that they would show up at all is simply to show the audience the presence of this "agent" program now operating after hijacking a human program. The agent's can only be seen by those "unplugged" remember, I think because they are seeing code or at least able to read and manipulate it. I seem to remember Morpheus mentioning that in the first...I'm not positive though. The agents and matrix programs don't have "pain" either really, just termination or corruption of programming. All the "emotions" they have are illusionary or possibly mistakes in the program. Smith started getting emotions outside of his programming scope in the end of the first and now he has gone "rogue"...There must be a connection there to my way of thinking.
As far as Smith duplicating himself (since there has already been a spoiler), if I look at it as the brain being a program or computer, I can see Smith as a virus that has hijacked the brain of a person, duplicating himself in the new "computer" and taking over. This would be much like a virus would jump into a home computer system through email and operate even when the person is not on the net.
Now, for other thoughts I have...SPOILERS..
Neo in the first was offered two pills, red or blue. This he was offered two doors, left or right if you will. These are binary thinking of computer language, 1 or 0. Humans aren't confined to that however. Not everything must be yes or no. This is something computers are not able to deal with without extreme routines that themselves still break down to a series of yes or no, 1 or 0 responses. The kid with the "spoon" from the first movie reminded Neo to realize that to bend the spoon you must realize that the spoon doesn't bend or even actually exist, but that you must bend. This is radically thinking outside the box. I thought the spoon in the new one looked handmade and battered, but not especially warped or bent. It makes me wonder what the message is: Is it saying Neo is still in a Matrix? Is it a reminder to him to bend and realize nothing else exists? Is it pointing to this as the real world where he can't bend the spoon? Or is it saying he can bend it here just like the Matrix? Maybe it was just a liberated kid saying Thanks, that he was free now too.
And Persephone? The Morovingian? The Keymaker? The Oracle? not to mention the ghosts, werewolves and vamps....The whole thing is laden with potential mythology connections. I just noticed the restaurant is called "Le Vrai"..if my french is right that means "the Truth." The paraphrase at the end of Nebachadnezer's "I have dreamed a dream and now my dream is no more." Which Dream is Morpheus talking about???
I do know that those machines in the Matrix lie particularly when it serves their purpose. Really, the whole matrix itself is a lie.... Even Morpheus says in the first that the Oracle won't tell Neo the truth..just what he needs to hear. But need to hear for what? So, I seriously doubt we can believe that the two options the Archetect gives are the only options... Or that anything the programs say is true; the computers have their own survival in mind. So who can you trust? What is the "truth"?
What the new "Revolutions" will reveal is all up in the air to me. (Does anyone else wonder why it is Plural?) I doubt the "obvious" things from this film will remain obvious in the next. I expect everything to be turned around on its head and inside out. Who is and is not still "jacked in" is pretty unclear to me. It may be that ultimately, everything is a simulation and none of it is real, not even Neo.
Have to wait for November I guess.
Le'
Matrix Reloaded - Better and worse
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Le Haggard
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Re: LONG and Has Spoilers
NOW you're on the right track...Le Haggard wrote:It may be that ultimately, everything is a simulation and none of it is real...
Interesting replies, all. Let me first congratulate the W. Bros for captivating us so. I mean, Enter the Dragon was a pretty good chopsockey, and all I did after that was think it was a pretty good chopsockey. I don't have a good explanation of all that's going to be revealed in Revolutions, and I don't think that whichever tack is taken is going to invalidate any of the original thinking people do here before it comes out. No one's interpretation is going to be "wrong," it's just not going to be the one they ran with. Some thoughts:
--The fact that Smith is in the real world (and that Neo can zap sentinels there) is paramount. Either there's another layer to the mysticism cake that explains his powers (which may not explain Smith), or they're in another layer of the matrix still (how they gonna get out??) or that approaching ship fired an EMF and Neo happened to have a aneurysm at the same time
That last one is unlikely but I do wonder what that ship thought they were going to get out of cuddling those sentinels.
--Why can't operators take note of the fact that some freaked out Agent answered their phone call and not their man? Why can't they pay attention when someone is eating steak with Agents in the first movie (what, did that guy plug himself in and out or something??). Hey that's life I guess.
--I don't think it's as simple as Neo can manipulate code faster than the computer. First, that takes the mysticism out of it and reduces the fight to sorta like a pimply teen hacking faster than the security at the pentagon--that seems counter to all the "feel" elements in the film. Second, they (the machines) can do whatever they want in the Matrix (like reboot the whole damn thing and design it however they want) but they're limited (in my tiny, plugged in mind) by the fact that if they muck too much with a bird in flight, it'll crap out and crash. I think breaking too many rules would make it unstable at least by making it impossible for people to accept the Matrix anymore.
--Neo doesn't "get it," in Reloaded. In the first film we see that everything is a matter of will. Try to fight or jump within the rules you know, you lose or fall. As Yoda put it, "There is no try. There is only do, or do not." In just fighting agents the outcome depends on psychology. Catch an agent in a bad mood, or when the odds seem stacked against you (Morpheus fighting Smith in the bathroom) and you lose; fight an agent when you have the upper hand or the element of surprise and you can gun 4 down easily when before that day no one had shot an agent (freeing Morpheus). Yet in Reloaded Neo uses a few tricks (bullet stopping, flying) but doesn't seem to understand that the trick is thinking outside the box. I spose if he did, he wouldn't get to show us his moves, however.
--Is a program getting damaged when Neo gets cut? Don't think so... I think the program is running fine, it's just programming a cut. Personal opinion.
--The world as explained by the architect was not clear to me on one pass. Can people put it together here? I got that the Matrix required choice to work; that's fine. It's the egg that makes the cake mix. Why this requires Zion, multiple Zions, or the One is not clear to me.
--The fact that Smith is in the real world (and that Neo can zap sentinels there) is paramount. Either there's another layer to the mysticism cake that explains his powers (which may not explain Smith), or they're in another layer of the matrix still (how they gonna get out??) or that approaching ship fired an EMF and Neo happened to have a aneurysm at the same time
That last one is unlikely but I do wonder what that ship thought they were going to get out of cuddling those sentinels.--Why can't operators take note of the fact that some freaked out Agent answered their phone call and not their man? Why can't they pay attention when someone is eating steak with Agents in the first movie (what, did that guy plug himself in and out or something??). Hey that's life I guess.
--I don't think it's as simple as Neo can manipulate code faster than the computer. First, that takes the mysticism out of it and reduces the fight to sorta like a pimply teen hacking faster than the security at the pentagon--that seems counter to all the "feel" elements in the film. Second, they (the machines) can do whatever they want in the Matrix (like reboot the whole damn thing and design it however they want) but they're limited (in my tiny, plugged in mind) by the fact that if they muck too much with a bird in flight, it'll crap out and crash. I think breaking too many rules would make it unstable at least by making it impossible for people to accept the Matrix anymore.
--Neo doesn't "get it," in Reloaded. In the first film we see that everything is a matter of will. Try to fight or jump within the rules you know, you lose or fall. As Yoda put it, "There is no try. There is only do, or do not." In just fighting agents the outcome depends on psychology. Catch an agent in a bad mood, or when the odds seem stacked against you (Morpheus fighting Smith in the bathroom) and you lose; fight an agent when you have the upper hand or the element of surprise and you can gun 4 down easily when before that day no one had shot an agent (freeing Morpheus). Yet in Reloaded Neo uses a few tricks (bullet stopping, flying) but doesn't seem to understand that the trick is thinking outside the box. I spose if he did, he wouldn't get to show us his moves, however.
--Is a program getting damaged when Neo gets cut? Don't think so... I think the program is running fine, it's just programming a cut. Personal opinion.
--The world as explained by the architect was not clear to me on one pass. Can people put it together here? I got that the Matrix required choice to work; that's fine. It's the egg that makes the cake mix. Why this requires Zion, multiple Zions, or the One is not clear to me.
--Ian
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Stryke
i think that Neo manipultes the matrix by emotion and intuition , he doesnt beleive the deception , basically his emotions and feelings are stronger than the sensory stimulus provided by the matrix , It` a question of faith feeling and intuition , something the machines cant undestand or manipulate , the matrix bends to fit this or it would fail to make sense/logic and the programm would fail , it`s a question of faith in his beleifs/feelings , even when he sees the contrary its all about being human .
i think there isnt a another layer , i feel Neo and the agent have realised that there isnt a necessary boundary , that the two worlds have become so linked that one can influence the other , I feel the agent has learnt to use the mind as a computer to store itself , it has a bit more conciousness and can understand the human aspect of will enough to survive in the mind , and enough of the aspect of will to manipulate the matrix , he`s becoming in a way more human ..... perhaps developing intuition .
Neo and the humans are still only peices of data to the machines/sentinals , maybe the matrix progarmming is so interlinked that it is responding to Neos faith in the real world , the matrix is learning cause and effect , to it`s own detriment , the machines are once again bound by logic , I know this is a far fetched theory but works for me
i think the key is the spoon , still havent worked that one out , it`s the strongest pointer to there being another level of the matrix , if neo ever bends the spoon in the real world , well know its just another matrix ... did I miss something crucial , how did the spoon get to the *REAL* world , this to me in itself is the crossover , I thought it only existed in the matrix *shrug* lots , cant wait to see the third ....
just a few theorys , hey maybe the second movie was cooler than i thunk , it`s growing on me
, it`s a question of faith in his beleifs/feelings , even when he sees the contrary its all about being human .i think there isnt a another layer , i feel Neo and the agent have realised that there isnt a necessary boundary , that the two worlds have become so linked that one can influence the other , I feel the agent has learnt to use the mind as a computer to store itself , it has a bit more conciousness and can understand the human aspect of will enough to survive in the mind , and enough of the aspect of will to manipulate the matrix , he`s becoming in a way more human ..... perhaps developing intuition .
Neo and the humans are still only peices of data to the machines/sentinals , maybe the matrix progarmming is so interlinked that it is responding to Neos faith in the real world , the matrix is learning cause and effect , to it`s own detriment , the machines are once again bound by logic , I know this is a far fetched theory but works for me
i think the key is the spoon , still havent worked that one out , it`s the strongest pointer to there being another level of the matrix , if neo ever bends the spoon in the real world , well know its just another matrix ... did I miss something crucial , how did the spoon get to the *REAL* world , this to me in itself is the crossover , I thought it only existed in the matrix *shrug* lots , cant wait to see the third ....
just a few theorys , hey maybe the second movie was cooler than i thunk , it`s growing on me
