can anybody enlighten me on the "old way" of uechi

[brothermanontario]

I am new to the fourm. Iv'e been practicing Uechi since the early 90s. I had never heard of the old way of Uechi ryu and now the link to the uechi zankai is not working. Anyone got information they are willing to share?






Thanks Brothermanontario

[Bill Glasheen]

Welcome to the forums, sir! I've seen you lurking. Glad you wanted to participate.

I had never heard of the old way of Uechi ryu and now the link to the uechi zankai is not working.

There will be almost as many opinions on this as there are the individuals who will comment. Why?

As I see it, any "way" of "Uechi ryu" is a snapshot in time at a particular place in time. In my opinion...

* As much as people will tell you otherwise, everyone breathes their own life into "the style." The person makes the style, and not the other way around. We each bring unique attributes to the Platonic ideal of physical movement, and express those ideals in our own human ways.

* Just what do you mean by "Uechi Ryu?" What Kanbun saw in his journeys may or may not be exactly like what he practiced. And what he practiced may or may not have changed from when he first was taught until when he started teaching more than a few people back home. Before anyone other than Kanbun was practicing the three forms, conditioning, fighting exercises, and medicine, it was Kanbun's expression of material he was taught. It wasn't even called Uechi Ryu until later on.

What people mean when they say "Uechi Ryu" is actually a broader set of material that includes choreography added by Kanbun's son and other students.

Toyama Sensei tries his best to be true to what he was taught by Kanbun as a very young man. That is one very important snapshot in time, from an anthropologic point of view. Others can answer some of your questions directly, including Breyette Sensei who is one of the chief spokesmen for Toyama Sensei.

Tomoyose Ryuko Sensei is son to Kanbun's first student outside China, and has his own unique point of view.

Takamiyagi Sensei is an academic who wrote much of Uechi Kanei's Kyohon and understands Uechi in the broader context of Okinawan martial arts.

George Mattson was a pioneer, early student of the style, and studied from Tomoyose Sensei before there was much in the way of an official Uechi organization with official test requirements and such. He's seen quite a few changes through time.

And then we have folks like McCarthy Sensei who are experts on The Bubishi - a classic Chinese martial arts document that Kanbun allegedly had access to. This document describes the Habitual Acts of Physical Violence, and the standard responses. You can see much of the origins of Kanbun's style (and just about any traditional martial art) in the pictures of that work.

So... Just where do you want your time machine to go, sir?

Fasten your seatbelts!

- Bill

[brothermanontario]

Thank You for the correct reply Sensei, i worded my question wrongly.

I was just interested in the differences in training methods. Especially with regard to sanchin.My 1st Uechi teacher was very technically proficient but as ridgid as alead pipe, and not really very knowledgeable or intersted outside of uechi.

Their was only one correct way to do the style, his way, exactly no compromise, I felt like a robot, I went on my own after a couple of years and took Goju and then Chinese Kenpo, It was so different! I was not even shown a complete kata, just bit by bit till I had all the pieces and then I performed it when finished learning the parts.

I have always practiced uechi ryu and think of it as part of me.I have evoled in my kata, they are not mechanical they are flowing. I was just wondering how my evolution had come in relation to everyone else.

I was taught to do the kata full tension(sanchin) in uechi and I just wondered if everyone does it that stiff or are their other ways?

Thank you in advance.

[Bill Glasheen]

George, you REALLY should comment here.

Your journey is more typical than you know.

My 1st Uechi teacher was very technically proficient but as ridgid as alead pipe, and not really very knowledgeable or intersted outside of uechi.

Their was only one correct way to do the style, his way, exactly no compromise,

Consider that your teacher very likely was not a student of Uechi Kanbun, and probably not one of Uechi Kanei, Shinjo Seiyu, Takara Sensei, Tomoyose Sensei, Yonamine Sensei, etc... And if he was, I'm betting dollars to donuts that he didn't spend more than a few years on Okinawa. I have arguments with people on this one but... You can't learn very much Uechi in a few years. It's like fine wine; it takes time. Even ten years isn't enough time for you completely to appreciate what you have IMO, although I get all kinds of crapola from the peanut gallery for saying that.

Learning takes practice time. Learning takes teacher time. Learning takes training time. And learning takes "time in grade", like fine wine.

So were you getting the complete package from this teacher, or this human's best understanding of the style at that point in time? And did this teacher have any perspective on the style vis-a-vis other styles? Did he understand The Bubishi and the habitual acts of physical violence? Did he understand the physiology and psychology of the survival stress response? Did he appreciate the anthropology and history involved? Did he understand where the style ended and culture began? IF he did, then he's gotta be some kind of superhuman.

Most of us put our pants on one leg at a time.

I went on my own after a couple of years and took Goju and then Chinese Kenpo, It was so different! I was not even shown a complete kata, just bit by bit till I had all the pieces and then I performed it when finished learning the parts.

Yep... That's the way Kanbun taught. Bet you didn't know that...

I have always practiced uechi ryu and think of it as part of me.I have evoled in my kata, they are not mechanical they are flowing. I was just wondering how my evolution had come in relation to everyone else.

If you were my student, I couldn't ask more of you. Your path so far sounds great to me! Sure, you could probably use some major tweaking here and there. But... So far so good.

I was taught to do the kata full tension(sanchin) in uechi and I just wondered if everyone does it that stiff or are their other ways?

Yep... This is part of what made me date your teacher's practice. Stuff like this was done in the 1960s. It borrowed from some of Miyagi's ideas about Sanchin. Nothing wrong with that... But you know, we have gyms these days for building bodies. You don't really need to do that, except maybe to warm up.

To some extent, dynamic tension Sanchin can take away from you learning how to use your whole body in your movements. I have a nidan in Goju, and have done this. I still do it now and then to warm my shoulders up (since I'm constantly taxing them in the weight room, and they need time to warm up on karate days). But that's it... Warmup with tension for Uechi Sanchin is fine. But actual practice of the thrusts, steping, turning, circles, and postures should be done with the right mix of tension and relaxation. Yin must be yin and yang must be yang. There's no gray in the yin/yang symbol, is there?

By all means ask questions.

And by all means, others can chime in.

- Bill

[Stryke]

http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=12141

lots of different Sanchins


http://www.wilsonkarate.com/videos/rick ... h_2005.wmv

And see above for flowing IMHO

[maxwell ainley]

The old way is first of all a process that starts with a three years sanchin ,now if you have done that part ,you will be close to kanbun at that point provided you have put 5 to 6 hrs per day in to it or more ,anything else introduced during that specific training period flaws the process as not being the old way

max

[Guest]

I suggest that you seek out some Uechi videos and view Toyama doing SanSeiRyu. Then you can evaluate what you see. He has visited the US one time and there is a video of the Golden Gate expo ... I think that's what it's called. I think it was about 1994 and was put out by Alan Dollar for his Kenyukai.

In Vol. III of Sensei Dollar's training tapes there is also a presentation of Master Toyama doing SanSeiRyu.

A study of the tape will give you a first hand presentation of what "old style" looks like, not only in the component techniques of the kata but also in the state and condition of Master Toyama's body as he is performing the kata. You will also gain some sense of the emotional intensity with which he demonstrates.

It's a marvel to see him jump into the vertical elbow strike.

[brothermanontario]

I wish ot thank everyone who took the time for to reply to my question. Your all very kind.

[Spitkicker]

I just returned from training under the Zankai. wow.

[Van Canna]

Hi Scott,

Very nice and congratulations. Toyama sensei and Breyette sensei are wonderful hosts.

One thing to repeat here is the fact that when some people read about the ‘old style’ _ they feel ‘dissed’ _ bemused and anxious/threatened.

what do you mean the ‘old style’ ? what do you think we are practicing?

This is in spite of the fact everybody knows Uechi became modernized at a point in time for various reasons I won’t get into.

I will repeat that it is not, and never was the intention of Toyama sensei, or Breyette sensei to give the impression that what they teach is better or superior to the modernized style, just DIFFERENT_

I hope this is understood, and people do not nurture animosities towards the Zankai group, as some people are and will.

[Spitkicker]

Well said, and thanks!

[CANDANeh]

Scott

Good to see your travel back to Nova Scotia is so rewarding, I was hoping you would meet with the Zankai group for your benifit as well as future students of yours.

I hope this is understood, and people do not nurture animosities towards the Zankai group, as some people are and will.

fortunately I know of none personally who are but yes I can understand how it can happen. The Zankai group and Breyette sensei in particular does such a great job of not creating an environment for this to occur. I was fortunate in having correspondance (only a few and his words always kind) in past with Breyette sensei and never once did he portray himself as better than anyone or his "old style" as something better. They deserve our respect as "we" are respected by "them". No threat exist

[Spitkicker]

Still in Korea I'm afraid....but plans are in the works to get out soon enough, PM me if you have the time.

[Guest]

http://web.archive.org/web/200407110806 ... etters.htm

You may be able to access the Zankai Newsletters and other Zankai materials in the archives of the the above address.

[brothermanontario]

Thanks John the link worked great!