Dragon-tsunami interview with Gushi Sensei

[Dana Sheets]

Ben, if you've ever seen video of Mr. Shinjo testing his brother you'll see him dig his fingers deep into the sides of his brother's neck.

In judo we used to train against an air choke by learning how to tuck down the chin and fill the throat with air and push out the neck muscles. The same thing for sanchin only you don't hold your breath.

It was a ridge hand to the front of my thoat. Not terribly hard, just a reminder tap to check for focus AFTER my teacher had felt my neck for focus. It usually follows the taps to the pecs. Best to trust your teacher/partner quite a bit for that one which is one of the reasons it isn't something we do until later on in training.

It is kind of like something Rory wrote once. It simulations he's seen "good" cops lie down and play dead after they've been shot. Because that's what happens when you're a kid. Some folks have a similar idea that a shot to the neck WILL take them out...so I see the tap to the neck and other somewhat soft areas as a way to help along the mindset of not deciding in advance which particular attack will stop you from doing what you need to do.

The way I see it -- one of the major sanchin body training benefits for altercations (beyond the obvious core strength gains) is that the body is somewhat habituated to incidental contact. So your body/mind/nervous system doesn't get shocked by feeling hits to random parts of your body that don't matter and you can focus on what does matter -- continuing the attack.

[benzocaine]

Thanks for helping me understand Dana.

[Bill Glasheen]

Jorvik

Get real. You ARE trolling. It's your typical "Mike Tyson would do this" rant.

I'll remind you that Mr. Tyson broke his hand in a street fight. A lot of good punching to the head did him... As far as I can see, from a self-defense standpoint you are giving bad advice.

Remember, boxing is a sport. Sport fighting and self-defense intersect to some degree in the Venn Diagram of martial space. But they are two entirely distinct entities with very different ends in mind. We've been over that ad nauseum.

Others have made equally valid points concerning your attempted hijacking of a perfectly reasonable thread.

If you want to get into some mental masturbation over how you will do in Mike Tyson with your own style of doom, then entertain us all with a new thread. If you can't take on Mike Tyson, then save your pointless rant!

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Ben

I'd be happy to show you the thready neck focus that Gushi is referring to in the Dragon Times article. There are also good pictures of such of students in the Futenma dojo in George's Uechiryu Karatedo.

Everyone's fixated on punching. Real self-defense has little to do with boxing. In many street-fight situations, grappling is just as likely to be found as striking. This would include attempts at gouging at the neck anatomy. Part of what one can learn with better control of the neck muscles are the following:

1) Being able to roll the head as needed when an incoming striking technique is missed. Head movement can be your last ditch response before bad things happen.

2) Being able to take a hard fall without getting whiplash or letting your head hit the ground.

3) Giving you an extra few seconds in an attempted "choke" situation. I can keep most beginner grappling students from executing a blood choke on me simply with good Sanchin neck control. A few seconds can matter.

4) Taking a bit of steam off of a good jaw shot. Part of what makes contre coup work is the uncontrolled whipping around of the head. Take a look at most good full contact strikers. See any pencil necks in the crowd?

5) Reducing the chance of a broken neck from various grappling maneuvers designed to separate neck from head. There's one such technique that actually was removed from early versions of Seichin kata. Rory taught us another one at camp.

In general, a good fighter wants to develop the entire body. There should be no weak links if at all possible. Tension exercises work well where weight training is difficult. And in general, it isn't easy to work the neck in the weight room without putting shear forces on the cervical discs which can accumulate to big problems over time.

- Bill

[AAAhmed46]

You know, boxers tend to break thier hands more because of the wraps.

According to Bas rutten, if you hit the heavy bag without hand wraps you can punch better and lower the chances of a broken hand.





But then again, Bas also hates katas .................


so that could be wrong

[Bill Glasheen]

Boxing is a sport where punching to the head gives you big returns. The head is a very hard, unforgiving object - particularly around the upper forehead and the mouth area. The wraps and the gloves give you a "bionic fist" which creates the sport venue we all love to watch.

Okinawan karate very much emphasizes makiwara training of the seiken fist. This is very different from what is done with boxing, where no hand conditioning is necessary (or developed). Furthermore, most knowledgeable Okinawan masters will tell you that punching techniques primarily were developed as body shots, and the famous Okinawan focused punch was developed to send force through the traditional body armor of that era.

We all can learn to use our palms to strike the head, and can develop our hands in myriad ways to use as tools to gouge, grab, and poke. That is the tradition of Kanbun's style, where much emphasis was placed on unglamorous but important conditioning methods used both for defense (when things go wrong) and offense (when one is in control). Most of us get the weekend tour of our martial art, and never place much emphasis on our Uechi hand tools. Some people do seem to get into beating and being beaten upon. It's a skill with SOME use, as is ukemi or any other auxiliary method.

Even in boxing, being able to take a hit is considered part of the game. I can still remember Howard Cosell ranting on in typical fashion against an aging George Foreman in the ring.



George was losing badly on points in a fight. Finally a bloodied Foreman got a single mighty shot in to the jaw of the opponent dominating him. Out went the lights! After it was over, Cosell belittled Foreman, and accused his "hapless" opponent of "not being able to take any kind of hit."

Meanwhile, George is George! He survived years of abuse in the ring because of his conditioning, and now makes a fortune selling hamburger grills. Good for him!



Even on these forums we need to thicken our skins a bit to play...

The way I view it in my personal training and that for my students, good conditioning of any kind reduces injuries. A reduced injury rate keeps us training in the dojo more. And more training means we get better at what we do. Meanwhile the fellow (or gal) who is always nursing some kind of bruise or muscle pull never quite gets past their many plateaus in their training.

If English was Mr. Gushi's first language and/or he had the academic training that most of us have been blessed with, he would be able to articulate his ideas more eloquently. It's up to us actually to meet these great men, approach them with an empty cup, humbly work with what they have to offer, and make our own decisions about what is relevant and what isn't. In the end, self-defense is about what gets you home safely, and not what scores you points in cyber sparring matches.

End of rant... Thanks for your indulgence.

- Bill

[John Giacoletti]

Well stated, Bill ...

If English was Mr. Gushi's first language and/or he had the academic training that most of us have been blessed with, he would be able to articulate his ideas more eloquently. It's up to us actually to meet these great men, approach them with an empty cup, humbly work with what they have to offer, and make our own decisions about what is relevant and what isn't.

And this is not to demean these Masters in anyway or imply that they are not intelligent. It seems to me that they have an uncanny survival sense and they will answer questions in a way that they feel meets the expectations of the person asking the question. The manner in which the question is asked effects and affects the outcome.

[Rick Wilson]

I do not agree with tensing either Ray so on that we agree; however, I see no reason Gushi needed to say he protects in this article. This is a fact I am sure he thinks is common sense (like your boxers.)

“but I am not against conditioning per se..........however, I want other stuff in my armoury......”

SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH ...

Okay folks you will have to pardon the tone here (Ray you can take it anyway you wish) but I, and numerous other actual Uechika have said what I am about to say numerous times:

Once again conditioning is one of Uechi’s tools just one Ray. I know many of us have said this to you many times.

I do not believe that the folk in your police reports chose to get hit so what happened?

Perhaps, they got hit any way. What an odd concept is that?

Perhaps had they conditioned (and the strike was not with a knife – your usual comeback) then may be they could have survived and maybe not – who knows I just know that when you hit unconditioned folk they tend to fold up and that just cannot be good for self protection.

Your all powerful boxers do not fold up because surprise surprise they get hit when they spar which one could almost say is a form of conditioning. They do it random and we do that as well but after a systematic base has been laid.

And and and and and before we hear it again – I train not to get hit but I am not so foolish to think in real life that will always be my choice.

We all get that you do not like to get hit Ray and I have no issue with that but time and time again we Uechika have tried to explain conditioning to you and you don’t get it.

And in truth there is no reason a non-Uechika has to get conditioning.

I guess I just sit back baffled as to why a non-Uechika keeps saying the same thing about conditioning over and over again after we Uechika have explained iover and over again where we Uechika come form on the subject.

We all get it Ray – you do not like conditioning.

You do not want to get hit in a fight so you do not feel any need to prepare for a hit.

That hit might be a knife like in the police reports you read – and then what?

We get it.

An article is only so long and one topic was covered. Gushi moves he does not stand and pound but if he is forced to he wants to prepare his body as much as possible.

An article is only so long Ray and the interviewer focused on what he saw.

So once again we Uechika have thrown information about conditioning out there and I already know to no avail

We all get that you just don’t like conditioning or see the need of it.

We Uechika do.

You are just going to have to live with that as fact just as we Uechika have to live with the fact you don’t.

[Stryke]

fairly clear and polite Rick

[sgoss1]

I trained with Gushi sensei for quite some time so I can understand exactly what he is saying (as I'm sure others do who have trained with him).

Gushi does not stand, fully tensed, when confronted. He will, however, become fully tensed at the point he is hit or at the point he gets to his opponent.

As he indicated in the interview, he does not practice "sport" karate. He is extremely fast and has a stong will. One could only hope to get to his head before he got to you.

He, like many Okinawan practitioners, practices conditioning on a regular basis. I've been tested by Okinawans, many small of stature, who could easily break my arm with the (thumb side) of their wrists (and I'm not a small person).

One should train with these individuals to appreciate their dedication and what they have gone through. And what they can teach the rest of us.

No one is indestructible, but some are harder to handle than others. It is difficult to understand the messages passed from verbal to written without having met and trained with individuals such as Gushi and other Okinawan masters.

sgoss

[Bill Glasheen]

ST. LOUIS (AP) - Chicago Cubs general manager Jim Hendry was at home watching on television when his team's season took a potentially devastating blow.

He didn't need a replay to realize Derrek Lee was seriously injured. Lee, the NL batting champion and two-time Gold Glove first baseman, will be sidelined at least two months with two broken bones above his right wrist. His glove hand was bent backward in a collision with Rafael Furcal of the Dodgers at first base on Wednesday.

I saw this injury happen on film. What was shocking (to me) was not so much the very ugly way the end of his arm just flopped over with both bones broken as much as what little contact it took to snap both bones.

I am convinced this man would not be nursing this injury today had he practiced Uechi kotekitae on a regular basis. Bones lay down calcium along the lines of force. Without moderate stress on the bones, they become weaker. (I'd be happy to articulate the mechanism by which this happens.)

Does this happen in real fights as well? Absolutely. It happened to someone I knew at U.Va. who was stupid enough to flip off a redneck when driving his date home. As soon as he got out of his car, the redneck accosted him.

I visited this fellow in the hospital where he was being treated for a very nasty broken leg.

Stuff happens. Conditioning is available to both competitive athletes and martial artists alike to help prevent injuries.

* Boxers hit each other both in the ring, and with medicine balls as part of their training.

* Spring and summer for football players is about lifting weights. But a football player does not go out onto the field without contact training.

* Judo players pactice falling. Ukemi is nothing more than allowing yourself to get hit with a high-speed mat. As Einstein would say, it's all relative.

There's no mystery here. There's no hype. There's only nit-picking about packaging of the methodology.

- Bill

[Rick Wilson]

"There's no mystery here. There's no hype. There's only nit-picking about packaging of the methodology."