Jury Nullification
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 9:11 pm
Panther:
Sorry this has taken so long, but I just can't seem to get that reply thing working correctly. I hit the icon, but it only gives me the last paragraph; I try to do it in word, but it won't let me paste it back in the response section. Oh well. You'll have to refer back to your post to see where I'm referring to
Regarding teachers' standards...you ask would I want the chemical plants, pharmaceutical companies, or auto makers to set their own standards. The answer is of course not. I would, however, wish to see the chemists, pharmacists, and the men on the assembly line make their own standards. They know what it takes to do their job the correct way, so why not let them be part of the process? It's the same with teachers.
As for school committee members not qualified...you bet! I don't consider a locally elected official qualified to do the job just because they won a popularity contest between the 15 or 16% of the people who even bothered to vote. How about a qualification standard for those to sit on the board? How about tests each year for them too? I bet you they'd have trouble with that.
College professors are obviously more educated and would easily bring about changes in policy and curriculum, but shouldn't they be familiar with the setting and the people they are setting policy for? I wouldn't want a doctor operating on me who hasn't seen an operating room in 25 years, would you?
So, who would be better qualified? Child accountants? I won't go in that direction. Parents? Sure, if they have kids in the system and have demonstrated a knowledge of public education and its workings. Teachers and administrators? You bet. I don't care for this "conflict of interest" charge. School committees make budgetary suggestions to town meetings or appropriation committees, it's not out of the realm to see that the teachers would know first hand what is needed to the job correctly. And as for direction of curriculum, I say again, who knows better than those of us in the classroom what is best for the students. As for the contractual concerns, that could be handled outside the auspices of the school committee.
More money comment gets tiring??? Maybe because it's true. Education is an evolving entity. It progresses which means money is needed to keep up with the changes. why is that so difficult to understand. If you don't want the schools to keep up with industry or prepare for college properly, then don't hold us accountable.
Your results of the 3 "Rs" of yesteryear vs. today is a bit dramatical if you are speaking about public schools. Results haven't changed that much from the past (congnizant of the era's differences). And where did you go to school where you had class sizes in the 35-45 range???? Plus, again times have changed. Society has changed and the discipline that was once prevalent in the schoolss (and at home) is different. School dress codes are a thing of the past as well, and that plays a big role in how these kids act.
THe point is that qualified people are opting for jobs in private industry. Nothing surprising about this at all. So, the "quality" is not entering the field as it has done in the past. As for accountability, where is anyone else held accountable to the same extent as we are? And to whom are they accountable?
Alternative school funding comes right out of the exising school budget. Money that could be spent on books, more teachers, etc. goes to sending Joe "Screw-up" to a school where he can "develop" more appropriately. Furthermore, more money goes to non-funded state mandates regarding SPED than anything else and unfortunately, most alternative schools fall under the town's SPED program. As for private schools, if they don't take in the same clientele, then we shouldn't be compared with them for test scores or anything else.
Why shouldn't schools get the latest update? That's what they'll be working on when they get out. Aren't we supposed to be preparing these kids for the world after high school? I can't explain why your school system did not accpet your gracious gift. I certainly would have! But, remember, at least in my school system, you ask for whatever you can because you never know when you'll get the chance again.
As for the teachers not able to teach the students how to use the computers...when? When do I have the time to teach my students how to cuse the syste? I have a curriculum that I'm responsible too.
Regarding teacher testing. You state a number hae not been keeping current. Oh, that was right from the Governor's office.
Talk about rhetoric. EVERY teacher I know (and there are over 100 in my building alone) takes extra courses either out of love for learning, to help them with their job, or for monetary considerations a as per their contract. This is just a political tool to make elected officials seem like they are doing someting for an uninformed public. Have you ever seen a teacher's credentials from your town? Once you have, then you can talk about the above statement with more clarity. BTW, there is no such think as tenure anymore in MASS.
Saying the public is my boss in just silly. I don't answer to them anymore than the president of the US answers to me. My boss is my building princial. Let him criticize me or pat me on the back when I deserve it. The general public will never have a good thing to say about public education while they are forced to pay for it out of thier own pockets.
And lastly, propaganda...??? Really? How many bomb threats di you experience last year? We had two in my school (two too many). How many gun threats did you have last year? We had one (one too many). We work with different clientele than everybody else does, so it's tough to equate for many people out there. It has nothing to do with emotionalized propaganda at all. Again, it's a real part of the job, and not one which people enjoy. The same can be said for the amount of fights I have to break up Too many to count, plus the potential legal ramifications that go along with it. I doubt you are in the same boat; nor others in private industry.
mike
Sorry this has taken so long, but I just can't seem to get that reply thing working correctly. I hit the icon, but it only gives me the last paragraph; I try to do it in word, but it won't let me paste it back in the response section. Oh well. You'll have to refer back to your post to see where I'm referring to

Regarding teachers' standards...you ask would I want the chemical plants, pharmaceutical companies, or auto makers to set their own standards. The answer is of course not. I would, however, wish to see the chemists, pharmacists, and the men on the assembly line make their own standards. They know what it takes to do their job the correct way, so why not let them be part of the process? It's the same with teachers.
As for school committee members not qualified...you bet! I don't consider a locally elected official qualified to do the job just because they won a popularity contest between the 15 or 16% of the people who even bothered to vote. How about a qualification standard for those to sit on the board? How about tests each year for them too? I bet you they'd have trouble with that.
College professors are obviously more educated and would easily bring about changes in policy and curriculum, but shouldn't they be familiar with the setting and the people they are setting policy for? I wouldn't want a doctor operating on me who hasn't seen an operating room in 25 years, would you?
So, who would be better qualified? Child accountants? I won't go in that direction. Parents? Sure, if they have kids in the system and have demonstrated a knowledge of public education and its workings. Teachers and administrators? You bet. I don't care for this "conflict of interest" charge. School committees make budgetary suggestions to town meetings or appropriation committees, it's not out of the realm to see that the teachers would know first hand what is needed to the job correctly. And as for direction of curriculum, I say again, who knows better than those of us in the classroom what is best for the students. As for the contractual concerns, that could be handled outside the auspices of the school committee.
More money comment gets tiring??? Maybe because it's true. Education is an evolving entity. It progresses which means money is needed to keep up with the changes. why is that so difficult to understand. If you don't want the schools to keep up with industry or prepare for college properly, then don't hold us accountable.
Your results of the 3 "Rs" of yesteryear vs. today is a bit dramatical if you are speaking about public schools. Results haven't changed that much from the past (congnizant of the era's differences). And where did you go to school where you had class sizes in the 35-45 range???? Plus, again times have changed. Society has changed and the discipline that was once prevalent in the schoolss (and at home) is different. School dress codes are a thing of the past as well, and that plays a big role in how these kids act.
THe point is that qualified people are opting for jobs in private industry. Nothing surprising about this at all. So, the "quality" is not entering the field as it has done in the past. As for accountability, where is anyone else held accountable to the same extent as we are? And to whom are they accountable?
Alternative school funding comes right out of the exising school budget. Money that could be spent on books, more teachers, etc. goes to sending Joe "Screw-up" to a school where he can "develop" more appropriately. Furthermore, more money goes to non-funded state mandates regarding SPED than anything else and unfortunately, most alternative schools fall under the town's SPED program. As for private schools, if they don't take in the same clientele, then we shouldn't be compared with them for test scores or anything else.
Why shouldn't schools get the latest update? That's what they'll be working on when they get out. Aren't we supposed to be preparing these kids for the world after high school? I can't explain why your school system did not accpet your gracious gift. I certainly would have! But, remember, at least in my school system, you ask for whatever you can because you never know when you'll get the chance again.
As for the teachers not able to teach the students how to use the computers...when? When do I have the time to teach my students how to cuse the syste? I have a curriculum that I'm responsible too.
Regarding teacher testing. You state a number hae not been keeping current. Oh, that was right from the Governor's office.
Talk about rhetoric. EVERY teacher I know (and there are over 100 in my building alone) takes extra courses either out of love for learning, to help them with their job, or for monetary considerations a as per their contract. This is just a political tool to make elected officials seem like they are doing someting for an uninformed public. Have you ever seen a teacher's credentials from your town? Once you have, then you can talk about the above statement with more clarity. BTW, there is no such think as tenure anymore in MASS.
Saying the public is my boss in just silly. I don't answer to them anymore than the president of the US answers to me. My boss is my building princial. Let him criticize me or pat me on the back when I deserve it. The general public will never have a good thing to say about public education while they are forced to pay for it out of thier own pockets.
And lastly, propaganda...??? Really? How many bomb threats di you experience last year? We had two in my school (two too many). How many gun threats did you have last year? We had one (one too many). We work with different clientele than everybody else does, so it's tough to equate for many people out there. It has nothing to do with emotionalized propaganda at all. Again, it's a real part of the job, and not one which people enjoy. The same can be said for the amount of fights I have to break up Too many to count, plus the potential legal ramifications that go along with it. I doubt you are in the same boat; nor others in private industry.
mike