Chink in the Armor

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Dana Sheets
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am

Post by Dana Sheets »

Could top universities expect to bolster respect in academia by proclaiming that they were going to do away with three quarters of the core curriculum in favor of students exploring and studying what they want, how they want, when they want..?
Not framed that way. Quantity of content overwhelms quality of process and critical thinking development in today's western education models. School districts that have stream-lined (reduced) their content and improved their instruction of critical thinking strategies have seen greater success in student academic achievement. One such district is CCSD 15 in Palatine, IL. Information about their process improvement model is available here:
http://www.ccsd15.net/Baldrige/Index.html

And their US Dept. of Commerce Baldridge award application can be downloaded here:
http://www.ccsd15.net/Baldrige/HTML/Bal ... ation.html

I think that many martial arts systems would also benefit from such a detailed process improvement study. Too much was left to anecdotal experience in the past that can be quantified today...and at the same time I still don't think you need to teach a student every class 3 joint lock on the planet if you teach them a class 3 lever. Less can be more if chosen wisely. Do you want your students to memorize techniques or principles? With only a few principles you can apply thousands of techniques. The principles are there in Uechi. But how they are transmitted was learned and developed by Okinawan minds not western/North American minds. Now that western minds have been chewing on them for a couple of generations some of the approaches to teaching the principles is changing. As long as the same principles are transmitted, all is well. When the principles are unknown...chaos ensues.
Would an army preparing troops for hand to hand combat elect to leave the last three quarters of training time for the students to explore on their own?
No. And the point of my argument is that in the Okinawan karate tradition they were not looking for efficiency in the sense of transmitting a quantity of material as quickly as possible. Yes - a father would want to teach his son all he knows, but not in a week or even a year. Mr. Tomoyose is quoted as saying that he has started teaching his grandson karate. He taught him sanchin stepping for one year. After one year, he taught him how to turn around.

I have no question at all that many of today's combat experts could teach combative arts more quickly than the traditional Okinawan methods. My understanding is that the Okinawans are not interested in making Uechi-Ryu a modern system of combat defense. They are interested in preserving the "old ways" of their culture and heritage. This makes sense as so much of their history was burned by WWII and so many traditions lost through devastating casualties coupled with Japanese, then US occupation of their small lands.

So today's western Uechi practitioners have a choice and a challenge. Should they too seek to preserve the old ways, should they seek - as Kanei Uechi did - to preserve the old ways while joining into the sports movement, or should they seek to develop from Uechi-Ryu a structured system that deals with contemporary self defense/combat situations beyond ancient habitual acts of empty-handed physical violence?

Some are in denial and will simply not choose. Some are already exploring outside sources of information and seeing how they mesh (or don't mesh) with what they know of Uechi-Ryu.

According to anecdotal history - Kanbun Uechi did not teach sport. He taught self improvement and self-defense. Kanei Uechi moved closer to a combination of self-improvement and sport. Today's practitioners must also choose where they will focus their training, their learning, and their teaching.

Some will choose self-improvement -
Some will choose sport -
Some will choose combat -
Some will choose some or all of the above-

For those who choose combat alone I offer only the following caution again:
"Karate without virtue is only violence."
Did you show compassion today?
Guest

Post by Guest »

For those who choose combat alone I offer only the following caution again:
"Karate without virtue is only violence."
Funny I don't think I'm violent. I just don't need a high muckie muck trying to be my religious leader. I can train in the arts and still embrace my own brand of spirituality. I don't believe I'm going to become an evil time bomb because I do not have a guro swami dude showing me the spiritual path. What a load of beans. It's this cult stuff that keeps folks buying into bambo sword jumps etc. Many teacher today don't have the answers or applications so they hide behind some spiritual mumbo jumbo, it's a lie and it's dishonest.

Martial arts are martial, lets get over it already! Better people? Have we got a rein on our ego's? How are we building better people? Learning how to mess up folks if we need to makes us better? huh?

Makiwara or no makiwara spiritual leader or none, still don't think I'm in a dance studio or embrasing the dark side. Just training to survive is all.

Now if that dude in the black gi would just stop telling me how to mess folks up I'll be fine :wink:

Sorry for the rant. Just sick of the silly mumbo jumbo, my virtue is just fine thank you. :roll:

No offense intended , if folks want to preserve a foreign culture or jump over bambo swords, then they should!

Me, I'm just studying some kata's that came from China.

Too each their own.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rick Wilson

Post by Rick Wilson »

"For those who choose combat alone I offer only the following caution again:

"Karate without virtue is only violence."

I guess this is one of those statements that has to be read word by word to get the true meaning and perhaps read betweent he lines a little.

"Combat alone."

What does this mean?

Those who studied the "martial path" alone are the very people who came to the conclusion that MAs should make us better people so how did that happen because that could be read as "comabt alone."

On the other hand if what is meant by "combat alone" is that your only interest is learning how to hurt people really bad so that you can go out to the bar and do just that then yes this would be a study of mere violence.

But make no mistake that MAs study violence because the root of violence is the root of human nature so to study violence is to study human nature. To study human nature is to hope we might learn something about it.

And don't let Laird's rant fool you, because he teaches with ethics and has no interest in teaching anyone who just wants to hurt people.

But that does nto mean he does not study "combat alone." If we take a different read on it.

So for me I study combat alone or what I prefer to call the martial way. I do not tried to lead my students a some guru of life but I have extremely high ethical standards and I expect what I teach tobe used properly but to me THAT is the study of combat or violence or the martial path.

While I would expect to respect the people I train with as "people" I train the martial path with them.

To me the martial (combat) path is a virtuous one.

Realy rambling here and only have a short time left on my breaks so i have no idea if this makes sense.

Bottom line is I can both agree with the statement reading it one way and disagree with it when I rread it another.

Final note is that it is a great quote to generate discussion.
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Highland Mist

Post by Guest »

Uglyelk wrote:
I think your guilty of blowing smoke up our kilts
Aye, Laird. Me mithers of the body of Clan Colquhoun, Luss, Loch Lomandside. I wear the weathered tartan.

My clan badge reads, "Suis je puis." True men turn the caber.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Dana Sheets wrote: or should they seek to develop from Uechi-Ryu a structured system that deals with contemporary self defense/combat situations beyond ancient habitual acts of empty-handed physical violence?
How about they seek to leave people alone and let them do as they wish? how about not telling someone how to breathe? How about not saying rotten things behind peoples backs? How about not challenging someone to fight "someone else"?
Guest

McItalian

Post by Guest »

Another Italian highlander! And we thought the McCanna was the only one!Your in good company John.


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Guest

Post by Guest »

And don't let Laird's rant fool you, because he teaches with ethics and has no interest in teaching anyone who just wants to hurt people.
The rules pretty simple. If anyone from the dojo focus time and effort starting schit then I give them a go. I send them packing they take their lumps with them , I keep their tuition and it's the last they train with us. I'm clear about that standard up front. I'm not training bullies and barfighters.

I'm not teaching lotus growing either.

My students don't sing kum bi ya and they don't start schit. It is my hope they can finish schit when it starts. time will tell each student is different.
Guest

Post by Guest »

McItalian! You kill me Laird!

I'm with you though, just because I want my karate to work for me, doesn't make me a fuqn' animal (not that I feel Dana was implying that). I like to cook, fish, and ride my motorcycle too. Oh, and I am working on a college degree and work in a very professional outfit.

As far as the McGinny goes, I can't say that I blame him. Did you see how much he pays for tuition? He posted that a while back, I almost schit my drawers when I saw that! it's like 150 bux! If I dumped that much cash down a month, for as many years as he has, I would be living in denial also! The McGinny must have been training there since the early 80's! Do the math, 25 years, thats 300 months, multiply that by $150 and you get $45,000.00 !!!!!! HOLY CRAP! That is ALOT OF DOUGH!
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Post by Guest »

That is indeed a roll of bills.

I always feel guilty for collecting 60 a month because Jim always charged us twenty bucks.

If your didn't have it he wanted you to come to class anyway. What a deal. Six/seven classes a week with Sensei Maloney, thats like 40 cents an hour. :roll:
Guest

Post by Guest »

Thing is, Jim Maloney is imparting genuine knowledge and not kung fu movie techniques from the 70's. 60 is a fair tuition, especially with a sensei of that caliber. I've met Jim Maloney several times and he is definatley not a Sensei who would cramp your style, my impression of him is that he encourages out-of-the-box thinking, and that is what anyone in todays world should be looking for in a Sensei. God bless Jim Maloney and GOD BLESS THE McCANNA!!! :D

I think Bill, our host, is a good Sensei also. He has great form, and power, and he has a good sense of tradition and functionality. If I where to start karate training again, I could see myself gravitating towards a Sensei like Bill.

Jon Cieri is another great karate man and teacher. I'm fortunate that he is nearby and willing to train with me. I will be taking advantage of Jon's generosity starting next month.
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f.Channell
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Valhalla

Post by f.Channell »

Hate to brag Tony, (no I don't) :D
But I've trained with Van and Jon in the last couple of days and will add Jim and Bill to my list by Sunday morning.
What an excellent adventure week this year!!

I don't mind adding Italians to my clan as long as they weep when they hear the pipes.
F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
Guest

Post by Guest »

f.Channell wrote:Hate to brag Tony, (no I don't) :D
But I've trained with Van and Jon in the last couple of days and will add Jim and Bill to my list by Sunday morning.
What an excellent adventure week this year!!

I don't mind adding Italians to my clan as long as they weep when they hear the pipes.
F.
I do envy you Fred... *sigh*
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

So today's western Uechi practitioners have a choice and a challenge. Should they too seek to preserve the old ways, should they seek - as Kanei Uechi did - to preserve the old ways while joining into the sports movement, or should they seek to develop from Uechi-Ryu a structured system that deals with contemporary self defense/combat situations beyond ancient habitual acts of empty-handed physical violence?
this is good stuff , what i question Dana is where are the habitual acts of violence presented in the modern curriculum ?

do you think they were traditionally there ? , I see a distinct lack of any locks , chokes , throws etc etc , not in the kata , but deffinately in how it`s taught , I cant remeber much discussion about them online at least . The impression i get is punch/kick karate .

Or has squinting and looking for the applications always been the way ?

And do the contemporary acts of violence really differ from the older ones ? , or are we talking weapons ? .

I beleive the way we are attacked unarmed is very similar if not exactly the same , all being based on our inate physical structure .

I guess i`m a doubter of what traditional really is , people add katas , add drills , change the very nature of the practice and then say it`s all in keeping authentic and traditional .

by your own admission it`s move towards sports , by a senoirs admission the extra kata where just to sell more karate performances , pure marketing .

I beleive the tradtion we can be sure of is the habitual acts of violence and a need to address them , My personal spirituality I would not push on anyone , I beleive the confrontation of oneself through martial testing is the tool to improve oneself . The art is a tool , the test the process , the result is being .

If the art is merely misunderstood and an eastern method , then why would have needs to learn Hanshi McCarthys tools of teaching ? , and reintroduce conspets such as HAPV and tegumi , class 3 levers etc If it`s already there ? .

Not a lack in the art perhaps , but clearly one of understanding .
Rick Wilson

Post by Rick Wilson »

My goodness Dana’s quote has me thinking.

Thanks Dana for throwing that one out again.

The following question is not specifically for Dana (although she is most welcome to comment) it was just generated by the quote.

What makes a karate teacher a teacher of virtue?

Take a person who trains three times a week for an hour a night doing the standard Uechi curriculum.

(Please note this has NOTHING to do with the curriculum [for this comment] I am merely using it because most people will be familiar with it and can relate to the post.)

So this person works hard on his Kata, Bunkai, Kumite and Hojo undo etc and tests successfully.

Let us say he sticks with it and reaches even a fifth degree and opens his own school.

What makes him virtuous?

Really, without knowing how he treats people outside of the dojo or how he behaves outside of the dojo can anyone really say the fact that three hours of 168 hours in a week (0.0178%) shows us anything?

How does he treat his friends?

What if this same person had relied heavily on another practitioner for help with all kinds of activities in the school early on when starting but once successful didn’t even bother to send the other person an invitation to events? (Not me in the example.)

Would this same fifth degree who has trained in Uechi Ryu for years be a virtuous person?

I guess the answer may well lie in the question: Did this person train virtuously?

Although he most certainly did not train in combat alone.

So is it the training in combat, or any training, without virtue that matters?

But further to muddy the waters, many people who I consider virtuous trained in the same school.

So what now?

And just to send things off in a twist I repeat the question of “what makes a karate teacher a teacher of virtue or of life?”

I read an excellent book by Adam Hsu called the “Sword Polisher’s Recod” which is a collection of articles. In one he says he is just a kung fu teacher. People should not expect him to be more and he should not try to be more. Perhaps when we start to think of ourselves as more than Karate teachers then we have to question our “opinion” of ourselves. Perhaps at that point we should get some true humility (many claim to be humble but do not really know what that means) and just teach combat virtuously and through that teaching of combat hope to make some better people while we are at it.

In other words: Do not build pedestal for yourself and climb on it, do not let your student build you a pedestal and place you on it (and be careful because those students are sneaky, you could be up there without even knowing it – more careful yet because there may come a moment when you realize where you are and that you like the view.) Once you do this you have lost your virtue.

So I say – “Be virtuous in your training and those who are not will avoid you.”

Or as a previous signature line of mine quoting Deepak Chopra: “Walk with those who seek the truth and run from those who claim to have found it.”

Wow Dana did you think those few words could prompt such weird twisting thoughts?

Thanks again, Dana.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Virtuous huh? I guess being disrespectful to students by mispronouncing their names (on purpose), making inflamitory comments behind peoples backs, getting in the way of peoples individual growth and development is the virtues that uechi ryu has to offer? Is that the kind of behavior that is cultivated by years of sanchin practice? Well you all can keep it then. Some people believe they are virtuous in their own minds because they believe they are gods gift to karate and can bully others. A very simple ass-whooping can solve that problem. Thats not violence that is a productive action that everyone can benefit from, and because it is a selfless action as others will benefit from it, it must be an ass-whooping of virtue.
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