Farenheit 9/11

[cxt]

Here are a couple almost as good.

Moore in a TV interview stated catagorically that HE-HIMSELF and other "weathly." (undefined term)

Should pay 70 PERCENT OF THIER INCOME IN TAXS.

Anyone want to guess if he is turning over 70% of the take from his movie??

Moore has stated that (both in his film and publically) that people should NOT do business with Walmart.

Yet they are one of (if not THE) largest seller of videos of his films.

Huh??? Maybe he meant that you should NOT do business with Walmart--UNLESS they are making you a whole pile of cash?? THEN is OK???

[Gene DeMambro]

WE (working people) all pay for those lawsuits that trial lawyers are making so much money on.

And WE (working people) all pay for those negligent doctors, nurses, druggists, et al that have to pay so much money.

Gene

[Bill Glasheen]

WE (working people) all pay for those negligent doctors, nurses, druggists, et al that have to pay so much money.

See my discussions elsewhere on how to improve quality. Sueing isn't part of the quality solution.

Check out the quality literature yourself, Gene.

one would get the impression that you all think only Republicans are allowed to have money.

I don't recall mentioning Democrat or Republican. I was talking about the hypocracy of a Populist who talks about "two Americas" and makes money by sueing doctors and not paying his Medicare taxes.

FYI - I'm an independent with libertarian tendencies. I want government out of my back AND my front pocket.

- Bill

[Panther]

Apologies to Panther for the long clips. It was just too good to pass up.

None needed...

Just to make things clear to all involved:

I don't mind quoting articles, webpages, or other sources. Quote as much as is needed to get the point across. Give some examples and link to the entire article as Rich did. If it is necessary for some reason to quote things in their entirety, by all means DO! I did not and have not tried to censor the items from Moore's page at all. However, I was more than a little taken aback when confronted with seven very lengthy posts including duplicates.

I knew I would take heat for the long cut and paste but there was a point to it.

I can see that there was a point to it. However, I merely suggested that 1) the point could be made in a shorter space with links to the original and 2) that the lengthy duplicate posts should have been immediately taken care of by you. I, in NO way, censored any of that, I simply did the housekeeping (which people generally do on their own) for you by deleting the superfluous duplicate posts. You were absolutely NOT given any "heat for the long cut and paste". You were given a suggestion and a request to do the housekeeping, but that's OK... I did the housekeeping for you. Now... Having put all that on the table... Let me state, for all to know, that I think it is completely unfair of you to make the statement that you had to take any heat for it. Just ask... there are plenty of people that know I can and will give heat if I feel it's needed. However, I've really tried very hard for a loooooong time to take a "hands off" approach to this forum. And guess what... It's been working pretty good. People have their opinions on both sides and since people know that I'm not afraid to tell people to take a lifetime vacation from this forum if they misbehave, people have have been pretty good about discussing issues and viewpoints. (Let's try to keep it that way... 'K?) For that, I commend everyone. But don't think that just because I don't post I don't read...

OK... Take care and be good to each other...

[Gene DeMambro]

makes money by sueing doctors and not paying his Medicare taxes.

Got a problem with someone making money on the up and up?

Gene

[Bill Glasheen]

Joke, right?

Do I detect a sense of humor, Gene?

- Bill

[Pollyanna]

Wow. Long posts.

In response to documentation to Bush being a moron - it is well documented. There have been VOLUMES written on "Bushisms." Perhaps the best line I ever heard from our sitting president was: "Most of our imports are from other countries."

I reiterate, basically what Moore did was give the man enough rope.... With an ironic narrative that takes us from the Florida debacle to the aftermath of the war, Fahrenheit uses the facts and the president's goofiest statements and on-camera performances to score its points.

Documentaries aren't news articles or high budget family fare; they're subjective points of view, which is why Moore has almost endless fodder. If he stimulates thought and gets more people out to vote, I say God bless the man!

[Panther]

In response to documentation to Bush being a moron - it is well documented.

There are plenty of things to say about G.W. Bush, but I don't think that "being a moron" is "well documented". Sure, he's fumbled some words, but be very careful in equating that with stupidity. Some of his word pronounciations are quite common in the South and in some rural areas... and thinking that just because someone speaks slowly, with a drawl and a Southern accent means that they think slow and/or are stupid or a moron is a huge mistake... as well as insulting.

There have been VOLUMES written on "Bushisms." Perhaps the best line I ever heard from our sitting president was: "Most of our imports are from other countries."

There have been many mis-statements by politicians. Actually, quite a lot of them can be attributed to Dan Quayle. But that doesn't mean that the Johns don't have equally embarassing statements. I won't dredge those up right now... It's unimportant.

I reiterate, basically what Moore did was give the man enough rope.... With an ironic narrative that takes us from the Florida debacle to the aftermath of the war, Fahrenheit uses the facts and the president's goofiest statements and on-camera performances to score its points.

You call it a debacle... I disagree. Moore shows Bush at his worst and has come right out and said that this is not a documentary, it is his personal propaganda to cause a regime' change.

Documentaries aren't news articles or high budget family fare; they're subjective points of view, which is why Moore has almost endless fodder. If he stimulates thought and gets more people out to vote, I say God bless the man!

Nope... Documentaries are supposed to be factual, unbiased, and tell the whole story. Moore doesn't do that... Never has, never will. Also, it has been proven that Moore has "creatively edited" significant amounts of footage in his films to get a statement or the appearance of a position which has been shown to be a distortion, out-right lie, or even a complete opposite position from the one taken by the person. That's not a documentary, but is propaganda pure and simple. For what it truly is, Moore's films are very good. But just be sure to realize what they are. It isn't cheap to pay for all that video manipulation.

You know... The left's ongoing tactics just aren't even funny any more. Democrats seem to get allowed to slide on so many issues, mis-statements, and actions while Republicans are all painted as either stupid or evil... or both. Sometimes, the left will actually paint a conservative as both at the same time! It's amazing how someone can be painted as a complete blithering idiot one second and then painted as a greedy, maniacal, evil genius the next second. If the sheep didn't blindly follow that crap, then it'd be funny.

[cxt]

Polly


Sorry, but Moores spin, omissions, misleading information, out of sequence (sp) events, "creative" editing, etc.

Are far, far, more than simple "giveing Bush enough rope."

That may the thing that angers me the most.

Partisenship has gotten so bad that you (and others like you) no longer care if the information you get is accurate--just as long as it agrees with your point of view.

I am equally unhappy with the Right--but lets at least be intellectually honest enough to call dreck--dreck.

[Dana Sheets]

Documentaries are supposed to be factual, unbiased, and tell the whole story.

Nope - journalism is supposed to be all that. Documentaries make a special claim to reality - but they're not the news. Most people who make documentaries don't try to be impartial. They try to make a point.

Even the great documentaries - are biased -

Primary - Robert Drew (on Kennedy's Campaign)

Don't Look Back - DA Pennebaker

Harlan County, USA, Barbara Kopple, Director.*

Berlin: Symphony of a Great City, Walter Ruckman, Director

Ring of Fire, Lorne and Lawrence Bair, Directors*

Triumph of the Will, Leni Riefenstahl, Director

Common Threads, Robert Epstein & Jeffrey Friedman Directors*

Dear America: Letters from Vietnam (No Director Credit)*

The Clowns, Federico Fellini, Director*

Night Mail, John Grierson, Director

Nanook of the North, Robert Flaherty, Director

The Plow that Broke the Plains, Pare Lorentz, Director

Salesman, Albert and David Mailes, Directors

The Thin Blue Line, Errol Morris, Director*

Sherman's March, Ross Mc Elwee Director

Hearts of Darkness, Eleanor Coppola, Fax Bahr Directors*

The Civil War, Ken Burns, Director

Pumping Iron, George Butler and Robert Fiore Directors*.

Visions of Light (No Director Credit)

American Dream, Barbara Kopple, Director

A Brief History of Time, Errol Morris, Director *

The War Room, No Director Credit

Impartiality is a continuum - Moore is at one end along with Leni Riefenstahl, while Ken Burns is at another.

It's that special claim to reality that gets documentary filmmakers in trouble - people think we're going to show THE TRUTH. Sadly the TRUTH doesn't always make good movies. We tell stories - some are closer to fact than fiction, but they're all stories.

[benzocaine]

Sure, he's fumbled some words, but be very careful in equating that with stupidity. Some of his word pronounciations are quite common in the South and in some rural areas... and thinking that just because someone speaks slowly, with a drawl and a Southern accent means that they think slow and/or are stupid or a moron is a huge mistake... as well as insulting. -Panther

[lurk mode = off]
Bush was edumicated in the North.


I don't see where the South was mentioned by Polly Panther. Hope you don't take this as a personal attack Panther but this isn't the first time you've accused someone of slamming the South when they weren't. In fact you accused me of it a couple times Are you from the South Panther? I can assure you people slam the South less than you think. I am privy to this information as I am a Damn Yankee.. something the locals call one of us that stays. Most of them are kidding the rest can kiss my you know what.

[lurkmode= on]

[Panther]

Ben,

I never said Polly referenced the South. I made my point based on the fact that the current POTUS has a prominent Southern accent from his years living in Texas... and from the fact that some people have equated speaking slowly with a Southern drawl as thinking slowly. I know of some of them firsthand who ended up losing their shirts doing business in the South based on that assumption. Not that I feel compelled to give you ANY effin information about where I was born or raised, and not that your attitude makes me feel like you even deserve to know... It is common knowledge to many folks and I've never hidden the fact that I was born and raised in the South... North Carolina to be exact. However, I've lived over half my life in Taxachusetts. Now... just so we can be on the up & up... You don't "assure" me of anything. I didn't accuse Polly of slamming the South.

Now... I do take your post personally... and it is most unappreciated.

So, since you know what the definition is... quit acting like one.

[benzocaine]

Deleted
by
the
Author.

[Panther]

Deleted
by
the
Author.

Ben,

If you want to say something, you can...

Contrary to popular myth, it is rare when I even request that someone censor or delete their posts...

[Pollyanna]

Seriously, do your really attribute Bushisms to a southern accent? He he ho ho ha ha!

"Do you have blacks, too?" -George W. Bush, to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001, as reported in an April 28, 2002, Estado Sao Pauloan column by Fernando Pedreira, a close friend of President Cardoso

"I'd rather have them sacrificing on behalf of our nation than, you know, endless hours of testimony on congressional hill." -George W. Bush, Fort Meade, Maryland, June 4, 2002

"We hold dear what our Declaration of Independence says, that all have got uninalienable rights, endowed by a Creator." -George W. Bush, to community and religious leaders in Moscow, May 24, 2002

"We're working with Chancellor Schröder on what's called 10-plus-10-over-10: $10 billion from the U.S.,$10 billion from other members of the G7 over a 10-year period, to help Russia securitize the dismantling - the dismantled nuclear warheads." -George W. Bush, Berlin, Germany, May 23, 2002

"After all, a week ago, there were - Yasser Arafat was boarded up in his building in Ramallah, a building full of, evidently, German peace protestors and all kinds of people. They're now out. He's now free to show leadership, to lead the world." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 2, 2002

"The public education system in America is one of the most important foundations of our democracy. After all, it is where children from all over America learn to be responsible citizens, and learn to have the skills necessary to take advantage of our fantastic opportunistic society." -George W. Bush, May 1, 2002

"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." -George W. Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 10, 2002

"And so, in my State of the - my State of the Union - or state - my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation - I asked Americans to give 4,000 years - 4,000 hours over the next - the rest of your life - of service to America. That's what I asked - 4,000 hours." -George W. Bush, Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002

"Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of (Dr. Seuss's) 'Hop on Pop.'" -George W. Bush, in a speech about childhood education, Washington, D.C., April 2, 2002

"We've tripled the amount of money - I believe it's from $50 million up to $195 million available." -George W. Bush, Lima, Peru, March 23, 2002

"We've got pockets of persistent poverty in our society, which I refuse to declare defeat - I mean, I refuse to allow them to continue on. And so one of the things that we're trying to do is to encourage a faith-based initiative to spread its wings all across America, to be able to capture this great compassionate spirit." -George W. Bush, O'Fallon, Mo., Mar. 18, 2002

"I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

"There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific." -George W. Bush, who apparently forgot about a little something called World War II, Tokyo, Feb. 18, 2002

"He [Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi] said I want to make it very clear to you exactly what I intend to do and he talked about non-performing loans, the devaluation issue and regulatory reform and he placed equal emphasis on all three." -George W. Bush, who had meant to say "the deflation issue" rather than "the devaluation issue," and accidentally sent the Japanese Yen tumbling, Tokyo, Feb. 18, 2002

"But all in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me." -George W. Bush, summing up his first year in office, Washington, D.C., Dec. 20, 2001

"I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah." -George W. Bush, at a White House Menorah lighting ceremony, Washington, D.C., Dec. 10, 2001

"I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

"We are fully committed to working with both sides to bring the level of terror down to an acceptable level for both." -George W. Bush, after a meeting with congressional leaders, Washington, D.C., Oct. 2, 2001

"The folks who conducted to act on our country on September 11th made a big mistake. They underestimated America. They underestimated our resolve, our determination, our love for freedom. They misunderestimated the fact that we love a neighbor in need. They misunderestimated the compassion of our country. I think they misunderestimated the will and determination of the Commander-in-Chief, too." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 26, 2001

"The suicide bombings have increased. There's too many of them." -George W. Bush, Albuquerque, N.M., Aug. 15, 2001

"One of the interesting initiatives we've taken in Washington, D.C., is we've got these vampire-busting devices. A vampire is a - a cell deal you can plug in the wall to charge your cell phone." -George W. Bush, Denver, Aug. 14, 2001

"There's a lot of people in the Middle East who are desirous to get into the Mitchell process. And - but first things first. The - these terrorist acts and, you know, the responses have got to end in order for us to get the framework - the groundwork - not framework, the groundwork to discuss a framework for peace, to lay the-all right." -George W. Bush, referring to former Sen. George Mitchell's report on Middle East peace, Crawford, Texas, Aug. 13, 2001

"My administration has been calling upon all the leaders in the - in the Middle East to do everything they can to stop the violence, to tell the different parties involved that peace will never happen." -George W. Bush, Crawford, Texas, Aug, 13, 2001

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it." -George W. Bush, July 27, 2001

"You saw the president yesterday. I thought he was very forward-leaning, as they say in diplomatic nuanced circles." -George W. Bush, referring to his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, July 23, 2001

"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right." -George W. Bush, in Rome, July 22, 2001

"It is white." -George W. Bush, asked by a child in Britain what the White House was like, July 19, 2001

"Well, it's an unimaginable honor to be the president during the Fourth of July of this country. It means what these words say, for starters. The great inalienable rights of our country. We're blessed with such values in America. And I - it's - I'm a proud man to be the nation based upon such wonderful values." -George W. Bush, visiting the Jefferson Memorial, Washington, D.C., July 2, 2001

"I want to thank you for coming to the White House to give me an opportunity to urge you to work with these five senators and three congressmen, to work hard to get this trade promotion authority moving. The power that be, well most of the power that be, sits right here."-George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 18, 2001

"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." -George W. Bush, at a news conference in Europe, June 14, 2001

"I haven't had a chance to talk, but I'm confident we'll get a bill that I can live with if we don't." -George W. Bush, referring to the McCain-Kennedy patients' bill of rights, June 13, 2001

"Can't living with the bill means it won't become law." -George W. Bush, referring to the McCain-Kennedy patients' bill of rights, June 13, 2001