Shaven Armpits

[IJ]

"The problem with trying to suppress instincts programmed into us - and downright shunning people for even mentioning them - is that sometimes we prevent people from doing what they need to do in their own self interest. If you're obese, you're obese. You are less fertile, and you will die earlier. Read it and weep. Get over it, and get your ass to the gym. Stop eating crap. Turn off your TV. Don't blame someone else."

Well, we have an instinct to try to appear attractive, which in some circles means foot binding (in the West we have high heels), corsets, shaved armpits, applying strange pigments to our faces, tanning, elective surgery, and that sort of thing. Those aren't always helpful instincts (overeating was adaptive back in the days of frequent famine, but its an instinct to avoid today). If the instinct is to get FIT to be attractive, its helping out... but its the culture that's good not the instinct. Because the attractiveness instinct has at times meant trying to be obese (that has been sexy) and smoking, or for many today, having anorexia nervosa or bulemia (people who can't tell the difference between skinniness and fitness). In short, we should cultivate a society that values health and fitness, and then nuture the desire to be attractive.

Ideally we'd have someone unfit (obese or skinny but deconditioned, either one) see Johnny desirously eyeing a Susan who's in shape, but not stressed to amenorrhea, and complimenting her prowess with sanseiryu, and have the unfit person motivated to improve their health to compete. [Change genders around as needed]. That's healthy peer pressure

[Bill Glasheen]

Because the attractiveness instinct has at times meant trying to be obese (that has been sexy) and smoking, or for many today, having anorexia nervosa or bulemia (people who can't tell the difference between skinniness and fitness).

The interesting thing about this, Ian, is that most guys can. For a lot of women, the "ideal" is the anorexic model on the cover of magazines. But a man's ideal of a woman is very different from the ideal that these women consider. And at the end of the day, that male version of the female ideal tends to be more correlated with fitness and/or fertility. And that ain't a bad thing.

What I can never figure out is men who are attracted to stupid women and/or are threatened by intelligent ones. Go figure...

- Bill

[chef]

I would think that those men who are threatened by intelligent women must be very insecure about themselves. Possibly, they feel stupid or inadequate in some way and are reminded of what they perceive they lack when the are confronted with that very thing....be it good looks, a bright mind, a disciplined physique. People have a tendency for 'projection'.....or if it is a trait they don't like about themselves, they don't like it in others.

As a young pre-adolescent girl, I was teased a lot about having big lips. I could not stand that about me and found it unappealing in other s when I saw it....now, people are paying for it, go figure. Thank goodness that changed.

I am so forgetful and have a tendency to be impatient with my daughter when she displays those same traits. We all do some sort of pre-conceived judging for one thing or another, don't we?

Hmmm.....
Vicki

[Bill Glasheen]

Larger lips and lips that swell with attraction are part of the whole fertility picture. It's the same thing as blood flowing to other parts of the body, pupils dilating, etc. Those are the signals that men and women unknowingly send to each other. That's amore!

The thing that I find funny is that many people haven't a clue. Things "happen", and they can't see why.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

As a young pre-adolescent girl, I was teased a lot about having big lips.

Ha…. _ Hot lips Vicky_

[cdoucet]

he interesting...

I've been shaving my armpits since about college.. can't really stand to lift my arms and a wad of hair coming jutting out.

I've shaved my chest.... never agian will I do that... gets sooooo itchy.. and i look like a damn chicken...

chris

[AAAhmed46]

I do it, because kasushi sakuraba's armpit hair really really makes me retch.

Can you imagine getting put into a guillitine with him? Eww...

[JimHawkins]

When I was in college I was introduced to a "sub set" of women folk who did NOT shave their legs or armpits.. They felt that un-shaven legs in particular was sexy. If this wasn't enough they would wear "nude" hosiery that would reveal mashed leg hair under the hosiery--the combination was enough to make me want to vomit..

I kept telling this one girl that I knew to shave her legs but she liked it that way and thought is was sexy..

Go figure..

As for men being afraid of assertive or intelligent women:

This is true mainly when the men are NOT..

I'm sure there are exceptions but I find that it is simply a function of what the man has got to work with. There has to be a balance and each sex will be aware of any imbalance.

Men and women each have their own vision of what it means to *be* a man or woman and be special in that way. In other words a man or woman does not simply wish to be recognized as a "good person" he/she wants to be recognized as a "good man" or a "good woman" with each sex/culture having their own set of special traits that they associate with man-hood or women-hood and being good at it.. This is key to each sex living up to their ideal of who and what they believe they should be in their sex roles--assuming there are no complications.

Men and women are also is pressured by society to fulfill a cultural role and each is normally thought to be superior in certain aspects--and they often are. Not always true or fixed exactly the same for everyone but in general true for most cultures.

Strong relationships are built on respect and admiration, among the partners.. But the traits that make this a sexual reality are often sex specific. Most men want to be seen as "manly" whatever that means to the individual, but that does mean something specific to them, and it will be vital to their self esteem.

Men may want to be seen as "strong", "decisive", "in control of themselves", "worldly", "knowledgeable in areas of importance", or name your manly trait, etc, by others but *especially* by their mate.. This is not something likely to happen if the woman is better educated and/or much more intelligent unless she is willing to play dumb and that does nothing to foster respect of her partner. In that case there is an imbalance--and one that probably won't make for a strong relationship.

How many smart, attractive and well educated women are going to be swept off their feet by a man with a level of intelligence they recognize as being clearly less than their own?

Not many.

How many women, if asked, would like a man who they felt was a little "smarter" or say "more worldly" than they? Probably a lot more women than men would find this desirable in their partner--it's just the nature of the sexes, the male ego and part of the roles of men and women and who they need to be.

Men normally prefer to be at least lightly taller than their woman, and most women also prefer their man to be slightly taller.. Why? Such a trivial thing... But this is true for most and overlaps into many other areas of intellectual or emotional specialization, again not for everyone but for many.

Equality sounds great but men and women are very different emotionally and intellectually. Not to say one is superior because this is not the case. Each sex has strengths and weaknesses in different areas of specialization which is why after all we need each other, work best together, and in the end are two halves of one human whole..

These traditional roles are in part learned in culture but also part of millions of years of evolution. Each sex had a very important role to play in survival over the millennia and is why there are males and females to begin with because each sex specialized in certain key areas of the survival of the family--men and women aside from their organs are NOT the same--even at birth there are clear personality differences that are real and clear. Today, because of perhaps too much cognitive re-evaluation of these things and due to various external social forces <brainwashing> we are torn between what we *think* we should be and what we are, based on millions of years of evolution.

Or at least that's what it said in one of them books they made me read in college..

Silly humans..

[IJ]

"These traditional roles are in part learned in culture but also part of millions of years of evolution. Each sex had a very important role to play in survival over the millennia and is why there are males and females to begin with because each sex specialized in certain key areas of the survival of the family."

This of course begs the question of why gender roles are so different in different areas of the world. The concept of beauty, for one, varies all over the place. Westerners often think a muslim scarf is a sign of female subjugation, but they generally expect to see women wearing tops, but men not, on the beach--what's the difference? There are some constants, however... breast feeding is better for baby, unless mom has HIV, and when mom is breast feeding, she's busier--and the male will do more hunter-gathering. Needn't always be that way but its understandable. Incest is frowned upon so universally that the exception or two happily proves the rule. But in any case we have to be very careful about deciphering which traditions are "biologically" justifiable or at least explained, and which are sheer culture and potentially awful, even if people in that culture cannot always see it--foot binding and female circumcision come to mind.

"Men and women aside from their organs are NOT the same--even at birth there are clear personality differences that are real and clear. Today, because of perhaps too much cognitive re-evaluation of these things and due to various external social forces <brainwashing> we are torn between what we *think* we should be and what we are, based on millions of years of evolution."

Well, we are each part of groups, and also individuals. I wouldn't let my membership in the ostensibly smaller, weaker, more deferential sex affect my life choices if I happened to be a 6'4" tough and aggressive woman who could sink 3 pointers from midcourt, you know? This is the big fallacy of "The Bell Curve;" go ahead, state that african americans (or irish catholics in ireland) have an IQ gap on average with caucasians (or protestant irish) but whatever the group averages say, whenever you hire or fire, date or marry or divorce, etc, you do so with individuals, not groups, and you ought to decide (for reasons of logic and of justice) to look at the individual and not decide based on statistics (aka prejudice).

"Each sex has strengths and weaknesses in different areas of specialization which is why after all we need each other, work best together, and in the end are two halves of one human whole."

That's certainly one model that's been successful in many places. But it is not the only. There are many ways people can complement each other and many same sex couples have no stereotypical roles, although some do. And while we can wax poetic about the complementing roles of male and female in development, the same group of people who are pushing to outlaw same sex marriage in the USA are also generally against aggressive birth control and STD prevention efforts, including among people who are too young, too high, too unemployed or undereducated, too ill, or too uncaring to have a reasonable chance to successfully raise children. And how much sense does that make?