London - We are with you!

[Bill Glasheen]

Ian, it's not just a long difficult road.it's a road to nowhere ...You won't get the changes that you want in Iraq. It will go to Fundamentalism or something else.it won't go to US style democracy, complete with burger bars,wallmarts and presidents with coloring books. We have been let down badly by the leaders in our countries....one day we will just have to walk away

jorvik

You remind me of someone I know...




Just my opinion, which isn't worth more than 2 cents here.

- Bill

[chef]

Can you ISM me in the next 10 minutes....need you to search something on the forum for me.

chef

[Guest]

Tony, I suppose it's hyperbole, and cynicism.... but do you really think it'll do the USA any long term good to poison large swaths of soverign nations with radiation? Something tells me the insurgents would STILL be upset about the treatment of their mosque if it was unusable for hundreds of years.

Ian, you can enter an area thats been hit with a Neutron bomb within 24 hours. Sorry, I guess I should have mentioned that. perfect weapon for irradicating a mosque. Should have been used.

[Bill Glasheen]

There are some extreme feelings being expressed in this thread. It's difficult to know when to yank the reigns a bit. To some extent I let the group talk it out when they can, as Ian is doing above with Tony.

I applaud Akil's restraint here. He presents ONE Muslim point of view below. (Remember, there are many brands of the Muslim faith, as there are many brands of Christianity). ESPECIALLY because he's biting his tongue and trying to figure out how to speak his mind without inflaming, I'm pasting a PM he just sent to me. As is...

Bill,

Hope u dont mind me pm'ing when I have something troubling me big time (as opposed to inflammatory posting on your forum).......

On July 4th, some threads that I posted were eliminated (withdrawn-as is your right) and I publicly stated that I suported that decision (and I still do)......

I know this is too much to respond to immediately, so take your time.....me in no big hurry.......I would rather pm you this rant than place it on your forum directly....that way, i only make you mad (not my intention-really)....seriously, that way, you are fee to do with it as you feel fit, no need to say anything that embarrasses you or me, publicly......

It is however, very disapointing that, the same editorial license has not been used in the matter of the "London-We are With You"- train bombing thread (have been waiting patiently).

The thread that you started to (I am assuming here) to show sypmpathyy with those who suffered in London seems to have degenerated into a lets nuke Muslim nations or let's nuke Muslim people's thread........

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for how to respond to the terrorists. rather than turning the thread of memorium for those who have died or suffered into a thread on "how to get revenge for London" or how to revenge against the Muslims" (clearly, some Muslims are responsible for terrorists bombings, so arent they all?.......)





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We could Nuke the Middle east to Glass and I suspect those left would still bomb .
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so glad we are not advocating making the innocent suffer for the misdeeds of few


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Once the money stops flowing over there, they'll kill each other over stuff like wether Muhummad became a prophet at 40 or was he born a prophet.. you know, important stuff like that.
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this seems somewhat off topic regarding the tradegy in London that we all agree was both senseless and wrong


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Ignorance is the petri dish for hate
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Agreed.

And Americans are as ignorant of the Muslims as the Muslims are Ignorant of Americans.

Can you see why I work so hard to educate both Muslims and non-muslims about each other?



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No more oil bussiness = massive lentil and camel consumption. When that is all gone, they'll stoop to eating carob pods then when thats all gone, they'll eat each other. Eventually, the desert will swallow them all up and we'll be rid of them once and for all.
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I am not saying that there is no room for sentiments like this. As far as I can tell, Tony is letting out his frustration, which seems reasonable, although there might be different threads that might more readily hold such loose lips postings, separate from the thread decrying the recent tradegy......


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I made a comment once before about turning the MId east into a sheet of glass.. but that's unrealistic at best plus it's not what I'd truly want. Us pushing a button or two would be just as evil and cowardly as ordering or blackmailing an impressionable young man into a sucicide bombing, as Al Queida has been known to do.
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there has been a lot of evil and cowardly stuff on both sides.....when does it end.........


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To some extent, the same can be said for countries whose main product is the oil underneath their houses. This isn't about sweat equity; it's about tapping into a resource that they did little to produce and process. The power that comes from it then corrupts more than power that might come from a country with a greater work ethic.
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our country seems to have a better work ethic and despite that, we support the saudi oil cronnies and their wahabi sect that exports their fanatical brand of Islam the world over, pushing out more tolerant forms of Islam (especially those that are supportive of reasonable treatment of both genders).

We wouldnt know this, however, unless we got past our ignorance and our hatred of one another



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That's a great long term goal but for now capturing, squeezing intel out of them, along with hunting and killing them where they squat is best.
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perhaps we could just torture any suspects we come across. Ooooops, torturing makes us as bad as them, and it seems that not only are we good at it, but we enjoy it, too. And it rarely brings viable intel....innocents havent anything to tell and innocents are the vast majority of those rounded up. How will you ever know who is tellking the truth and who is just telling you anything just to get you to stop torturing them........


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I just dont think these folks will give up because of military action .
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that's right, military action wont solve this problem. If military action could have solved this problem, it would have by now. How many more countriues need to be invaded and would it help in the least? We already have forces in countries that we dont even know about fighting alqaeda (philipines, etc) and is it helping?

we are fighting on their soil, not ours, right?

well, it appears that that tactic is not working cuz now it is seeping back on to our soil......is it possible that our enemy wants to take the fight to us as bad as we want to take the fight to them?



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For example, had I been the president of the United States, I would have authorized the use of a Neutron Bomb to irradicate Al Sadr and his filthy goons from the Mosque in Najaf. Yes, I would have had the commander clear out the city and then detonate a neutron bomb about.. oh... 100-200 yards from the mosque. The radiation would have killed everyone in it but the building would be just fine.. oh, and there probably wouldn't be as intense of an insurgency as there is now because that is where all the schit actually started. I will go so far as to say the insurgency in Iraq as it is now is directly related to how we handled Al Sadr.
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A lack of moderating leads folks to take more and more radical positions.......I can give as well as take, but I dont think that you want to go down there, thus I am exhibiting some considerable self control, by not posting equally wacked out stuff.....


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Islam it self promots peace, but the muslim world is living in the middle ages.

So whats my point?

REFORM WILL TAKE A VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME.
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Need I remind that Christianity would never have become reformed if not for the help of Islam and, Islamic scholars, etc.......Europe was in the midst of "dark Ages", had burned most, if not all of its books from the greek and roman times.......Europe came out of the middle ages with the help of Muslims (and Muslim scholars) and their decided openness as a society.....

Say that the world is round and I will jail your arse

say that the planets and the stars revolve around anything other than us and your dead meat......

ooooops, sorry, that was how you were treated under Christian reform methods....anybody need a good inquisition?

And when did the inquisition start? Just as soon as the Muslims were kicked out of Spain?

When was the most dangerous time for Jews in Spain? After the Chrstian king and Queen eliminated Islamic rule in Spain.......That is when the inquisition started........

should we continue to pretend that Christianity is this peaceful religion when we know that the inquisition was another massive example of converting people to chrsitianity by use of the sword (embrace catholism and renounce judaism or Islam or be killed-nice choice).......but who do we say does this deed?

your right bill, it is ignorance on both sides, of the other, that makes this fight so easy to perpetuate.......so what are you willing to do about it?

[Guest]

My bad, the inventor of the bomb says several days.

http://www.answers.com/topic/neutron-bomb

Ian, if I really wanted to destroy the country, as president of the United States, I would have chosen another nuke in our inventory, the Cobalt Bomb.

[Bill Glasheen]

Soooo....

Everybody play nice.

I'm impressed that folks are speaking their hearts - what they REALLY think - and everyone's keeping civil. Extreme actions begat extreme feelings. Letting them come to the surface and testing the waters with them in a civil group is IMO a constructive thing. That is, as long as you're willing to listen to the reaction of those with a different view on things.

Let's keep up the good work. All this begins and ends with respect for the other's point of view. That's the solution to London as well.

- Bill

[Stryke]

I kind of agree with Jorvik , I dont beleive military action will work .

However I think theres a chance with a nation building exercise if done right .

however it`s far bigger than even George W has admitted .

unless theres a huge concerted effort on part of the world , it`ll probably fail .

I hope not .

tactical Nukes are an option if the might is right philosophy is taken

[MikeK]

quote MikeK:
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That's a great long term goal but for now capturing, squeezing intel out of them, along with hunting and killing them where they squat is best.
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Quote Akil:
perhaps we could just torture any suspects we come across. Ooooops, torturing makes us as bad as them, and it seems that not only are we good at it, but we enjoy it, too. And it rarely brings viable intel....innocents havent anything to tell and innocents are the vast majority of those rounded up. How will you ever know who is tellking the truth and who is just telling you anything just to get you to stop torturing them........

Akil, I was referring to terrorists, jihadi or insurgents. I also a said squeeze intel out of them, not torture them for fun. Many of these guys will sing like birds with just a little help. I'll ignore your statement that we (the US) enjoy torture for now. Also hunting them down and killing them is perfectly acceptable as a solution to thinning their numbers and lowering their morale

[AAAhmed46]

Akil, you make it look like this is just about religion. OBVIOUSLY it is a factor, but there are many factors as well.

Same goes for you tony, there is alot of factors here. Both the western powers and the mid-east are at fault here, though more the mid-east.

Before Iraq, if you walked into a mosque and said 'i hate america' 75% of muslims there would argue against you. HOWEVER if you said osama is evil, those same men would not agree. NOW however, those same 75% would agree with you about america, but will disagree with you about osama. It seems, now, that muslims view osama and america like this]

osama=Evil

America= Corruption.

Osama has political goals, and he recruits using these political situations. Al-quada has grown in the middle east since 9/11.

[Guest]

Same goes for you tony, there is alot of factors here. Both the western powers and the mid-east are at fault here, though more the mid-east.

I know that. I was just saying the George Bush fuq'd up dealing with Al Sadr. I was just saying we could have used a Neutron warhead to take care of it.

[AAAhmed46]

They should have used that in iraq. Many sacred christian and muslims shrines were distroyed in the iraq war.

[Guest]

It would have actually spared them.

I'm not sure what Ian was talking about... he probably thinks all nukes are like Hiroshima or something. We don't have too many of those anymore.

[Mills75]

I say we send Bin Laden a message through Al Jazzera or however that is spelled that he has won a free 52 inch widescreen picture in picture Sony television set and to show up at the Kabul Wal mart to pick it up and when he opens the box to get out his new tv. KABOOOOOOM!!
Ted kazinski bomb inside. Teds not doing much these days let him take a brake from woodshop and work on a package for Bin ladens sweepstakes win lol..

Yeah, we're with ya London hang in there cause every dog has his day and it's only a matter of time and patience!!
Time and patience all you need in life!!

Jeff

[Guest]

HAH! You think he'd fall for it Jeff?

[Mills75]

LOL Tony he just might ya never know LOL..It would be funny to see him running around with nails sticking out of his head and his turban on fire if he did.. His kidney machine blown all to hell and cussing cause his womens sandals were all scorched and the rubber melted all over his feet lol. I wonder if those dresses he wears would go up in flames like pantyhose on a flight attendant lol. I hope when he's sleeping in his cave one of these days that a rat crawls up his skirt and bites him on the nuggets lol

Another thing we could do is infect all the sheep in his suspected area with mad cow disease so when he goes to make an Afghan Big Mac he goes all retarded and cross eyed and falls off a cliff lol..

Meanwhile Saddam is all gruff with the Pearl Jam grundge look from the early nineties chilling and eating a snickers bar telling everyone how innocent he is..lol Looking like Jerry Garcia on crack and eatin a snickers lol..