Cecil,
You ask an important and difficult to answer question. You correctly identify that, in the moment, perception is everything.
How the "the crowd" perceive the woman? How do they perceive the young man? Often Volume makes right in a bar, so whoever is shouting the most will be believed.
I've never had to deal with this particular situation, but what comes to my mind is that the young man should try to get the bartender involved. Tell the bartender that they think drugs have been used on a woman, that she is no longer sensible, and that you're trying to get her out of there before something bad happens.
Hopefully the bartender will be your ally and not just blow you off as an ignorant.
What other suggestions do people have?
Dana
Dape Rape Drugs
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Dape Rape Drugs
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dana Sheets:
SNIP
I've never had to deal with this particular situation, but what comes to my mind is that the young man should try to get the bartender involved. Tell the bartender that they think drugs have been used on a woman, that she is no longer sensible, and that you're trying to get her out of there before something bad happens.
Hopefully the bartender will be your ally and not just blow you off as an ignorant.
What other suggestions do people have?
Dana<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dana-Sensei,
You have a very valid tactic in getting the bartender involved. Many states, thanks to MADD, have what are called "dram shop" laws, which make the bartender and the establishment liable for any accidents, etc. that happen to patrons who have been "over served."
Many bartenders take this issue very seriously and will often help the person who appears to be drugged or overserved to get to a place of safety, like into a cab home, call a family member, etc.
In one case I was peripherally involved in (as one of the entertainers in a pub), the bartender went so far as to actually get the bouncers to escort the lady to the hospital for a work up. At the bar's expense.
She had been drugged. We caught the guy who did it. He is now in jail.
Nuff said.
Great advice!!
Sincerely,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
SNIP
I've never had to deal with this particular situation, but what comes to my mind is that the young man should try to get the bartender involved. Tell the bartender that they think drugs have been used on a woman, that she is no longer sensible, and that you're trying to get her out of there before something bad happens.
Hopefully the bartender will be your ally and not just blow you off as an ignorant.
What other suggestions do people have?
Dana<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dana-Sensei,
You have a very valid tactic in getting the bartender involved. Many states, thanks to MADD, have what are called "dram shop" laws, which make the bartender and the establishment liable for any accidents, etc. that happen to patrons who have been "over served."
Many bartenders take this issue very seriously and will often help the person who appears to be drugged or overserved to get to a place of safety, like into a cab home, call a family member, etc.
In one case I was peripherally involved in (as one of the entertainers in a pub), the bartender went so far as to actually get the bouncers to escort the lady to the hospital for a work up. At the bar's expense.
She had been drugged. We caught the guy who did it. He is now in jail.
Nuff said.
Great advice!!
Sincerely,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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tunetigress
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Dape Rape Drugs
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2Green:
I've spent the majority of my life as an entertainer/rock player in bars.
My advice is: if you can discretely help someone who is inadvertantly drugged-up, do it. Don't be such a slime as to try to take advantage of a person who is incapacitated.
The reason I say "discretely" is; back in the 70's our bass player took a girl back to his room. The next night we had a parade of bikers making finger-guns to us on stage.
She was a "girlfriend" to one of the gang, and they tied her to a chair and punched her until she told them who took her "home".
So: help "conventionally"..."let's get you a cab"..."perhaps this doorman can find your car"..."are any of your friends with you?... that sort of thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is excellent advice in these days of 'liability' lawsuits as well! Hadn't thought of that but there are really lots of different ways to come to a person's aid! _(_)_ Tune
------------------
I've spent the majority of my life as an entertainer/rock player in bars.
My advice is: if you can discretely help someone who is inadvertantly drugged-up, do it. Don't be such a slime as to try to take advantage of a person who is incapacitated.
The reason I say "discretely" is; back in the 70's our bass player took a girl back to his room. The next night we had a parade of bikers making finger-guns to us on stage.
She was a "girlfriend" to one of the gang, and they tied her to a chair and punched her until she told them who took her "home".
So: help "conventionally"..."let's get you a cab"..."perhaps this doorman can find your car"..."are any of your friends with you?... that sort of thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is excellent advice in these days of 'liability' lawsuits as well! Hadn't thought of that but there are really lots of different ways to come to a person's aid! _(_)_ Tune
------------------
Dape Rape Drugs
Wow, complex issue, huh? Couple of important points from my perspective:
1) Rohypnol is a benzodiazepine. People who get drugged or look drugged or are otherwise acting funny routinely get a "U tox" or urine tox as well as a serum tox screen at the ER. Benzos are included. The test doesn't specify which benzo.
1B) Benzos as a class have similar effects. The only differences are the rapidity of onset, distribution in the body, length of action, half life, etc. They ALL have hypnotic and tranquilizer effects and they ALL can be used as date rape drugs. Why rohypnol? Not available in the US. All mystique? I don't use it since it's not available here but I'd wager it has a faster onset of action. Xanax/alprazolam is a drug used in the US which is difficult to taper because it has a rapid onset and is "reinforcing" (patients like the rush). This or others may be the next thing to catch on.
2) Alcohol is still the most commonly used date drug with amnestic properties. Think about that the next time you or a friend are offered a drink and you're worried if it's "clean."
3) Rohypnol on its own should be safe even in overdose in otherwise healthy people. They sleep, sometimes for a long time, then they wake up. The toxicologists management is, "allow metabolism." COMBINED WITH ALCOHOL OR OTHER DRUGS it can cause potentially serious respiratory depression. Any sedating drug in the context of alcohol can also lead to death if it causes vomiting and the vomit is inhaled.
4) If you think somone's gonna get raped and spend the rest of her life thinking about that, and risk getting STD's or pregnant or whatever other badness might result, and you walk away because you don't have the time that evening to help.... well....
Question for Mr. Channell--how do we know the person 1) drugged him 2) attempted to rape him? Most men who want to have sex with men know just how to get it and it doesn't take any effort.
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited March 01, 2002).]
1) Rohypnol is a benzodiazepine. People who get drugged or look drugged or are otherwise acting funny routinely get a "U tox" or urine tox as well as a serum tox screen at the ER. Benzos are included. The test doesn't specify which benzo.
1B) Benzos as a class have similar effects. The only differences are the rapidity of onset, distribution in the body, length of action, half life, etc. They ALL have hypnotic and tranquilizer effects and they ALL can be used as date rape drugs. Why rohypnol? Not available in the US. All mystique? I don't use it since it's not available here but I'd wager it has a faster onset of action. Xanax/alprazolam is a drug used in the US which is difficult to taper because it has a rapid onset and is "reinforcing" (patients like the rush). This or others may be the next thing to catch on.
2) Alcohol is still the most commonly used date drug with amnestic properties. Think about that the next time you or a friend are offered a drink and you're worried if it's "clean."
3) Rohypnol on its own should be safe even in overdose in otherwise healthy people. They sleep, sometimes for a long time, then they wake up. The toxicologists management is, "allow metabolism." COMBINED WITH ALCOHOL OR OTHER DRUGS it can cause potentially serious respiratory depression. Any sedating drug in the context of alcohol can also lead to death if it causes vomiting and the vomit is inhaled.
4) If you think somone's gonna get raped and spend the rest of her life thinking about that, and risk getting STD's or pregnant or whatever other badness might result, and you walk away because you don't have the time that evening to help.... well....
Question for Mr. Channell--how do we know the person 1) drugged him 2) attempted to rape him? Most men who want to have sex with men know just how to get it and it doesn't take any effort.
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited March 01, 2002).]
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f.Channell
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Dape Rape Drugs
Ian,
My friend only had 2 beers and had that dramatic change in awareness. The rest is open to interpretation. The events of why my friend felt he was drugged I leave up to him. This is what what he told me, and I don't think it was too easy to do. He worked security at a college as well as a private protection business, so he's kind of aware of these things. I had never heard of roofies up to that point. This was a few years ago. Luckily he never found out the guys intent.
f.
My friend only had 2 beers and had that dramatic change in awareness. The rest is open to interpretation. The events of why my friend felt he was drugged I leave up to him. This is what what he told me, and I don't think it was too easy to do. He worked security at a college as well as a private protection business, so he's kind of aware of these things. I had never heard of roofies up to that point. This was a few years ago. Luckily he never found out the guys intent.
f.
