One Blow One Kill

[Dana Sheets]

Starting and Finishing

I've long heard "one strike one kill" for martial arts. The question is - do you get to do your killing strike as your only movement? Since we're stuck using Japanese terms to explore the historical principles of Okinawan arts I'd like to chat a little about the idea of "atemi" and "todome." A concept in fighting recently brought to my attention.

Here's what google had to offer:

http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/new_page_11.htm

Techniques...will exemplify a variety of different principles, which demonstrate the difference between "atemi waza" (striking techniques) and "todome waza" (finishing blow techniques).

http://pages.prodigy.net/david_wolfe/pm ... rms_T.html

Todome-no ichigeki is a term used to mean a finishing sword cup, i.e., a coup de grace.

http://pages.prodigy.net/david_wolfe/pm ... rms_A.html

Atemi, , means striking the body. They are the traditional striking technques aimed to a vital point on the opponent's body.

http://aikidojournal.com/new/index.php?id=74

There are kicks and strikes, but most are of the todome variety - finishing off a downed enemy or classic atemi - disruption of postural integrity so as to effect a killing method.

That last one from the Akido gentleman is my favorite. It says that we don't always start out with access to a killing blow that sometimes that access needs to be created by "disruption of postural integrity". The contemporary military terminology of Shock and Awe comes to mind as another metaphore.

So are there Uechi kata/drills/techniques that lend themselves to this idea and are there techniques that don't.

I think this is particularly important to women who train because of who we'll generally face in a self-defense situation. And it also sets up a certain mindset - you know you're doing certain techqnies not to stop the fight but to disrupt your bad guy to the point where you can do the kinds of techniques that will end the fight.

This connects with a couple of threads I've had earlier on hard-wired reactions. You spit in the face, they flinch. You grab for the scrotum, they'll use at least one hand to push you away or grab your grabbing arm while pulling the hips away from you. In looking at traditional kyusho there are techniques (like the ones where you rub your knuckles over the ears or under the nose) that won't ever knock anyone out - but they generate enough pain sensation to keep the bad guy from doing anything other than flinch away from you.

To me this is made somewhat manifest in the Uechi pattern of circle/something, circle/something, circle/something. And also in individual hajiki techniques like the eye rakes and the double hirkaen strikes.

So in Dan Kumite/Sanseiryu Bunkai - attacking the leg sets you up for the finishing technique of dumping them on their head.

The side snap kick in Kanshi kata breaks their balance at the knee to set you up for a variety of follow ups.

I don't buy into the idea that you can string 4, 5, or 6 of these things along and come up with guaranteed patterns. But I do like the idea of a few if/then tools in the toolbox.

Dana

[jorvik]

Well.......I've never killed anyone, and hopefully never will.
But as a spiritual experience, I've questioned the motives that may make me act, and the reasons behind them
....it's easy to kill, strike the temple or the throat, gently with the hand or hard with the elbow .it's really not that hard at all.....much easier than pulling a trigger....emotion, a responsive action to a percieved threat, an angry retort using physical expression
I dunno .....but I think that you could kill quite accidently

[Dana Sheets]

The finishing blow doesn't have to kill - but traditionally it does cause a whole lot of hurt. The bad guy/gal has no more right to be alive than you do - and if they're trying to take away your life then they have less of a right to their life IMO.

[Bill Glasheen]

Hi, Dana. Welcome back!

We are a week out of phase on the west coast trips...

What you write really strikes a chord with many of the bunkai I've been choreographing from Uechi kata. And yes, I too was struck with this statement.

There are kicks and strikes, but most are of the todome variety - finishing off a downed enemy or classic atemi - disruption of postural integrity so as to effect a killing method.

A number of things come to mind. I'll just brain dump them and you can sort them out later.

Bruce Miller really got me into investigating "reflex points." It is his contention that these targets work where others don't. Many kyusho points rely to some extent on a pain response, and pain receptors are subject to a change in response from conditioning, body fat, drug use, mindset, rage, etc. Meanwhile, the reflex points still work if you are standing and moving like a normal person. Understanding where they are and how to use them helps a lot in dealing with "problem cases."

You spoke of the Kanshiwa sokuto geri and the use at the knee. That becomes a reflex point technique only if you are operating from the side or the back of your opponent. That works if your movement is good. But another favorite spot for me is the femoral crease, which triggers the hip flexor. I learned that from Mayamiya. That one can be accessed from straight on. Both of these targets work temporarily to destroy the individual's control of center, which takes away their power base. It gives you time and opportunity to set up the stunning or killing blow.

Other favorite reflex points for me are the inside of the elbow and the suprasternal notch. But this has more to do with disrupting a technique or one's state of mind respectively. Same concept, but more as metaphor.

My great grandfather used to tell stories of his exploits as an immigrant teenager fighting for The Union Army, and later on the western frontier. He spoke of incidents where the Native Americans were so "pumped up" (psychologically and/or pharmacologically) that devastating shots and cuts to the midsection would not stop their charge. Dangling entrails would not deter their intent. The only thing that stopped the attack was physical destruction of the structure. Interesting... (Needless to say, precise rifle shots to the head from a distance in this kind of environment was out of the question.) I've since heard some interesting contemporary stories from a local firearms instructor that echoed this experience with a few crazed attackers. One autopsy he attended showed a blown-out left ventrical of the heart from a direct shot, and yet the person continued to fight for about 30 seconds.

disruption of postural integrity

Works for me!

BTW, here's something that made me chuckle.

To me this is made somewhat manifest in the Uechi pattern of circle/something, circle/something, circle/something.

How about the something/circle, something/circle, something/circle sequence in Seisan. This is one of several places in that kata (next time we get together...) where the final intent seems to be to get to the back of the neck and really off the guy. The whacks are a means to an end, and not an end unto themselves. It's particularly neat when you find the theme repeating in the form.

And that back of neck displays itself only after having "distrupted postural integrity."

- Bill

[Rick Wilson]

Hi Dana:

I referred to one of the aspects as Incremental Striking:

http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=12599

[Dana Sheets]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the link.

As I posted on another thead over there - incremental striking also means that they're still in striking distance. So you didn't knock them clear across the room with the first strike - you're basically spinning them in place getting them to flash vital areas at you for you to slam.

[jorvik]

quote
"Bruce Miller really got me into investigating "reflex points." It is his contention that these targets work where others don't. Many kyusho points rely to some extent on a pain response, and pain receptors are subject to a change in response from conditioning, body fat, drug use, mindset, rage, etc. Meanwhile, the reflex points still work if you are standing and moving like a normal person. Understanding where they are and how to use them helps a lot in dealing with "problem cases."

Hi Bill was this the guy whose forum you joined and whose book you read?
I often think that folks underestimate what they may come up against in a "real-life" situation, or the signals they send out......wearing a smart business suit as an example means that you have money to some ( but some of us have to wear them for work ).....and the predadtor who attacks us can be man mountain
check out
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=13443
on Van's forum......."This could be your student" .that's nicely put...funny......that could be anyone of us
what sequential strikes would you do against a guy like that
he's big, he's fat but he's got fast hands.
I'm not questioning the science..I just think that big fat guys are kinda hard to use nerve strikes on..you've gotta get through all that fat.
I think a one-knuckle punch to the temple would do the trick ( you'd have to bob and weave to land it )
but thta's not really the idea most folks have for that sort of thing

[Bill Glasheen]

Good questions, and good comments worthy of thoughtful responses. I'll take them one at a time.

was this the guy whose forum you joined and whose book you read?

No, but close! You are thinking of Dr. Michael Kelly, who can be found at dimmak.net. Dr. Kelly is an osteopath and former state policeman who has contributed much to a Western view of an Eastern art.

Bruce Miller is of the same genre, but a different fellow. He's a Physician's Assistant who studied Eastern massage and martial arts. He has put together his own martial art that is based on targeted, sequential striking. I bumped into him and a cast of other interesting characters on the now-defunct kyusho forum. (I think Evan bought the rights to the kyusho.com web name after it disbanded.) His website can be found here. And a list of some of his books, including the one I am talking about can also be found on FightingArts.com, as well as some artkicles by him (for example, article 1, article 2, and article 3 ). This book below is the specific one I am speaking of.



The astheticism and professionalism of his publications leave something to be desired, but Bruce knows what he is talking about.

It takes a lot of reading in the field to build a useful, coherent picture of the art.

I often think that folks underestimate what they may come up against in a "real-life" situation, or the signals they send out......wearing a smart business suit as an example means that you have money to some ( but some of us have to wear them for work ).....and the predadtor who attacks us can be man mountain

{snip}

what sequential strikes would you do against a guy like that
he's big, he's fat but he's got fast hands.
I'm not questioning the science..I just think that big fat guys are kinda hard to use nerve strikes on..you've gotta get through all that fat.

Good point, and good question.

I had a student I worked with - one-on-one - for several years. Tony was a remarkable fellow. When he was younger, he could dunk a basketball. By the time I got to working with him, he "admitted to" 325 pounds. He was fast. He was flexible. He had the ukemi skills of a judoka. He was downright dangerous. I lost a few students in class to him until I decided personally to take him under my wing and work with him until he learned a little more control. And since then, I have learned the merits of doing that. "Uncoordinated" and "untrained" people don't know they aren't supposed to do this or that. You damn well better have a response to their "mistakes", and explain the right way afterwards.

To give you and example... Tony once sprained my back after I "blocked" his spinning hook kick in dan kumite. My technique was impeccable - providing I was facing a normal human. Not so... Too much energy going from my arms, through my body, and to the floor. The back didn't like that. Silly me... Don't stand in the path of a bull!

I learned so much working with Tony, and vice versa. Tony honed his martial skills. And I learned where Tony's vulnerabilities were... I could get him every time if I wanted to...providing I hit first.

That's exactly why I fell in love with the reflex points, and I'm sure Bruce would agree. We all have vulnerable spots, no matter how big or mean we are. And these vulnerable spots each have unique responses when you hit them. The neat thing about any exposed reflex points is that the response doesn't change much with training, mindset, rage, or drugs. That's worth a lot!

These usually aren't "killer" or "final" shots. (There are exceptions...) These spots are like pushing buttons on the cash register to get the drawer to pop out. They allow you to manipulate your partner for some higher or more final purpose.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

Yes - Bruce has done his homework and some day I will buy his books.

And Bill I'm familiar with the groin to head combo for seisan (and not just seisan). One key to making that work is that you don't always get to stand still. You may need to do a little body shift or footwork shift to get yourself in the next position of advantage.

This is also part of keeping the bad guy close to you instead of knocking him away from you. As you hit and tenshin around - whether you're hitting with what are hopefully finishing blows or setup techniques - you want your body to be smart enough to know where to go next. That's the part that isn't in the kata and why each kata could have a two person drill to represent how body movement and footwork contribute to making successful combinations.

On my Okinawa trip Mr. Miyagi said "tenshin with every technique" - i.e. don't be a sitting duck. This also implies that you bad guy won't be standing still. But if your body can have automaticity with reflex actions then not only will your fighting be more effective but it will also be more efficient.

Dispatching the bad guy as quickly as possible is always a goal. I can't imagine that the elders put techniques in to the memory bank of kata that made a fight last a long time and gave the bad guy a chance to recover.

Today with lawsuits and all that we're more aware and subject to a force continuum, the "reasonable man" defense of whatever we do to save our lives. But that's not when the 2 fighting kata in Uechi were put together.

I think the classical atemi to todome sequence is represted by the elbow, backfist, shoken series in the Uechi kata. The mawashi hiji (round elbow) strike combined with the back fist get your bad guy dancing and then the shoken is intended to finish the job once his defenses are down.

Position, setup, finish.

So that seems to mean that by training you'll help your body figure out how to get to the position and setup place out of the flinch response in a low-brain way. Kinda like bump, set, spike in volley ball. A guideline, not an absolute. Sometimes you just dig, sometimes dig to spike, sometimes just jam it right back in their faces.

This is what I like about Rick's version of Night of the Living Dead - you start a little behind the 8 ball but in slow motion (at first). So you can get your body moving and start your setup...unless of course the bad guy is giving you the gift of a good open for a finish at the start, then....SPIKE!!!

And if bad guy doesn't stop you start 'round the circle again.

[Bill Glasheen]

Good points, Dana.

Movement is most definitely essential. The kata often leaves that out, and assumes that "it depends." Leaving that part of the equation for you to fill in maximizes the possibilities.

However sometimes you don't have to move to make it work. Sometimes the gift is right there. And sometimes the movement is what you are doing between the moves. It's just hard to visualize it in the kata.

The Seisan sequences I spoke of above have at least 3 different variations on the same theme. The first I figured out myself. Two others I figured out elsewhere. One I got by watching my distant cousin (Ed Glasheen) doing a jiujitsu sequence on his webpage. Another I got from a Systema sequence in the most recent issue of JAMA. In all three of those, very little "adjustment" is needed. It really is all there if you squint your eyes and look just the right way.

But yes... Movement is key. And it is particularly useful when you are a toreador facing a bull. Ole!!!

- Bill

[JimHawkins]

disruption of postural integrity

This is huge and relates very much with CMAs. This is discussed all the time in WCK and is referred to as destruction of the opponent's structure; which almost always involves stealing balance.

These concepts are closely connected with use of the centerline, center of gravity and how generating and vectoring force into the CG via atemi or any other kind of 'energy issuing' is intended not merely to injure, rather making contact is a form of energy issuing intended to bring about the destruction of the opponent’s structure and therefore his ability to use his weapons.

The circle thingy is another example; When used for seizing it should injure and destroy structure.

In CMA you never do one without the other. All things work synergistically to take things away from the opponent until there is nothing left to take but his life.

In some other styles like Shotokan I do think that the emphasis does involve working toward focusing all of your mind/body energy into one totally committed killing blow, all or nothing; life or death.

Let's see if Marcus agrees.

[Stryke]

Ikken hisatsu , one strike kill

It is focused on but is actually just a focus on commiting everything to the strike

It`s more like punch with everything youve got because it may be your only chance .

It`s also a strategy , fein weakness and then commit everything to the initial attack .

of course follow up is mandatory , I cant recall which book but Finakoshi recommended the strategy for womens self defence If I recall correctly

[Eric Daniel]

Hey guys,
I don't remember what year, date or much about but I do remember reading an article in Black Belt Magazine about kenpos numerous strikes versus one strike, One kill. I will look and get more info about the article in the Magazine and let everyone know what date,year, and more info on the article.
Later, Eric Daniel

[Sochin]

Instead of atemi and todome, we use sundome and todome.

Sundome is surface hitting, suitable for sparring or incapacitating someone you don't want to hurt. Todome is deep penetration, trying to kill.

Sensei Kim said that the real usefulness of kata is that it is the only place we can practice todome with full concious and sub-concious integration, without killing anyone.

Traditional karate seems flexible on the matter: in the same book we will be told: "Destroy your enemy with many small injuries." and "One punch, one kill."

[thumper_wabbit_dammit]

Was osok one of the original concepts of uechi?