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Here is good info on greenhouse gasses from the US EPA site:

Each greenhouse gas differs in its ability to absorb heat in the atmosphere. HFCs and PFCs are the most heat-absorbent. Methane traps over 21 times more heat per molecule than carbon dioxide, and nitrous oxide absorbs 270 times more heat per molecule than carbon dioxide. Often, estimates of greenhouse gas emissions are presented in units of millions of metric tons of carbon equivalents (MMTCE), which weights each gas by its GWP value, or Global Warming Potential.

So, as I stated, methane is a big player. Also, look at NOX. Diesel engines are big NOX producers.

Fortunately, pig stuff does not produce NOX (at least I do not think so).

Rich

more...

19% of US emissions of methane come from:

Livestock enteric fermentation. Among domesticated livestock, ruminant animals (cattle, buffalo, sheep, goats, and camels) produce significant amounts of methane as part of their normal digestive processes. In the rumen, or large fore-stomach, of these animals, microbial fermentation converts feed into products that can be digested and utilized by the animal. This microbial fermentation process, referred to as enteric fermentation, produces methane as a by-product, which can be exhaled by the animal. Methane is also produced in smaller quantities by the digestive processes of other animals, including humans, but emissions from these sources are insignificant. The U.S. inventory report provides a detailed description on methane emissions from livestock enteric fermentation and how they are estimated (see the Chapter entitled "Agriculture").

Livestock manure produces 6% more so livestock account for 25% of the total methane releases in the US.

Looking at the big picture, the world percentage of methane from enteric fermentation is 28%.

Methane is not absorbed as CO2 is and stays in the environment 10 to 15 years!

Rich

Rich

I still don't buy it. Sorry...

Before we came aboard the U.S., this country was crawling with $hit-producing buffalo, elk, deer, etc., etc. Skies would be darkened by flocks of $hitting birds. The plains were covered with grasslands that provided the fuel to produce these large herds of $hit producers. Have you read Undaunted Courage and seen how plentiful the game was when Lewis and Clarke first traversed the country? My great grandfather talked about men doing target practice from trains in his western frontier army days.

We've wiped out most of the herds of grazers, and replaced them with pigs and cattle.

Same old $hit.

The planet was and likely still is in equilibrium with this regular methane production. And soon they'll probably be turning even more of it into fuel.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter that methane or NOX is so much more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2 if it is infinitessimal in comparison with CO2.

Methane is baseline. CO2 and NOX are changing. What matters is the response of the system to change.

Furthermore... As Laird says, there is plenty of history to show extreme cycles in heat and cold in this planet. We still don't know why the cycles exist, and whether or not the planet's temperatures are still naturally cycling. Go a few miles from here, and you find fossilized whale bone and shark's teeth on the banks of the James River. I still have some of the stuff in my office at home. Probably a third of Virginia was under the ocean at one point.

Clean is good; no arguments there, Stryke. But we have environmental pressures far more pressing than global warming to be concerned about how we pollute. Chances are pretty good that we'll keep our act together for these other reasons long before the change in planetary temperatures begin to affect our lives. And by then, there will be no more oil to burn. There's a finite amount of fossil fuel to burn. The problem ultimately is self-limiting.

- Bill

just a question for the scientific types out there, what factor or affect does the rapidly increasing population have on these changes in temprature and 'greenhouse gasses', especially CO2(exhalation?) ?

How much energy(thermal watts) does the human body produce? and how much does it need to survive?

A lot of people are asking of runaway population growth and industrialization, and more and more energy consumption and CO2 and Hummers and can't walk to the 6 foot TV but I have a remote culture: What are the risks? Are we sure this is going to damage the ecosystem in the long run? Aren't we just some algae that mother nature can deal with without blinking?

And I dunno. Hard argument for either side to win. So instead of "what's the risk," my question is:

What's the benefit?

Jeezey peezey people, let's talk to the Pope, wear some condoms, get a same sex partner (a true environmentalists choice!), live a little more humbly, and look around in 100 years at a grove of trees swaying in the fresh air, rather than the cityscape of bladerunner. More and more and more economy and growth--will it make you happy? Or, to try to bring this back to the forums a little:

Do you need any of it to do Sanchin?

Ok so lets wait a billion years or so and see if we survive and then do something about

you won’t have to wait that long mate Species come and go for various reasons, I expect our time on earth to be like that of others short when measured against geological time.

Fine for you folks who don’t have holeole in the ozone layer on your doorstep

Yes we do right above us in the north. Last time I checked the pole is in our territorial waters. I think it’s always been there, it grows and it shrinks. We are in a grow phase and a warming phase.

I’m usually with ya mate but got to disagree here , I think the enviromental stuff gets taken way to far , a certain snail poster comes to mind , but when it comes to big business cutting back on waste and emissions I see no problems.

vive l'escargot ! Marcus you know me well enough to know if I’m anything, I’m a realist. You know where I come from and you know how I feel about the natural world. You also know I work in the waste industry and have spent some time studying environmental design. I have a good understanding of our impact on the planet.

Hey I’m not advocating poisoning the planet. If you schit in your drinking water you get sick. I’m suggesting that legislation and agreements like Kyoto are misguided. I don’t want to end up paying a gazillion dollars in levies and taxes etc for using diesel fuel because some bonehead politician is kowtowing to the eco vote.

most of the times it comes down to money , that’s it , profit margins , the whole we don’t understand bollocks is to easy , do some research and come up with a solution then ... this turn a blind eye stuff is nonsense .

Don’t’ forget buddy man bad animal good…and profit bad poverty good! I wonder when we used seashells as money if we still had a segment of society portraying seashell collection as inherently evil. What’s wrong with profit?

you must have noticed how quickly one gets a tan when in AUs .. It`s not a good thing ... NZ is even worse ... check on which countrys have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world

Hey I thought I got a tan in Oz because they have sun and it wasn’t winter If your concerned about skin cancer try wearing some clothing and sunscreen mate. Why is it that desert folks where robes and not speedo’s? Is it fashion or are they more in tune with their environment. The sun burns common sense 101. Other topics in sense 101 include don’t put rectal material in your well and don’t pump poison into the sky

the environment is being effected; the majority of the world has agreed to environmental measures

I agree we our poisoning out selves and need to rectify this. I do not agree that global warming is a huge problem. I totally disagree the majority of the world has agreed to any measures. Scientists are disagreeing so the data is questionable. China, ¾ of the worlds population has not signed off on the Kyoto protocol and neither has the USA . 3 billion people. The US economy is clean compared to 3rd world China burning wood, coal etc. I’m not sure where India and Africa stand but we both understand they are not known for non polluting heating and cooking methods. Energy in these nations is dirty.

So a whole bunch of tiny little countries like NZ, Canada etc. agree to reduce emissions. Well you know what mate. We are pissing in the wind taking a tinkle in the ocean. It means squat.

Hell if all of folks in Canada and New Zealand died tomorrow and stopped consuming energy. If we could stop the 36 million bodies from rotting and giving off any gases our reduction in emissions would not reduce the annual increase in emissions. The birthrate in the third world means more demands for cooking fires and dirty energy each year. The elimination of our energy consumption would not even off set the annual increase.

The solution is not putting out little pinkies in the dike my friend the solution is bringing the 3rd world counties up to modern standards. Turn them from backwater nations to modern nations. Could you imagine the reduction in emissions if China used clean energy to heat her daily meal? The problem is who is willing to give them the technology and fund it? Who wants the completion from a modern industrialized China? Everyone wants to sell to them but no one wants to compete with the third world on a level field.

The base problem in my book is the success of our species. We have done well with the help of technology. Now we live longer out young survive.. As a result there are too many of us. We choke on our own garbage. the issue is not your hummer its your humping that is creating the problem

BTW Marcus when are you going to park that BSA and start walking if you don't want a sun burn

This is how the system is supposed to work. Most species don’t schit in their own nest. Yes we do, and in the water we drink the food we eat and the air we breathe as well. This is indicative of too many rats in the cage my friend.

The ecosystem will help balance this, pandemic or extinction the earth has a remarkable ability to heal her wounds

heck I’m not saying save the snails

Damn glad to hear that mate! The local steams and hot pools are about knee deep in snail crap, who knows what horrible gases bubble to the surface. It’s getting so it’s not safe to walk about in your hip waders…….easy Mike! I’ve been known to hunt the odd trout…sheep don’t hang out in snail habitat

I’m saying don’t produce excess waste

Now Your just take food from my families mouth mate! Please create waste folks, we will be glad to help you haul it to the proper facility

Glad we didn't get any meat bad bean good posts yet.

I agree Bill millions of bison would have made smoking dangerous in much of the continent.

Yet the sky never fell.

Ian makes a valid point.

Marcus just in case people take your advice and stop creating waste and I'm out of work one day , I've decided to apply for government funding. I'm gonna study snail farts and their impact on the eco system.

Good market nitch, I'll be the only guy in my field , no competion, Should keep me going until the kids are educated and I'm retired. Hell as an expert high muckie muck dude I just might have to publish some literature and get me a phd, always thought I was expert material

Hanging out at the hot pools is kind of nice work if you can get it .

Ian wrote:Do you need any of it to do Sanchin?

Change from pigs to a bean culture, and we'll be going fron tsst to phfffttt.

- Bill

Hehehehehehe. This is great.

Personally, I do not think that mankind can really make much of a difference in the long run. Mother earth will prevail. I am not concerned about global warming except that the politicians may use it as a reason to raise taxes and create more regulations.

As far as my rant on methane, it was strictly meant as a red herring. No one bit. However, NOX is hundreds of times worse the CO2 and 75% of the emission comes from agriculture. Now what? Emissions of methane from cows or go vegen and polute with NOX.

Decisions, decisions.

Rich

Hey I thought I got a tan in Oz because they have sun and it wasn’t winter If your concerned about skin cancer try wearing some clothing and sunscreen mate. Why is it that desert folks where robes and not speedo’s? Is it fashion or are they more in tune with their environment. The sun burns common sense 101.

The time we can spend in the sun is hugely reduced here , and it hasnt been hundreds of years , not even a generation , its not just the normal sun , it`s the increase in UV rays , wearing clothing and sunscreen aint a choice but a requirement . Lots of places in the world with more sun and sun culture than NZ .

Don’t’ forget buddy man bad animal good…and profit bad poverty good! I wonder when we used seashells as money if we still had a segment of society portraying seashell collection as inherently evil. What’s wrong with profit?

nothing wrong with prfit , but not at my exspense , kyotos not about banning all emissions but reducing them , many countrys will meet the criteria , it`s not impossible . It`s workable and acheivable so I dont see the problem . I cant see it costing me a huge amount in the long term .

Moneys just not the huge problem in the world .....

BTW Marcus when are you going to park that BSA and start walking if you don't want a sun burn

your saying it polutes

If your saying a highly tuned peice of beauty like that is a big poluter I`d be surprised , motorbike=small

Marcus what you need is some good old fashioned smog to block those harmful rays (sorry can't help my self)

Hey glad you came clean about the sun in NZ. Guess I best come for a pig hunt soon. Just don't see it making the transition to an indoor event. I'll bring my hat

A highly tuned British bike is a temporary phenomenon at best.

- Bill

RA Castinet said:

For those of you who are parroting your political pundits I ask if you are certified and qualified to comment on the subject? What are your credentials?

I am a licensed engineer with 30 years of real world industrial experience in 'smokestack' industries. Plus, I have been involved in large projects pretty much everywhere in the world.

Well Rich. According to National Geographic there is some strong evidence to suggest the globe is warming. No offence but working for smoke stack industries makes you no more credible than the scientists that worked for the tobacco industry and said ciggarettes didn't cause cancer.

Here's a link to national geographics article. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... rming.html