Cardio after an injured ankle?

[JimHawkins]

What about kata-aerobics?

I've always used forms to get a more interesting solo workout that has a variety of different kinds of movements and requires no equipment... Cycling through different kata in a cyclic fashion can really get the heart going, can be regulated in terms of intensity and works lots of different muscles and joints without any real high impact issues...

[Bill Glasheen]

What about kata-aerobics?

Kata aerobics is an oxymoron. The aerobic band of the energy spectrum doesn't provide the power needed to do effective technique.

You will not find a marathon runner winning the high jump, and vice versa.

Interval training with karate, while staying in the phosphocreatine and glycolytic energy bands, IS a very effective and efficient way both to do effective martial arts and to get in great physical shape. This is the same thing we were telling Vicki to do with exercises and/or weights.

- Bill

[Jason Rees]

I haven't seen a body of work in the peer-reviewed literature which supports that statement. If you could provide some references, I'd appreciate it.

Sure thing. While I look that up, let me clarify that I'm not advocating aerobic over anaerobic training. A person needs a balance of both; and even combined they're not enough to prepare someone for a grueling all-out fight lasting over a minute, especially starting out on the losing end.

[Jason Rees]

Kawano H, H Tanaka and M Miyachi. Resistance training and arterial compliance: Keeping the benefits while minimizing the stiffening. J Hypertens, 24:1753-1759, 2006

Okamoto T, M Masuhara and K Ikuta. Effects of eccentric and concentric resistance training on arterial stiffness. J Hum Hypertens. 20:348-354, 2006

Okamoto T, M Masuhara and K Ikuta. Combined aerobic and resistance training and vascular function: effect of aerobic exercice before and after resistance training. J Appl Physiol, 103: 1655-1661, 2007

Kingwell BA. Large artery stiffness: Implications for exercise capacity and cardiovascular risk. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol, 29:24-217, 2002

About a dozen references like these available at the end of Thomas Fahey's article in the May 2008 Fitness Rx for Men.

[JimHawkins]

Kata aerobics is an oxymoron. The aerobic band of the energy spectrum doesn't provide the power needed to do effective technique.

I think that may well depend on the form and or kata. Some seem hard to label.. Our first form? Very internal very relaxed--very slow at times--but you sweat.

The level of energy in use isn't like turning on a water faucet full blast for the duration of the forms I know.

Our second form is a mix of energy release/use (yang) and being loose and relaxed emphasis on positions--no dynamic tension.. (yin) I don't see why the form couldn't be played at a level that would be some aerobic combination of explosiveness and relaxed/loose movement--what's 'boxing aerobics' but shadow boxing--forms.

[Bill Glasheen]

Jim

Aerobic metabolism can only be achieved by maintaining the heart-rate in a specific band for an extended period of time. Relaxation isn't going to cut it. And explosiveness cannot be achieved when (for instance) running long distance.

If you want to lift weights, lift weights. If you want to do aerobics, do aerobics. If you want to do martial arts, do martial arts. Trying to achieve more than one of these at the same time creates issues. Compromises will need to be made.

Because I've always believed that form must follow function, I've never bought into the whole karate aerobics thing. Yes, I can make people work until they puke when - for instance - doing kicking exercises. But that's really more about interval training. That's a lot like the feeling I got when I did interval training in track. But that's SPRINT, relax, SPRINT, relax, SPRINT , relax. That ain't no jogging.

Bill

[jorvik]

What about exercises which do both ? e.g kettlebells

[Bill Glasheen]

What about exercises which do both ? e.g kettlebells

Both what?

Kettlebells are just another form of resistance training. I put that kind of training in the same category as some of the classic Olympic-style exercises. It's a step beyond simple strength training. It gets a little more into the use of the core, essential synergy, and in some cases power.

It is however possible to use light weights to do aerobics.

- Bill

[JimHawkins]

Jim

Aerobic metabolism can only be achieved by maintaining the heart-rate in a specific band for an extended period of time. Relaxation isn't going to cut it. And explosiveness cannot be achieved when (for instance) running long distance.

If you want to lift weights, lift weights. If you want to do aerobics, do aerobics. If you want to do martial arts, do martial arts. Trying to achieve more than one of these at the same time creates issues. Compromises will need to be made.

Because I've always believed that form must follow function, I've never bought into the whole karate aerobics thing. Yes, I can make people work until they puke when - for instance - doing kicking exercises. But that's really more about interval training. That's a lot like the feeling I got when I did interval training in track. But that's SPRINT, relax, SPRINT, relax, SPRINT , relax. That ain't no jogging.

Bill

Yes, but the "rests" and "releases" are intermixed throughout, much different than sprinting and resting--much different than working till you puke--I can't see how you could compare these.

For example if you do the second form correctly, rinse, repeat, IMO it's aerobic. I don't see how it could be otherwise really, so long as you invest enough energy to maintain the heart rate.

There is no burnout, extreme release of continued max power, tension, etc, in any of the empty hand sets I refer to.. I see these kinds of sets as offering an exercise option for those who train them anyway.

[jorvik]

Quote
"Both what? "





Cardio and strength
...............
http://www.artofstrength.com/Videos/Ket ... fault.aspx

they use weights but for 2 minute rounds of exercise so you get a good cardio workout and a strength workout, a bit like circuit training

[Bill Glasheen]

Both what?

Cardio and strength

You can get that by staying in the anaerobic range with interval training.

Once you go totally aerobic, the intensity level goes down. That's the way our biology works.

Yes, but the "rests" and "releases" are intermixed throughout, much different than sprinting and resting--much different than working till you puke--I can't see how you could compare these.

You just witnessed it.

It's a matter of whether or not you're giving your body a chance to re-load the anaerobic biochemical pathways for explosive output. If you do, then you're not doing pure aerobics.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Energy Pathways

Because the body can not easily store ATP (and what is stored gets used up within a few seconds), it is necessary to continually create ATP during exercise. In general, the two major ways the body converts nutrients to energy are:

* Aerobic metabolism (with oxygen)
* Anaerobic metabolism (without oxygen)

These two pathways can be further divided. Most often it's a combination of energy systems that supply the fuel needed for exercise, with the intensity and duration of the exercise determining which method gets used when.


ATP-CP Anaerobic Energy Pathway

The ATP-CP energy pathway (sometimes called the phosphate system) supplies about 10 seconds worth of energy and is used for short bursts of exercise such as a 100 meter sprint. This pathway doesn't require any oxygen to create ATP. It first uses up any ATP stored in the muscle (about 2-3 seconds worth) and then it uses creatine phosphate (CP) to resynthesize ATP until the CP runs out (another 6-8 seconds). After the ATP and CP are used the body will move on to either aerobic or anaerobic metabolism (glycolysis) to continue to create ATP to fuel exercise.


Anaerobic Metabolism - Glycolysis

The anaerobic energy pathway, or glycolysis, creates ATP exclusively from carbohydrates, with lactic acid being a by-product. Anaerobic glycolysis provides energy by the (partial) breakdown of glucose without the need for oxygen. Anaerobic metabolism produces energy for short, high-intensity bursts of activity lasting no more than several minutes before the lactic acid build-up reaches a threshold known as the lactate threshold and muscle pain, burning and fatigue make it difficult to maintain such intensity.


Aerobic Metabolism

Aerobic metabolism fuels most of the energy needed for long duration activity. It uses oxygen to convert nutrients (carbohydrates, fats, and protein) to ATP. This system is a bit slower than the anaerobic systems because it relies on the circulatory system to transport oxygen to the working muscles before it creates ATP. Aerobic metabolism is used primarily during endurance exercise, which is generally less intense and can continue for long periods of time.

- Energy Pathways for Exercise

[chef]

So, if the fat is deposited due to cortisol, can you reverse the effects of this?

Regards,
Vicki

[Bill Glasheen]

So, if the fat is deposited due to cortisol, can you reverse the effects of this?

1) Burn more calories than you consume.

2) Reduce your stress. (Good luck on that... )

[chef]

So once the cortisol starts its nasty little work, assuming I have burned it off, and reduced the stress, should my body system say "Stop" to it or does the system want to continue producing it, having been doing it?

Vicki