Post your Sanchin Kata Video here

[Stryke]

It’s surprising where I see Shotokan show up in your kata. I see it in the three wauke’s. You do not post the fingers at the elbow pit as per the main stream. You do not lead with a vertical palm as I do. You collapse your 90 degree elbow position and wrap your forearm across your neck and over your shoulder. I guess if you lifted the elbow it would be turning with Dracula’s Cape and the leading of the jousting elbow.

But I do not believe it is Dracula’s cape I believe I’m seeing the chambered arm position I see in shotokan in turns just before the gedan barri (SP).

thats exactly what your seeing , I beleive draculas cape and gedan barai are the same , ones a pure entry and the others of a parry intercept , the same concept exspressed differently . I personally beleive at this stage the wauke has to be done with a upper guard or else it is a purely outside technique . I may be corrected in the future

I beleive the three conflicts in Sanchin are Inside , outside , and grounding . But positional strategy is my may of relating martially , you find what you wish .

The footwork has to be a bee och for you

It truly is mate , the fact is Ive been lazy with it , I can get away with a higher centre than most because I rely on explosiveness IMHO , but it is shear lazyness , I`m relying on one characteristic to make up for another , I will work on it .

I'd caution you against going too far in one direction with the lateral rotation on the double sided strikes.

I picked up on this watching the clip before I posted , I deffinately agree , the way i was doing it was entirely ineffective IMHO , I also usually pause on the double thrust , I was just trying visuallising it as something different after watching kevins . He inspired me to play with it .

however check out your left side/right side differences - it seems one side is better aligned than the other when you strike. Your left side strikes from where it lands while your right side has an extra wiggle to it that seems to have you leaving the ground and rotating your back foot outward...just pay attention to the two sides and see if one is more efficient than the other for you.

This is golden , thanks , I`m only just getting to feel how to internalise the rotation with sinking ... I could do one or the other but never both , I`m excited to see where the next few months take me . I realise I`m going to need to get much smaller , But my learning process is by feel and not imitation so it takes a while and then process tends to be rapid ... stay tuned

1…On your opening you tend to lean forward on the double arm thrust. I believe this breaks your balance forward and does not assist in your rooting as it moves your torso off of your base. Try remaining erect on the thrust and see if you feel a difference in your rooting. I have the same problem and try to rectify it by thinking forward on the double thrust instead of down, but I follow the same trajectory on the thrust

Actually mate the forward leaning thing is not unintentional , I see it as a technique against a shoot , I guess I`m visualising a bit much , Im prepared to sprawl backwards when I do this technique and fall onto my attack , I`m willing to alter it , but this is the only application that meets my criteria of positional strategy , any ideas of other applications that leave you defended and taking control ?

2….On your draw backs for the Sanchin arm thrusts I see much improvement you are starting to minimize and internalize that rotation. It’s got to get to big before it gets smaller, listen to your body.

Not many of the forumites will beleive it`s getting smaller , your right though , I had to go to the extreme to get onto the right path , It`ll start coming together now . The shoulder needs a bit of work , I dont like the visualisation of the rear elbow strike , I`m going to throw it away for a bit and see what develops .

5….. The Wauke! Well my friend I can certainly tell were your headed, you’re going to rip someone’s head off and bend their bodies over your knee with that explosive attack! Good on ya!

Visiting Van inspired me , I dont think I`ll consider a wauke any other way now until i learn to use it as pure destruction ...

Thanks everyone for your help ... keep em coming folks , i know your lurking .

[JimHawkins]

Actually mate the forward leaning thing is not unintentional , I see it as a technique against a shoot

Then aren't you open to the reverse use of energy, e.g. sucking/yanking you forward? This is what should happen if you clinch or clash like that IMO from a tactical standpoint assuming the opponent is good or lucky.

For the shoot I find that some Chinese styles like to sink down, break or compress structure and meet the shoot and clinch low, so they drop and meet them or clinch smother or smash down on them. Just another option perhaps. I've seen grapplers do similar things where instead of sprawling they sink and get under, throw the guy off and hit.

[Ruiner]

Wow I appreciate all the feedback and comments.

My next sanchin video will surely incorporate them

I don't mind being put under a microscope, things you just don't see when your practicing by yourself.

Dana thanks for your input, on the double thrusts i'll bring my arms back through sanchin.

Marcus I like your kata, very powerful.

Cheers

[Stryke]

Thanks Jim , I know exactly what you mean , I`ll try It

[Dana Sheets]

Well guess I better pony up...And in this clip I even try to hide in a crowd...

Did I miss something? I didn't see a link to a clip. Laird - can you repost it or show me where it is?

Thanks,
Dana

[Guest]

[img]http://www.ervilha_17.blogger.com.br/hommer%20simpson.jpg[/img]

Doh!!! Hmm wonder what Freud would say about that.

http://banffuechiryu.tripod.com/sanchin0405.wmv

[Dana Sheets]

Hi Laird,

Well there's no question that you won't find me standing in front of any of your strikes! You'd take my head clean off!

My comments are mostly on small things - so take 'em or leave 'em. Especially since you've got decades more experience doing this stuff!!! So please take my comments as questions and tell me why what you're doing is working for you!

On your open and your first sanchin thrust you seems to have some extra head movement. I find that the more still I keep my head the better my own balance.

On your stepping I see you sometimes adjust your rear foot after the front foot has stepped. Most of the time you're moving it out a little bit. To me that usually means that your crescent ended a little shorter than your body would like and so it moves the back foot to get you into a yummy stance. I'd see if you can find the happy place with just the front leg to eliminate the extra resettling on the back leg. Again - this is a small point of form - your stepping overall is strong and well-balanced.

Your targeting on your double bushikens seems to vary on the three different strikes. Is that intentional? In particular on the final one your lower hand isn't much lower - fine if you know what you're doing with it.

You seem much more relaxed than the last clips I remember and it looks good.

My last question is about your transitions between the three busikens. On the first two it seems like you rise a tad into the stepping and then sink into the strike. The third one not so much...can you please tell me what you're doing there?

Thanks,
Dana

[benzocaine]

On your stepping I see you sometimes adjust your rear foot after the front foot has stepped. Most of the time you're moving it out a little bit. To me that usually means that your crescent ended a little shorter than your body would like and so it moves the back foot to get you into a yummy stance.

I do the same thing unless I concentrate very hard. Maybee you have an answer to a problem I've been having Dana.

[Guest]

Dana, thank you for taking the time to respond with some feed back you rock! My appologies for taking so long to get back to you, been burning the candle at both ends of late.

My comments are mostly on small things - so take 'em or leave 'em.

I’ll take em! I’ve always value your opinion. This is what we need when we bare our ryu, honest feedback!

I’m in the process of incorporating several changes in my Sanchin and am not at all happy with it at the present time. In fact I’m not happy with any of my kata at the moment. All feedback is gratefully accepted.

What I’m trying to incorporate into my Sanchin over the next few months:

Rotation and more focus on rooting in my opening

Relaxing on the thrusts and letting them travel unrestricted the natural length of the thrust.

Thrusting lower and sinking the angle into the body on contact, the angle drops at the point of contact

Using more back and upper traps to break the thrust and pull it back. I tend to tear my shoulders apart and reduce the travel of the thrust by stopping the thrust with my shoulder.

Pointing the knees over the big toes.

Changing the boshiken strikes to use more compression and enter the target at two different angles as opposed to the forward pushing strike.

Changing the second turn in the wauke sequence into more of an absorption.

Especially since you've got decades more experience doing this stuff!!! So please take my comments as questions and tell me why what you're doing is working for you!

Stop it Dana, I’ll pee my pants laughing. I started this journey in the late seventies. I left for a couple of decades while I navigated life. I am what I claim to be …an entry level student.

OPENING:


I agree the head must be over the base! I’m working in a new opening thrust that involves more rotation than I have played with in the past. Don’t have it quite down yet. I’m allowing the trust to pull me off by base instead of sinking. Rick picked it up too

The head bob on the opening thrust is kind of funny, it was something in my neck letting go and my spine going back to were it belongs. It felt great after that! If word gets out sanchin will put the chiropractors out of business.


STEP:

On your stepping I see you sometimes adjust your rear foot after the front foot has stepped. Most of the time you're moving it out a little bit. To me that usually means that your crescent ended a little shorter than your body would like and so it moves the back foot to get you into a yummy stance. I'd see if you can find the happy place with just the front leg to eliminate the extra resettling on the back leg. Again - this is a small point of form - your stepping overall is strong and well-balanced

The rear heel coming up is an issue, the heal lifts on some of the strikes. It turns in on some of the strikes. I’ll experiment with a slightly wider stance and see if I can improve the rooting.

I’ve been experimenting a great deal with opening and closing the lower qwa to see how it impacts my power. When we see the heel turn in I’ve actually opened the hip on the strike and allowed the hip and mass to come forward with the strike. It adds reach but not much power and destroys the root. This is similar to pivoting on the ball of the foot and pointing the heel at the opponent when you throw a round kick, it opens the qwa of the rear foot. So what you are seeing is the vestiges of bad habits left behind by that research.

When we see the heal turn out on the thrusts I think the bad habits from a year of exploration of rotational forces in Sanchin are appearing in on the kata. Over rotation of the upper body on the strike.

I think you are correct the solution to both of these traits lie in the stance. I have being tinkering with my base a great deal this week trying to improve these poor mechanics.

One thing that is becoming evident is that my knees must press directly over my big toe. I use my knees to start rotation. When I allow my knees to come out of alignment with my toes and they travel to far inside my stance; the heel lifts and rotates outward on the strike. The heel is dragged by the thrust and as I push I end up pushing with the ball of the foot. I’ve found that when toe and knee are properly aligned the push starts in the heal of the rear foot and the body weight can shift from the heel of the rear foot to the font foot on the strike.

I also discovered that I could keep the lower qwa closed and stop the heel from turning in by keeping the knees pressed towards the big toe. The only way the qwa can open and the heel can move inward on the thrust is if the knees are pressed out off the stance towards the little toes.

So I quess working on this alignment and width of the stance may just solve both issues for me!!!

[Dana Sheets]

Hi Laird,

I'm gald you found the comments helpful. I'm also happy to hear that someone else is unhappy with their own kata. Misery loves company!

you said: "One thing that is becoming evident is that my knees must press directly over my big toe"

I don't know if you've heard this before or not but my understanding of the "traditional" sanchin stance (for what it's worth) is that the on the rear foot the knee is over the toe and on the front foot the knee is over the instep.

Rotation is a funny thing. Rock hard linear sanchin is safe - start adding rotation and you add more opportunities for error while at the same time adding exponentially more opportunities for growth and person body awareness and, IMHO, greater power.

Happy tweaking...

[Guest]

Target selection:

My last question is about your transitions between the three busikens. On the first two it seems like you rise a tad into the stepping and then sink into the strike. The third one not so much...can you please tell me what you're doing there?

I’ll answer this one first because it also will help clarify where I hope to take the boshiken strikes. I have been experimenting with just blasting the wauke at people as a weapon. Nailing them in the head/neck with the forearm and ripping their upper body over to the hip. (Some interesting hawk and sparrow applications can flow out of it) This mind set has crept into my kata explorations and it has become a bit of a pounce and sink in the first two turns. I see the wauke as an entry and not a defensive structure.

The last wauke still has the closing concept embedded in it. I always perform this as a jamming technique, usually with a slight sliding step and a foot pin. In the past there use to be a pronounced foot slap of the front foot, but over time the movement is becoming more subtle. I’m still exploring the ripping wauke as a weapon here but it’s not the main goal.

Your targeting on your double boshikens seems to vary on the three different strikes. Is that intentional? In particular on the final one your lower hand isn't much lower - fine if you know what you're doing with it.

Basically, just lazy performance to some degree. The clip was our opening class warm up, but my strikes are sloppy. I’m working on changing the strikes from what they have become to what I’d like to do with them. In this kata I’m just enjoying the opening and closing of the upper qwa and focusing on ripping the wauke or casting the net as some call it. I’m paying no particular attention to the strikes. The last strike sequence is deliberate as far as position of hands is concerned.

Here is where I’m going with the strikes and turns and why they are not the same. I’ll post a kata again in the fall, hopefully I will have managed to incorporate many of the changes I outlined in the previous post.

1st turn and strike:

I try to utilize the turn as a slip off line and a partial close. This sequence will use a strike targeting the neck and the groin because the distance the foot work moves you too makes these targets attractive. This strike is the straightest of the three and has less diagonal compression than the other two, but there should be some, not just a straight push. I’ve picked up the habit of just pushing folks away in bunkai, usually a hand on the face chin or neck and the other in the solar plexus or chest and just throwing them back. Not a good Uechi Strategy because you have to close again but it

2nd turn and strike:

I see this turn as stepping off line and absorbing as a result I see the line of force coming past me and the target is different. The upper hand is a bit lower and is a bit of an elbow shoulder check on the target and the lower hand is hitting on the inside around the stomach solar plexus area. I’m more concerned with filling the middle with the upper hand and sinking the strike with the lower.


3rd turn and strike:

This turn I see as closing and jamming, if the wauke removes the head all the better. A pre emptive wauke, close straight up the middle if need be. The strikes on this turn have more diagonal compression than the other two. I target the ribs just under the nipple on the upper hand and around or on the floating ribs on the lower hand. I sink with the strike and push towards the center from both sides. It’s an interesting strike.

I tested it on Ryan the other day. Starting with both palms on his body and managed to take all of his air. He said it was like getting hit in the solar plexus but my hands were well away. I’m not sure what is going on but I like the result.

Because on the draw back of the elbows in the wauke the shoulders and ribs are open. This is harnessed in the diagonal striking by closing adding more compression to the strike.

The alignment of the toes was affecting my base and Sanchin thrusts. I’ve also found that the chambering of the elbows affects my boshiken strikes.

If I chamber the elbows tight to my side, my ribs don’t open much and the direction of the strikes also is restricted pretty much too forward energy.

If I chamber my elbows wider I open up the shoulders and ribs more. I end up with more joints to compress in the strike; I also find the compression drives both strikes into the middle. It can be used as a fill the center strategy. But more importantly it allows me to strike the target from two different directions at the same time. I like this as it appears to be more disruptive to the target and much more difficult to just absorb.

Sorry for the ramble just some thoughts on where I want to go with my kata and why. I have much to change and incorporate over the next while.

We had some comments on another thread about martial fantasy. Well without the imaginary warrior in my kata I think mine would be less predatory. Visualization plays a big part in my kata; many think of the body mechanics, I think I focus on application and positional strategy when doing kata. Guess that’s why it looks like it does at the moment.

[Guest]

I don't know if you've heard this before or not but my understanding of the "traditional" sanchin stance (for what it's worth) is that the on the rear foot the knee is over the toe and on the front foot the knee is over the instep.

Dana I first learned and practiced the same method. I think we are almost on the same page. Stances are things we transition through and don’t stand rooted in during combat, but utilize principles of motion or mechanics as we move these reference points. At the point of contact in a Sanchin thrust I try to have both knees pressed forward over the big toe. I find it allows for good weight transfer from the heel of the rear foot to the ball of the front foot which adds mass.

It also serves to allow more rotation on the strike. The knee is the stop on the rotation of the base. When my knee is pressed over the instep on the lead foot I don’t have as much rotation as I’m looking for. If I allow the knee to travel outside of the big toe I over rotate and the thrust draws the rear foot out from under the base.



I do have a slightly different front knee position than the one most people use during hojo undo drills. My knees are always moving as it’s were the power generation starts from for me. But I try to limit the amount they come in on the front foot as I found in the old days I was more open to front leg sweeps and kicks when my knee bent inward. So I suspect I have modified my base to fit my present method and understanding.

Rotation is a funny thing. Rock hard linear sanchin is safe - start adding rotation and you add more opportunities for error while at the same time adding exponentially more opportunities for growth and person body awareness and, IMHO, greater power.

Yup I agree, and it’s all a pursuit of power for me, I’ll never be happy! I find for every positive change there are a ton of new body mechanics to work out and all the harmonies adjust. And some times it just doesn’t work but you discover why you were told to do it a certain way in the past.

Happy tweaking

Guess I better be, I don’t think it ever ends. I was the kind of kid who took things apart to see how they worked and never put them back together again. I’m hoping one dayI manage to put Sanchin back together in a manner I’m comfortable with.

Laird

[Guest]

http://banffuechiryu.tripod.com/sanchin_21_06_05.wmv

[Stryke]

Thanks Laird , you beat Rick to hosting it

All comments welcome guys , thick skin and all

looking forward to the help from the cyber dojo .....

[Rick Wilson]

http://www.wilsonkarate.com/videos/marc ... e_2005.wmv

So there!!!