London - We are with you!

[MikeK]

How much understanding do we need Akil? I've been trying to understand these maggots well before 9/11 and at this point it just doesn't matter. They kill people who are minding their business, they blow up children who just want candy, they saw off the heads of naive non-combatants. Sorry my friend but I'm all out of understanding and I won't be getting a refill until they stop, or are stopped.

[Mills75]

I have to admit also as Tony said I saw not a bit of torture in any of those pics. I saw one guy waiting to get hosed down and yeah so the soldier thought it was kind of funny I'd also try hard not to giggle at a guy covered in doo doo.
And I saw one nurse leaning over smiling for a pic while seeing to a guys wounds. I didn't see anything that even resembled torture so the torture must be implied or imaginery at least in the case of these photos.

As to a couple of my posts I realize they probably were not in the best of taste and most was in jest but as Mike said I apologize for that and have nothing against Muslims who do not harm people but I said terrorists specifically which puts them into an inhuman category to me I never said muslims or anything near that I said THE TERRORISTS and I have to admit I don't have sympathy in all honesty for terrorists who kill innocents and women and children and civilians as Mike said so well and I won't apologize for not caring about terrorists who kill my people.

Jeff

[MikeK]

So maybe this wasn't an independent group?

ABC News
London Bombers Tied to Al Qaeda Plot in Pakistan
Two Key Figures Still at Large, Officials Say
By BRIAN ROSS

- At least two men who have connections to last week's London bombings are alive and still at large.

The first is a man, who was seen on surveillance tapes at Luton station, located outside of London, as he bid farewell to the four bombers the morning of the attacks. The other is Magdy El Nashar, an Egyptian chemist, who attended and received training at North Carolina State University.

British police think El Nashar may have helped the London group build their bombs before leaving England two weeks before the attacks. They have since issued a worldwide alert for him.

The picture shows Hasib Hussain, 18, at the Luton train station at 7:20 a.m., one week ago today. Two-and-a-half hours later, his backpack full of explosives was detonated. It killed him and 13 others on a crowded double-decker bus.

Now police are on the search for answers to how such a plot was carried out. "Who supported them? Who financed them?" asked Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of the Anti-Terrorist Branch of the Metropolitan Police. "Who trained them? Who encouraged them?"

Connection to Al Qaeda Plot in Pakistan

Officials tell ABC News the London bombers have been connected to an al Qaeda plot planned two years ago in the Pakistani city of Lahore.

The laptop computer of Naeem Noor Khan, a captured al Qaeda leader, contained plans for a coordinated series of attacks on the London subway system, as well as on financial buildings in both New York and Washington.

"There's absolutely no doubt he was part of an al Qaeda operation aimed at not only the United States but Great Britain," explained Alexis Debat, a former official in the French Defense Ministry who is now a senior terrorism consultant for ABC News.

At the time, authorities thought they had foiled the London subway plot by arresting more than a dozen young Britons of Pakistani descent last August in Luton, a city known for its ties to terrorism.

"For some time, the locus of terrorism in Britain has been around the Luton area and in some of the northern cities," said Michael Clark, professor of defense at King's College in London.

Security officials tell ABC News they have discovered links between the eldest of the London bombers, Mohammed Sadique Khan, 30, and the original group in Luton. Officials also believe it was not a coincidence the subway bombers all met at the Luton train station last week.

"It is very likely this group was activated last year after the other group was arrested," Debat said.

One of Khan's friends informed the BBC today that Khan had undergone training for explosives at terror camps in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. This piece of information only strengthened the London-Pakistani connection.

ABC News' Rhonda Schwartz, David Scott, Jill Rackmill, Madeleine Sauer and Simon Surowicz contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures

[Bill Glasheen]

The plot does thicken, Mike.

I have heard of this El Nashar fellow before - the one who trained at NC State.

Also missing from this article is a Jamaican who was the fourth homicide bomber. So it wasn't all one nationality on the brainwashed/suicide front.

Another interesting detail that comes out is that these explosives likely were made in someone's bathtub - probably El Nashar's. He's one of the brains in the group (I believe a Ph.D.).

It reminds me just a bit of 9/11 in that it took little more than some box cutters and flight lessons to wreak unimaginable harm to many innnocents. I sometimes wonder if the reason why worse wasn't done is because the anti-terrorist efforts have (so far) kept the worst weapons out of their hands.

I don't know about you folks, but I'm impressed that so much has been discovered so quickly.

- Bill

[jorvik]

One of the big criticisms about tony blair and his government is the use of lies and spin to cover inefficiency . One of the main issue for some years has been illegal immigration, anybody can come to Britain and say that they are seeking Asylum and then live on benefits. Nothing is done to stop them entering the country or to force them to leave. Last year a secret service police officer was stabbed to death by an al-qaeda member who was an “Asylum seeker” from Morocco.
Muslim clerics, living here on benefits, are burning Union Jacks on street corners while exhorting young men to rise up and kill the English. When tony blair talks tough it means nothing, he does nothing and nothing will come out of this. We ,as “Good Europeans” have signed the human rights treaty. We would have to come out of this treaty which is hamstringing us and forcing us to take these people in, tony won’t do that …he has too many ambitions in Europe

[Mary S]

http://www.werenotafraid.com/



Tripled posted in error

*******

No problem, Mary. That's why they pay me the big bucks!

- Bill

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Mike & Jeff,

I think we can all agree that these are events (the terrible tragedy in London) that we despise (hate) and we are all eager to catch the perpetrators..........

Tony, the point of understanding terrorists isnt so we can sit down with ema and sing "coombayah",.....the point of understanding terrorists is to 1)catch them (for the express purposes of punishment), 2) to make attempts to limit their ability to recruit and carry out further atacks......

we all get carried away, myself included,m appreciate your patience in times of difficulty & despair for all of us.....I appreciate (jeff) your being a big (of heart) man and admitting that.......a lesser man wouldnt & couldnt




my biggest concern was that we were so busy fighting amongst ourselves, we hadnt been serious enough about reaching out to those who suffered form the Attacks in London......thanks guys (AND GALS)

Akil

[MikeK]

I think we can all agree that these are events (the terrible tragedy in London) that we despise (hate) and we are all eager to catch the perpetrators..........

Akil, let me tell you where I'm coming from. I am not at all filled with despair over 9/11 or Madrid or London. Pissed yes, despair no.
But here's something that really pisses me off: Taken all together the number of dead in those three nightmares pales in comparison to what those goat screwing murderers of women and children are doing in Iraq, but, there is no outrage over that. No jihad, no fatwah, no protest against those Muslims and Arabs who are gunning down, blowing up and beheading innocent Muslims and Arabs for whatever pointless reason they've settled on. What we do get is people getting their panties in a wad over prisoners moms being called names, having those prisoners humiliated and made uncomfortable. We also hear much criticism about the US, which is fine as it's a persons right to do so, but the fact that more Muslims are kept down by Islamic theocrats from Iran to SA to Sudan is ignored. Where is the outrage over that? This is something that has baffled me about Arab and Muslims for sometime. I can't wait for these people to become engaged in the pursuit of happiness.
Akil, I really hold no ill will to you or any other peace loving person who's just trying to make it through this world. I just wanted you to be clear on where I'm coming from.

Have a good one Akil.

edited by me as it came across more personel than I intended

[jorvik]

Mike
Turn that on it's head
"What we do get is people getting their panties in a wad over prisoners moms being called names, having those prisoners humiliated and made uncomfortable

would it be acceptable to do this to US troops, would you like to see a marine covered in Sch*tt, or a couple of Arabs laughing at dead US troops..........................point is, if we are better than them, then we shuld accept that there is right and wrong ( admittedly a lot of us do ).......but as an example in the last Gulf war, desert storm.somebody had written "Happy Ramadan" on a cruise missile......what we call "Squady Humour".....but not very entertaing to a Muslim, suppose you had a group of arabs who had wriiten " happy thanksgiving on a suicide carbomb.................at the end of the day it's double standards. Iraq probably didn't want American Democracy and Afghanistan certainly doesn't want it, put the foot on the other shoe.would you want to live in their kind of society
The point is that a pack of morons have led us into something that is turning out to be far worse than Vietnam..................I blame b.liar for the London bombing.only a fool pulls a tiger's tail.

[MikeK]

I have seen the bodies of Americans dragged though the steets of Mogadishu, burned and hung from bridges in Iraq and the head removed from a screaming American civilian. I've watched people dance in the streets after 3,000+ Americans were murdered. Turn that on it's head.

[jorvik]

Yeah
but somewhere somebody has to start saying....I did wrong.
The US has supported and supplied Israel with money and weapons to the tune of $600 billion every year ....that is foreign aid, and it is not a poor country. some muslims didn't like it and demonstrated that by flying a couple of planes into the World trade centre...I was shocked and horrifiied when this happened .....and had to ask Why did they do this?...which lead me to that answer $600 billion to Isreal

quote
burned and hung from bridges in Iraq and the head removed from a screaming American civilian.
who asked the US and the UK to go into Iraq??.nobody, they took it upon themselves.
I remember on this forum saying to Rich Casternet that a suicide bomber would walk into Mcdonald's......well I wasn't literally right ( at least not yet) but I got the science right
I said all this would happen.....and we will leave Iraq, but we will run from Iraq and we won't leave western style consumerism in our wake........and I don't think we'll get their oil..although China might ...................and the thing that upsets me most about the bombing in London is the stupidity of my Government and the security services..after 9/11 ( World trade) and Madrid ( train bombs) they couldn't put this together G8 Summit ( world trade) and train bombs...................I don't like being right....and as to being afraid, .............I am very afraid

[MikeK]

but somewhere somebody has to start saying....I did wrong.

And what happens then? The peace fairy comes and waves her wand and the world turns into rainbows and lollipops? Hey, if you think that you did wrong then admit it and see if anything changes.

Why did they do this?...which lead me to that answer $600 billion to Isreal

And we paid them back with a couple of billion in high tech ordinance. And why did we do it? Because they came here to hurt us. Talk about pulling the tigers tail. Sorry, but this isn't Spain.

[Bill Glasheen]

jorvik

I agree with you that we need always to try to be the better (wo)man. Along those lines, I'm happy to see the rule of law going about its course after the Abu Ghraib debacle.

I also agree that there can be HUGE double standards. It wears many faces. I see it when some people in this world find suicide bombing an acceptable form of warfare - as long as it isn't inflicted on THEIR people (see Views and Perceptions). What's up with more than 50% of Jordanians and Pakistanis supporting this? How strange that perceptions change where the practice comes home to roost.

But in all fairness... What must the average Iraqi think when approximately 200 innocent citizens come through the trauma center in Baghdad every day where they have minimal resources, and yet it's an international BFD when 4 bombs go off in London? Granted it's not a whole lot worse than what Saddam was doing to subjugate and terrorize a country into submission. But can't these folks get equal horror from us all when al Zarqawi and his sicko sociopaths charcoal their people for effect?

Where is the outrage, damnit???

Iraq probably didn't want American Democracy and Afghanistan certainly doesn't want it

Who's making an American Democracy, jorvik? Who wants to give them one? You?

To the extent that you are discounting their desire for self determination, the millions who risked their lives to vote make a liar out of you, jorvik.

The point is that a pack of morons have led us into something that is turning out to be far worse than Vietnam..................I blame b.liar for the London bombing.only a fool pulls a tiger's tail.

Careful, jorvik, your political views are showing!

- Bill

[Glenn]

Mike
I blame b.liar for the London bombing.only a fool pulls a tiger's tail.

And only a fool ignores the tiger who has made its intent to harm known. Isolationism did not work in the 1930s, there is no evidence it would work now.

[jorvik]

Quote
Careful, jorvik, your political views are showing!

Yeah, but you don't know my political views,You only know American political views...........tony b.liar is a "Socialist" .which means he is X 10 to the left of Bill Clinton, he is what we call in our country a "Champagne Socialist"..he likes to sit back and talk about "Social Justice" and the fight against Racism over a good bottle of Bolly, and he'll end up in a well paid job with dubya either on the board of Exon or selling GM crops with condolisa ( fking stupid name).or following his ugly wife around as she goes on "lecture tours"....I am to the Severe "Right" of our tony I believe in the right to bear arms etc, and many other American values, the right to defend your home,family and kids.I don't want my money frittered away on some nerdowell from Eastern Europe who has no right to be in my country and I want to live in England not some politically correct noman's land, a den of multi culturism.I want to remain English........and If other folks want to remain Arabic or whatever then it's fine with me.
Quote
And only a fool ignores the tiger who has made its intent to harm known. Isolationism did not work in the 1930s, there is no evidence it would work now.
Well if you hadn't given Israel $600 billion buck/dollars then you wouldn't have had 9/11............it's not isolation it is realising that your actions will have a direct consequence. The CIA have said that the world is a more dangerous place after the Iraq invasion, hell I knew that already.............mark my words unless there is a radical shift away from the way we are thinking toward the arab world this is only going to get worse