Most styles existent today developed recently. Within the last couple of hundred years. Many martial styles are beginning here in the Western world (like BJJ).
This now calls entirely for speculation. What do you think will become of the martial arts as their center shifts from a traditional eastern one to a western one? Will new arts that develop lose their art status and become mere fight clubs, will people with no connection to the East act Japanese just because they...want to? I don't know. What do you all think?
I guess this is just one of my strange musings. But feel free to add your own to it.
--Brian
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Brian Barry
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Bill Glasheen
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Any art brought to a new culture will take on characteristics of that culture.
I would hardly call BJJ a Brazilian art, but that's the way it is thought of, isn't it? It's sort of like Uechi ryu being thought of as an Okinawan art, when it is largely a southern Chinese gung fu system. They didn't used to call it "China hand" (tode) for nothing.
Frankly I think it's entirely possible that the whole "style" concept may evolve. To think of something as Chinese or Okinawan or Western is rather provincial given our ability to exchange information. So I think we will evolve to styles drawing from more and more sources over time. Those that survive as a style will likely be something like the Uechi system, where there are extremely general kata like sanchin that can be expressed in many, many practical ways.
Just my own musings...
- Bill
I would hardly call BJJ a Brazilian art, but that's the way it is thought of, isn't it? It's sort of like Uechi ryu being thought of as an Okinawan art, when it is largely a southern Chinese gung fu system. They didn't used to call it "China hand" (tode) for nothing.
Frankly I think it's entirely possible that the whole "style" concept may evolve. To think of something as Chinese or Okinawan or Western is rather provincial given our ability to exchange information. So I think we will evolve to styles drawing from more and more sources over time. Those that survive as a style will likely be something like the Uechi system, where there are extremely general kata like sanchin that can be expressed in many, many practical ways.
Just my own musings...
- Bill
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Jake Steinmann
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I think ultimately, we're going to see an evolution away from 'style' as a concept.
As Mixed Martial Arts, cross-training, all-training, or whatever you want to call it, becomes more popular, the concept of a style is going to fade. We're already seeing people integrating weapons work, fear management skills, verbal tactics...stuff that a generation or so ago, people wouldn't even recognize as martial arts...
I think we'll see an evolution towards more holistic systems, instead of styles. Hopefully, we'll see more unity of training/teaching.
Whatever we see, it'll be interesting.
Jake
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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
As Mixed Martial Arts, cross-training, all-training, or whatever you want to call it, becomes more popular, the concept of a style is going to fade. We're already seeing people integrating weapons work, fear management skills, verbal tactics...stuff that a generation or so ago, people wouldn't even recognize as martial arts...
I think we'll see an evolution towards more holistic systems, instead of styles. Hopefully, we'll see more unity of training/teaching.
Whatever we see, it'll be interesting.
Jake
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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
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Bill Glasheen
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Jake
I believe the trend towards eclecticism has been going on for some time. However I still believe there is room for a style. The problem with teachers who teach too many things and make them a requirement is that the lack of a thread can create an impossible mix that few can draw together. Without the common thread that ties everything together, the individual isn't left with anything useful. And most do not have the discipline, time, money, or awareness to do their martial training a la carte.
In the past I have discussed with George a university concept. I believe this is something like what was done in the Shaolin temple. Everyone comes in and takes a set of core courses. They may be the major kata of a single style and some other basic requirements. Then individuals will specialize - something like declaring a major. A teacher will be there to guide the individual through his/her training. Much of the "major" material can come from the collective expertise in a large dojo, but anyone can do this training by attending camps, special seminars, and regional workouts. There will be various levels of certification in each one of these specialties. Those specialties could include various weapon forms, specialized kata, self defense, sparring, medicine and kyusho, health and fitness, etc.
I believe we are evolving to something like that now whithin our own system. But it will take time to completely come together.
- Bill
I believe the trend towards eclecticism has been going on for some time. However I still believe there is room for a style. The problem with teachers who teach too many things and make them a requirement is that the lack of a thread can create an impossible mix that few can draw together. Without the common thread that ties everything together, the individual isn't left with anything useful. And most do not have the discipline, time, money, or awareness to do their martial training a la carte.
In the past I have discussed with George a university concept. I believe this is something like what was done in the Shaolin temple. Everyone comes in and takes a set of core courses. They may be the major kata of a single style and some other basic requirements. Then individuals will specialize - something like declaring a major. A teacher will be there to guide the individual through his/her training. Much of the "major" material can come from the collective expertise in a large dojo, but anyone can do this training by attending camps, special seminars, and regional workouts. There will be various levels of certification in each one of these specialties. Those specialties could include various weapon forms, specialized kata, self defense, sparring, medicine and kyusho, health and fitness, etc.
I believe we are evolving to something like that now whithin our own system. But it will take time to completely come together.
- Bill
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Jake Steinmann
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Bill,
Actually, I think we may be on a similar wavelength here.
I think the notion of what a style constitutes may begin to change. Think about the number of Shaolin styles out there (to keep within that metaphor). Here are all of these people who do "Shaolin" Kung Fu. Yet you'll have two students of two shaolin schools that look very different. Why? Because their training has been tailored for them.
They've made their own style, based on a system.
Like I said, it will be interesting to see.
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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
Actually, I think we may be on a similar wavelength here.
I think the notion of what a style constitutes may begin to change. Think about the number of Shaolin styles out there (to keep within that metaphor). Here are all of these people who do "Shaolin" Kung Fu. Yet you'll have two students of two shaolin schools that look very different. Why? Because their training has been tailored for them.
They've made their own style, based on a system.
Like I said, it will be interesting to see.
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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
American Martial Arts
Bill - I REALLY like your approach and think that the university concept that you've discussed with GEM Sensei is a great idea.
Perhaps shodan is the entry level rank - the point where we are supposed to have a grip on the basics and are ready to expand our horizons. Ah, the end of sophomore status!
Much like a university, we could thus select courses of study to complement/supplement our basic foundation courses. And to receive certification based upon various levels of profiency in these areas is an exciting proposition. Or to create certificate programs, to again use a university analogy.
The goal would not be to pursue certification for its own sake, but to study a new art in enough depth to merit some formal acknowledgment of accomplishment.
I too hope that this happens - and sooner rather than later. Best regards, Steve
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D. Steven White
swhite@umassd.edu
Perhaps shodan is the entry level rank - the point where we are supposed to have a grip on the basics and are ready to expand our horizons. Ah, the end of sophomore status!
Much like a university, we could thus select courses of study to complement/supplement our basic foundation courses. And to receive certification based upon various levels of profiency in these areas is an exciting proposition. Or to create certificate programs, to again use a university analogy.
The goal would not be to pursue certification for its own sake, but to study a new art in enough depth to merit some formal acknowledgment of accomplishment.
I too hope that this happens - and sooner rather than later. Best regards, Steve
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D. Steven White
swhite@umassd.edu
American Martial Arts
Not to side track the University subthread, but about style-
It's a lot like language. Words and grammar, waza and principles. On one level kata is an elementary primer- the "See Spot run." of Martial arts. Object follows the verb just like hips move with the strike.
Some eclectic arts gather technique without ever having a system to put them together, like memorizing a seven-language foreign dictionary but not having any consistent grammar: you can argue with anybody but you won't win many debates.
And in the end, even with the same education and speaking the same native language, noone talks just like anyone else.
Rory
It's a lot like language. Words and grammar, waza and principles. On one level kata is an elementary primer- the "See Spot run." of Martial arts. Object follows the verb just like hips move with the strike.
Some eclectic arts gather technique without ever having a system to put them together, like memorizing a seven-language foreign dictionary but not having any consistent grammar: you can argue with anybody but you won't win many debates.
And in the end, even with the same education and speaking the same native language, noone talks just like anyone else.
Rory
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Kerry Jolly
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Does the reason why we study Karate matter? Is the outcome of our study for the history? Can we learn as much as the Japanese? Just pondering.
Sensei
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Jake Steinmann
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"Does the reason why we study Karate matter? "
DAMN RIGHT!!!
Whatever it is you do in life, you'd best have a reason for doing it. Because if you don't...well, you're going to waste a lot of time.
A friend of mine spent two years studying Uechi because she wanted to lose weight. Unfortunately, two Uechi classes a week are not terribly aerobic, and she didn't really see results.
Eventually, she dropped out of Uechi all together, and took up aerobics. Lost the weight, last I checked.
My point? Whatever your reasons are, you'd best have them, or else you could spend a long time walking the wrong path.
Jake
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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
DAMN RIGHT!!!
Whatever it is you do in life, you'd best have a reason for doing it. Because if you don't...well, you're going to waste a lot of time.
A friend of mine spent two years studying Uechi because she wanted to lose weight. Unfortunately, two Uechi classes a week are not terribly aerobic, and she didn't really see results.
Eventually, she dropped out of Uechi all together, and took up aerobics. Lost the weight, last I checked.
My point? Whatever your reasons are, you'd best have them, or else you could spend a long time walking the wrong path.
Jake
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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
