Moooo - Here comes our beef and the protesters!!!

[Mary S]

Amazing the sentiment around Halifax from folks who don't want George Double-ya to come here....

From CNN:

Bush visiting Canada
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 Posted: 1619 GMT (0019 HKT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush sought Tuesday to patch up relations with Canada after years of bickering, flying to the capital for talks with Prime Minister Paul Martin on trade, security and a host of tough hemispheric and global issues.

Bush's landing marked the first official visit by a U.S. president in nearly 10 years -- a meeting that was akin to a political dance where the president was trying to avoid any missteps that could amplify anti-Americanism north of the U.S. border.

Relations between the Bush administration and Canada got off to a rocky start when Bush, a new president, chose Mexico instead of Canada as the first country he'd visit. Trade disputes and the war in Iraq further soured the friendship.

Martin, Canada's former finance minister and a wealthy shipping magnate, however, has repeatedly expressed a desire to rebuild U.S.-Canada relations, which cooled under his predecessor, Jean Chretien.

The dialogue became even more strained when Chretien decided against sending troops to Iraq -- a decision supported by more than 80 percent of Canadians.

"Under Chretien, relations were terrible," John Hulsman, research fellow in foreign policy at Heritage Foundation, said of the former prime minister whose aide called Bush a "moron" in November 2002. "It got so bad that in the Parliament one time they forgot to turn the mikes off and someone was calling Bush a bastard."

Bush will not make a customary speech at the House of Commons in Ottawa where the sometimes raucous Parliament has been known to heckle speakers.

Bush's unpopularity is expected to be protested by demonstrators upset about trade issues, Iraq and U.S. efforts to get Canada involved in the continental missile defense shield and Iraq.

The two-day visit was focused on creating goodwill, but thorny economic issues were also sure to arise at the meeting between the leaders whose nations have the world's largest trading partnership. The United States and Canada do more than $1 billion in business a day; 85 percent of Canada's exports go to the United States.

Bush and Martin also are expected to talk about security on the U.S.-Canada border, the war on terrorism and efforts to expand democracy to other corners of the world.

Canada stood with France and Germany in deciding not to send troops to Iraq, but pledged $300 million for reconstruction and is helping train Iraqi police officers in Jordan. Martin is expected to offer to send Canadian observers to help oversee January elections in Iraq.

On trade issues, the two nations are fighting over a tariff the United States has placed on imports of pine, spruce and other easy-to-saw softwood lumber logged in Canada. On average, the United States adds an extra 27 cents to every $1 worth of softwood lumber imported from four Canadian provinces.

U.S. officials accuse Canada of subsidizing the lumber business, saying it does not charge companies enough to log on public lands. Canada is challenging the tariff through international trade organizations. The World Trade Organization has sided with Canada in a series of preliminary rulings, but the dispute is far from over.

Also, Canadian ranchers are upset about the U.S. ban on live Canadian cattle that was imposed after a lone case of mad cow disease was discovered in Alberta in May 2003. The United States is Canada's biggest beef customer, and the American ban has cost the Canadian cattle industry billions of dollars.

Bush will be served Alberta beef at a dinner tonight that Martin is hosting at the Canadian Museum of Civilization.

Under a rule recently drafted by the Agriculture Department, Canada would be allowed to resume exports of certain kinds of beef. That rule will be reviewed for the next several months by the Office of Management and Budget.

The United States and Canada are working jointly on environmental issues as well as health and safety standards and regulations that won't slow down trade and economic exchange across North America, according to a senior administration official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

On Wednesday, Bush will travel to Halifax, Nova Scotia, to give a speech, thanking Halifax and other maritime provinces that received tens of thousands of Americans stranded after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

More than 200 jetliners heading for the United States were diverted to Canada after the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. About 7,000 people on 44 planes went to Halifax.

[Bill Glasheen]

Hey, Mary!

Don't worry... After GW is gone, we'll send Triumph the Insult Comic Dog up there to repair relations!

From the time I was suckling my mom's boobies, I wanted to insult....'Hey nipple! if your hole was any smaller, I'd need CPR'

We could do worse...

- Bill

[Mary S]

I personally don't think that a 48 hour trip is going to get the job done.

Canada/US relations needs a bigger bandaid than that.

I'm sure there are those out west who hope he chokes on his Alberta beef tonight at dinner and others down this way who think his thank you regarding 9/11 is too little, too late.

Either way, I'm sure the streets will be hopping here tomorrow morning as the riot police get in line and protesters get geared up.

Bill, send up your little puppy...I've seen Triumph in action and he can be quite amusing at times.

[Bill Glasheen]

Not to worry about the protesters; the activity will keep them off the... Wait a minute!

Triumph got a nasty reception last time he came up there with Conan to Toronto. Go figure.

Those French-speaking Quebecers have no sense of humor...


FOR ME TO POOP ON!

- Bill

[Guest]

Those French-speaking Quebecers have no sense of humor...


FOR ME TO POOP ON!
http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do? ... ID=1785062

Looks like they still aren’t smiling.

Canada/US relations needs a bigger band aid than that

You got that right Mary. The USA whining about Canada not joining them when they choose to go it alone in Iraq is silly.

Hypocritical if you think about it, we asked America for help in Rwanda. They sit on the Security Council that approved the mission. Ten years ago 800,000 Africans died and they didn’t lift a finger to help us try to save them from this genocide. They have no oil. I guess they are only interested in their agenda…but why would our neighbors expect our support after they failed to give us any?

I’ve watched and read as the yanks have shcit all over my country for not backing them in their war.



They continually shaft us in trade and now they want us to come on board on missile defense. Man my kids are better at diplomacy than these guys.


http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do? ... ID=1785029

Hmmmm is it going to be the sixties again?

Rouge nations thumb their nose at international law and organizations. They jail large portions of the population. They produce weapons of mass destruction to impose their will through military action. Sound familiar to any one?

Just food for thought...the rst of the world may not subscibe to the dogma.

[benzocaine]

Just food for thought...the rst of the world may not subscibe to the dogma.

Yep food for thought. Even if Iraq had never happened we'd still be the biggest kid on the block and all the others would be jealous. France, Germany, and Russia would still be profiting from the food for oil program, along with the UN head's son. They'd be using the UN to their advantage for corruption.. but we should have just waited for them to agree to help

[Guest]

Just food for thought...the rest of the world may not subscribe to the dogma.

Yep food for thought. Even if Iraq had never happened we'd still be the biggest kid on the block

The world is a scary place with only one superpower, might does not make right. Many see America today as a global bully, a rouge nation.

I still remember when America was viewed internationally as the defender of democracy, the good guy too many nations.

What has changed in foreign policy that many people now see America as the bad guys?

Why are people willing to turn themselves into human bombs on the off chance they might take out an American? Why do their people see them as heroes?

Time to do some soul searching and stop believing your own propaganda machine. People are not killing Americans all over the world over jealousy Ben.

Look at the spin doctoring on Iraq, first it was to destroy weapons of mass destruction, then it was régime change, then it was terrorists, then it was gun barrel democracy.

First off imposed democracy is not democracy. People choose democracy you can't force it on them, democracy by force is not democracy.

My country has been an American Ally since the beginning of our nation. Yet popular opinion in Canada no longer supports American initiatives abroad. Why is that? What has changed?

[benzocaine]

This is way to deep for me to get into now my friend.

I am disapointed in some ways by our forieghn policy, but yet proud because we don't just rattle our sabers. When we intend something people know we just might really do it

Iraq is a huge mess, but those GD Islamo#$%^%$ have had it in for the rest of the civilized world since day one. Even France and Russia are not exempt from their terror.

[IJ]

"Democracy by force" is one thing... what do you call free elections after force? What's not democratic about it?

What is certainly true is that there are times when a people are not yet ready for democracy. There's a prodemocracy movement in China, but I don't think things would go well if things were suddenly, completely freed up. Large segments of the population are dependent on the current government run make-work programs and a pure free market would leave a lot of people hanging in the wind. In Russia, sudden lack of control on the market after years of strict control, in a country with little experience in the matter, led to rampant corruption, and in Iraq, surveys have shown a lot of support for democratic principles conflicting even within the person with a lot of hardline beliefs about the inferiority of women and different religious sects. Talk has been talked, but the same people have indicated they don't really want to walk the walk. The best stable democracies develop on their own... and we in America don't always realize that those in other countries aren't just like us, with the same values and views on government.

[Bill Glasheen]

What has changed in foreign policy that many people now see America as the bad guys?

Whe got our ass kicked big time on September 11, 2001. And the deeper we looked, the more we could see how the "international community" was corrupt.

Right or wrong, good or bad, Bush and company decided to kick some ass and ask questions later. There was a list of folks on our schit list. Afghanistan made perfect sense because al qaeda was formed and being trained there. Iraq was a judgement call. And no, Laird, it wasn't for one reason. There was a whole list of reasons. WMD was the sales job to the UN. But it goes much, much deeper than that, and the history is very long. And our hands are not clean in that sordid history.

And as much as this country pretty much went it alone and f***ed up some folks without a lot of permission, it turned out not to be such a bad idea. We got al qaeda on the run, and they haven't been able to launch any more attacks in this country. We attracted every Tom, Dick, and Harry Islamofascist to Iraq where our Marines can kick the crap out of them. Better there than in New York, thank you. We uncovered lots of evidence showing all the corruption going on in the UN. We put Iran, Syria, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and even Bin Laden on notice. No more paper tiger. No more backing down. No more being at the mercy of corrupt world opinion.

Another very important piece to consider here, Laird, is our historic relationship with Israel. We fix that now - with Arafat passed away - or we damn ourselves forever to fighting suicide bombers.

Also you need to consider the insanity of the brainwashing going on in these Islamic madrasses, Laird. No amount of reason and good will is going to help you deal with folks that want to see Western Civilization as we know it (selfish or not) completely exterminated. When it comes to these folks, they only understand two things - the extermination of the brainwashing camps and the crushing of their insurgencies.

So...world opinion had to take a back seat for a while. And with the reelection of Bush, the world learned that it wasn't just Bush any more. Yes the country is divided on how to do it, but not on what to do and why. The world community can no longer simplify things to a bad president and good American people. It's a lot deeper than that. And Bush still has a lot of American political capital to spend.

Humility and open-mindedness are both good. But the bible tells us that there is a time for everything. And these now are some very contentious times.

Fortunately this is all going on with a country (the United States) that believes in representational governments. Being attacked and defeated by the U.S. historically is a good thing for countries. Ask Germany. Ask Japan. With all the harm done, there is a silver lining. And yes, I think a country ALWAYS is ready for a representational government.

Nobody said it's easy. It wasn't easy here. Just ask all the Sons of Confederate Veterans here in Richmond. There will be growing pains in Iraq just like there were the same here in this country where brother fought brother. The good news is I don't see Bush backing down from January elections. Good...

- Bill

[Valkenar]

I agree with Laird, here. I think it's sad that US-Canada relations are even in questions. I think a big part of our problem is that somewhere along the line we decided that our economic and military power gives us the wisdom and moral right to decide what is right for the rest of the world.

Even from a completly selfish standpoint, we're not going to be doing ourselves any favors by letting our arrogance get even further out of hand.

[Bill Glasheen]

Justin

I respectfully disagree. See my post above.

And Justin is just one example of how "we" don't speak with one voice. That's the beauty of it all.

- Bill

[Valkenar]

Justin

I respectfully disagree. See my post above.

Saw it just after posting myself.

We got al qaeda on the run, and they haven't been able to launch any more attacks in this country.

Pardon my ignorance, but what was the rate of Al Qaeda attacks prior to 9/11? What did they do in this country that makes you think even if we had done nothing at all we would have seen an attack since 9/11?

Also, I think it's a pretty sad state of affairs that instead of the world thinking of the US as "bad president, good people" they'll now be thinking of us as "bad president, bad people"

And see no reason to think that every terrorist in the world is flocking to Iraq. I'm sure that all of the smart ones are just sitting off to the side laughing at us. Iraq is doing nothing for us except creating animosity. That's just going to fuel terrorism, in the long run. If terrorists are flocking to Iraq it's to recruit any of the thousands of people who have had their lives fall apart around them because of what we're doing.

Being attacked and defeated by the U.S. historically is a good thing for countries.

I know what you're trying to say here, but I think this is really an awful attitude for us to take. "Trust us, this is for your own good"

[cxt]

UglyElk

Rwanda??

Why single us--the USA out?--NO-ONE ACTED IN RWANDA.

Not us--to our shame. But not the French, not the Russians, not the Chinese-NOBODY.

Certianly not our brothers to the North--you guys didn't do anything either.

In effect your saying that you "really" cared-but NOT ENOUGH TO GO IT ALONE.

Yeah, we care about human life and suffering!! What? We would have to go in OURSELVES--ALL ALONE--well maybe they are not as bad off as we thought.

That your train of thought here?

Tell me how much "oil" do the folks in Bosina and Kosavo have????

See, we stopped a genocide in both places--and no oil there--go figure.

Don't even get me started on how much money on food and aid programs the USA spends each year.

People are "willing to turn themselves into human bombs" for many reasons.

Why do people murder bomb the Jews--relgious intolerence ring any bells here?

Maybe because we oppose relgious facsist when the rest of the world seem sto want to appease them?

Hey maybe the film maker in Holland that was murdered by Islamic fanatics for saying bad things about Islam had it coming as well??

And those folks in Spain.

Or the school kids in Russia.

Not to mention all the folks killed by Islamic fundamentist in India and Pakistan.

"Imposed democracy" OK then the "democracy" we "forced" on Germany and Japan DID NOT produce stable, effective, peaceful nations??

Thats your agrument here??

Maybe what you need to do is totally crush and lay waste to a nation first--then rebuild it from scatch?

Sound to me like its time to do "some soul seaching" yourself.

[Bill Glasheen]

Justin

I'm not going to change your views of the world. I've accepted that a long time ago. And when I was your age and in danger of being drafted, I had many of the same views.

Not now. No more draft. And I have kids now; that changes your view of the world. And the attacks of 9/11 affected me in many direct and indirect ways. I have skin in the game now...

Pardon my ignorance, but what was the rate of Al Qaeda attacks prior to 9/11?

The question is somewhat irrelevant, Justin. Prior to 9/11 and while Bill Clinton was banging chubby interns in the oral...I mean oval office, Bin Laden was constructing his terrorist network. Now thousands of them are out there throughout the world - including in this country. We have many of the plans, Justin, and we know what they want to do and how they want to do it (for the most part). And I know enough from my network to know that there's a lot the world will never know in terms of what is planned, what was thwarted, etc.

But read the New York Times and watch CBS if it makes you feel better. Those journalists have Pulitzers to pursue, after all...

9/11 was a pretty thorough attack. They shut Wall Street down for over a week, and killed 3000 smart people from all over the global economy. They shut our mail system down with a handful of envelopes containing anthrax. They even hit our media in the eye with an envelope sent to Tom Brokaw himself. They crippled our transportation system, and a few airlines will probably never recover. They took out a chunk of command and control of the military with the plane that went into the Pentagon (and almost killed my sister in the process, BTW). And they almost got all of Congress (in session) with a 4th plane. What more do you want, Justin?

Before Bin Laden, there were attacks. There was the thwarted Y2K attack at the Canadian border in the northwest. (Remember that one??) They tried twice to take out the WTC, and failed (third time was the charm). With al qaeda training and Bin Laden's leadership, they brought it all under discipline. Now they can do much, much more, and with not much effort. And he intentionally metastesized them throughout the world. Take out the head, and you still have problems.

I'm glad you can sleep at night, Justin.

And see no reason to think that every terrorist in the world is flocking to Iraq. I'm sure that all of the smart ones are just sitting off to the side laughing at us. Iraq is doing nothing for us except creating animosity. That's just going to fuel terrorism, in the long run. If terrorists are flocking to Iraq it's to recruit any of the thousands of people who have had their lives fall apart around them because of what we're doing.

Yep, that's the line they tell us all. Sooo... How come there wasn't a lick of difference between Kerry and Bush on what to do with Iraq, and whether or not we should have gone in the first place? Howard Dean was one of the few candidates who thought we shouldn't have gone. You saw how far he got...

How do I know terrorists are flocking to Iraq? My friend from India tells me things have gotten much better there, because the Islamofascists who foment problems there have temporarily gone. She has a different perspective than yours, Justin. Her family has lost lives to these people. The reprieve has been most welcome to her, and has directly affected the lives of her family.

Your statement is just an opinion, Justin. Mark my word; you will be proven wrong. It will start with Iraqi elections in January. It won't stop there and it will take time but...this is a start.

Afghanistan is well along the way, as is virtually all of Northern Iraq.

Don't believe everything you hear in the media.

I think it's a pretty sad state of affairs that instead of the world thinking of the US as "bad president, good people" they'll now be thinking of us as "bad president, bad people"

Perhaps you didn't understand my post, Justin. This isn't about being liked. No ally "likes" you when on the take behind your back - to your peril. This is about respect. This is about cleaning up a corrupt UN. (Another place to keep watching in the news...) This is about telling the world to leave us alone.

There are a lot of things I do not agree with. I wish we'd develop alternative energy yesterday and tell the Middle East to go to hell. But oil = money, and money = power, and much of this is in one of the nastiest places on the planet. We cannot escape getting in the middle.

I'll be a happy man if they pump the place dry in my lifetime.

- Bill