Quirky Sparring

[Icebladeraptor9]

To JimHawkins, I'm around 6'1, 160 lbs, mostly muscle and the sensei's at my school are ummm, how do I put it, a little liability concerned when it comes to sparring, so no take downs are allowed, unless the sensei uses it on you which is not fair. The techniques I use work fine in a fight, but I'd prefer to use actual self defense techniques, such as elbows, knees strikes, breaking bones, etc. I just wear a mouthgard when I spar, if someone hits me in the crotch then I hit them back, hard, because I'm pissed. I have been training a little over 4 years and I started back around April when I was in the 6th grade, and now I am in the 11th. The junior students often flinch and cower when I go near full speed so, I always work my timing with them, and I've got decent timing and speed, I'm set in terms of power, but I never use it. I know where the better people are because I try and work with them when I can. The full contact training is making me a little bit nervous, because I don't like getting hit, but who does, and I have never seen it done at the dojo I attend. By coolest strikes, I mean stuff like wauke's, elbows, bushikens (I hope I spelled that right) and chops. I like striking to the throat, but there aren't many people who are taller than me, so its a bit of a problem. By lethal or crippling strikes, I mean bushiken to the throat or elbow to the throat in a spear style block, as by crippling I mean something such as elbow directly to the sternum, sleeper hold, breaking a knee or arm, that sort of thing.

I know no way of testing such moves except performing them extremely lightly or stopping just before hitting. I don't always know it will work, but some of the techniques have been taught to me by high level black belts, Sensei Gary Khoury, and Sensei Vinny Christianno, others I have just figured out on my own. Trick moves usually bore me, I am not going to waste my time with something really flashy, especially if it doesn't work. When I spar, I usually distract someone with my hands and then blast a kick in with some hand techniques, or vice versa, sometimes I can just get a kick in anyways, I pretty much taught myself how to spar by emulating others who are better than me and taking their techniques that I like and worked on me. Obviously I use some moves from sparring drills that are taught, but they aren't my favorite "tools in my toolbox" to quote one of my senseis. I like how I spar, except for me hitting so light. I want to learn everything, but no one can learn everything so I make do with where I am at the moment.

To Jorvik, there are only a few kickers at the dojo I attend (I am one of them), and I have trained against them, and they all have different speed and targeting areas, one of them is a head shorter than me and can kick me in the head when in boxing range. I've got well above average skills for my rank from what I have seen in both kicking and boxing, most brown belts have neither and have bad stances and or flinch really badly, thankfully my stance and guard is good and I don't flinch anymore when sparring (I broke that habit a loooooooooong time ago).

To Bill Glasheen, getting into a fight around here on the streets would mean I'd need my knives, potentially a gun, because most of the people out on the street to fight are armed, stoned out of their minds, and don't give a rat's tail end about going to jail, so I'm going to stay away from that option unless I have to. If I get someone in the balls and their head is down in front of me they get to say hello to my hammerstrike, and anyone at the dojo I train at can attest to my crazyness and power when I hit with those. (there goes my hubris running away again) If I knew who the Rich Castanet person is, I'd talk to him, because Marine martial arts look awesome. I've worked with my cousin who is attending Ranger School in a few months, and he has been taught a few techniques and he showed them to me and they are nasty, and fun to practice.

Once again, thank you all for the advice, I'm appreciating it and already working it in to my training

Justin R.

[Bill Glasheen]

I left Rich a message on his answering machine. He'll be by.

- Bill

[Icebladeraptor9]

Awesome, thank you

Justin R.

[jorvik]

Icebladeraptor
I don't know how to say this without sounding like I'm patronising you ..........and this is not my intention. On these fora you will speak with folks who have a great deal more knowledge than I have.Bill knows loads about training, physioliogy and is in great shape, and has even got into one shot knockouts.and there are other folks who each know a lot Rich has association with the US marines and is skilled in handguns/firearms.as is Van and Panther.there are other contributors who can offer a wealth of knowledge, and of course GEM who is responsible for a;; of this .....our Canadian friends especially and of course Jim and his knowledge of TCM.
point I'm making ........self recommendation is no recomendation. I don't dismiss any opinion or idea..simply because I'm into this for the long run i.e. life.I've got an artificial hip because I was a smart arse and I could kick way beyond what I could do .....and so have many greats Chuck Norris,Bill Wallace etc........there is a saying in my country
"The Owl is a Wise old Bird
The more heard the less he said
The less he said the more he heard
Why don't you be like that wise old bird?"
if you are in it for the long run the ndo that

[RACastanet]

My ears were burning...

Rich

[Valkenar]

I just wear a mouthgard when I spar, if someone hits me in the crotch then I hit them back, hard, because I'm pissed.

Instead of hitting them, why not just tell them that you're not going to spar with them any more? If someone's intentionally hitting you in the groin when they know you don't have a cup then it's perfectly reasonable to be angry, but being angry doesn't mean you have to act like a jerk. Or if it's an accident then why even be mad at all, unless maybe you know that they have good control and are just being careless?

As for coming down to see how fast you are, I'm not really interested if it's going to be an ego competition, or if you're going to get pissed and hit me hard if I do something you don't like, but I am interested if it's going to be two people working together and challenging themselves. That said, I can't make any definite promises about coming down. I have wanted to get to Gary's regularly for a while, but the distance makes that hard.

Best of luck in your training.

[Willy]

I hate guys who just dance around

Monkey Dance

[Icebladeraptor9]

I just wear a mouthgard when I spar, if someone hits me in the crotch then I hit them back, hard, because I'm pissed.

Instead of hitting them, why not just tell them that you're not going to spar with them any more? If someone's intentionally hitting you in the groin when they know you don't have a cup then it's perfectly reasonable to be angry, but being angry doesn't mean you have to act like a jerk. Or if it's an accident then why even be mad at all, unless maybe you know that they have good control and are just being careless?

As for coming down to see how fast you are, I'm not really interested if it's going to be an ego competition, or if you're going to get pissed and hit me hard if I do something you don't like, but I am interested if it's going to be two people working together and challenging themselves. That said, I can't make any definite promises about coming down. I have wanted to get to Gary's regularly for a while, but the distance makes that hard.

Best of luck in your training.

I knew I forgot to say something, usually when I get mad, its when they hit me there twice because the people aren't flexible enough to kick me in a point range and its after I have told them to watch it or be careful. I never go down ego trips when I spar because I know what happens on an ego trip in sparring and its never good, a friend of mine and I did that once and we were both all bruised and banged up afterwards. I am always interested in working with new people because I always learn something and, if I'm lucky, the person learns something from me

Justin R.

[jorvik]

Justin R
there is nothing wrong in hitting someone who has hit you ...in fact where I come from that is taken as a given for a couple of reasons, they shouldn't have hit you in the first place it showed lack of control and disrespect and it is a bad habit to get into...not hitting back
I remember years back saprring with a Uechi black belt I was wearing a white belt all though I was a brown belt at Goju at the time, thisguy was a bodbuilder and all of a sudden lashed out with a really strong front kick which caught me in the stomache.................I didn't want to hit back because he was sooooooo big .but I was annoyed and felt that if I didn't I would have no spirit, so I kicked him as hard as I could across the top part of his shins with my full shin............he went the colour of boiled scheitt .....seems I'd hit a nerve centre

[miked]

Justin,

It is not clear from your messages as to how many dojos you have experienced (within or without Uechi).

It does appear that you may be limiting yourself.

My recommendation would be to find the best training partners that are available that are comfortable with the hard hitting style that you seem to enjoy.

You may wish to explore other disciplines such as Muay Thai and kickboxing that do allow full body contact with knees, elbows and such.

There is no reason you should limit yourself to the practice of Uechi, keeping in mind that it is difficult for a dog to chase two rabbits.

Al the best,

Mike D.
Los Angeles

[Stryke]

I dont really get the problem here .

You want more contact then do it .
Find some folks to train with .

get out there and go , Youve mentioned folks with a lack of control ? , well fight em , match there level , dont escalate but give what you get . Oh and wear a cup !!!!

Enter the tournaments , dont put it off because someones a tough bastard , or out ranks , or even if youll get your ass handed to you on a plate it`s a learning curve .

fighting without getting hit is like swimming without getting wet .

at some stage if you want to be a decent swimmer youve got to get your ass in the pool .

Youve got some fine teachers by reputation , talk to them about it , they may be able to put your feet on the ground , or point you in the right direction .


Any kind of contact sport might give you an outlet , maybe there some BJJ in your area you can get some physical confrontation/outlet and enhance your overall game . Muay Thai or boxing sounds good .

The crippling move stuff sounds a bit Naive IMHO you only really get a chance to use that stuff when youve got all the other skills needed in a contact fight . It`s good stuff to study , I use Bushikens and shokens and stuff all the time in sparring

I`d say get stuck in , do your grading , and diversify your training , and dont be afraid to talk to your teachers about this .

your Young and confident and want more , It`s normal , been there , you got to realise if your comitted and wanting the whole package youll probably have to look at different places for different peices . Just dont burn any bridges and take the peice that is offered .

I am surprised about the contact and Uechi thing though , I`ve always thought of Uechi as a true hard style of karate full of contact and conditioning .


I apologise If I seem abrupt or dismissive , just a brain dump , feel free to dismiss it all as worng in accord .

I think it`s true that when the students ready the teacher will appear . But you got to do the looking .

[miked]

I am also surprised about the comments concerning the level of contact that Justin refers to in his messages within the Uechi environment.

I am aware that Justin's instructors are fine practitioners and I suspect that they want to be sure that Justin develops great control before they let him loose. I also believe that his instructors are making sure he has good grounding in all of the basics (including ring strategy and the mastering of techniques).

Liability does sometimes play a role in the manner in which Uechi-ryu sparring is conducted in some dojos but the donning of protective gear should mitigate any liability issues.

Any comments from those of you who have purchased dojo insurance? What is the level of contact that is allowed under the terms of your insurance policy and what gear is required to comply with the policy?

Regards,

Mike DeDonato
Los Angeles

[Icebladeraptor9]

To miked, 1 dojo because, a. its expensive, b. my parents made me wait a while to join. c. from what I have been told, the other dojos in my immediate vicinity are crap
I know a few people that can take my hits, but, it's hard for me to get the time to spar with them. If I knew of a Muay Thai or kickboxing dojo in my area, I would definately check it out, but I'd need more money, ie, I'd need to get a job because I doubt my parents would pay for it Control is emphasized constantly, and even when I show good control, I am told to slow it down so I don't make contact, and yet, I have never once made contact as a higher ranking belt when I don't want to. I will never master a technique, because in my belief, its impossible to truly master something, I've got good ring strategy, my speed usually knocks people out of the ring but against one of my senseis, this doesn't work, so I'd have to work on that.
From what I know about the liability and all that, the junior students are required to wear gear, unless its an adult, then its their prerogative.

To Stryke, I can't stand cups they are the biggest pain in the butt, however, I probably need one with all the short people who tend to kick at that level. The tough bastard with a lack of control has since left the dojo thankfully, he hurt so many people, it was bs that he was never kicked out. What is BJJ? I've never seen that acronym. I've used a bushiken in sparring but never a shoken because of how my gloves are shaped, and it never really seemed to have a point in sparring, but now I'm going to try it in sparring, you got my brain working.
In conditioning, we hit hard, there is no real supervision except the weaker student dictates the speed and strength.
I am most definately speaking with my teachers about this sometime this week.

Once again thank you all for the advice, just by the advice given on here, I think that I have already improved myself


Justin R.

(Sorry the post was so verbose, I like to type)

[Jake Steinmann]

BJJ= Brazillian Ju Jitsu.

Sityodtong Muay Thai Academy is located in Somerville, MA. Obviously, if the money/time thing is an issue, that won't help you, but if that's what you're looking for, that's where we are.

[Bruise* Lee]

I have experienced something like this before -

One solution is only target areas that are hard to really hurt - extremities like the arms and thighs for example. You can pretty much punch the shoulder in sparring like you would the face in a fight. Although some may disagree, it does not take much to transition your techniques from a shoulder area to the face in a real fight.

Another is sparring games. I will see if I can find a post I made on various sparring games and post a link here. We had a ton of sparring games. My favorite was running the gauntlet - where the whole class would line up facing the wall, about 5 feet from it - you had to walk between the students and the wall defending yourself - I liked to grab the first person and put them in a full nelson and walk down the gauntlet with my back to the wall and let them take the punches for me If you are playing sparring games you often get lost in the game and forget you are punching and kicking someone.