Chinna soft skills video

[jorvik]

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"Wasn't talking about the vid was talking about rolling/sticking as a training platform"

Well I packed in the WC early on this year, mainly because it was too mixed in with other stuff..it was more how my friend viewed MA training.I just wanted the pure stuff ...in Tai-chi we don't do pushing hands we do "Centering" which is a kinda static pushing hands. With TC when you make contact you are supposed to stick and go with your opponent, so you have the hand then maybe you attack the elbow and then the shoulder..you wouldn't jump from the hand to the shoulder because you would lose contact...........and it is very similar to Aiki although more complete

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Well, it aint' me, thats for sure. I boxed three rounds tonight and had my head handed to me, not to mention piss-poor endurance. *UGH*

It is a reality check though isn't it ....I've gone full contact a few times although not recently, it's not something that I like to do on a constant basis, I did it once with an amateur champ and that was very enlightening ..but most folks won't have had that experience, or realise just what danger you can be in

[Dana Sheets]

Just for context - the video was posted because someone asked to see a variety of examples of soft chinna. It wasn't made to show "reality" chinna. So the video was meant to be a demo/teaching tool for folks who want to try to do stuff like that.

[JimHawkins]

alledgedly he pooped his pants when he faced "Judo Gene Le Belle"....alledgedly

My understanding was that Seagal had been repeatedly dissing Judo to Gene's face telling him how superior Aikido was. Seagal then told Gene that he would let him put a choke on him and that he would easily escape... Once Gene got the choke on Seagal could not escape and after having been repeatedly insulted Gene must have had enough and promply put Seagal into a deep sleep at which time Seagal purportedly peed himself..

Bruce thought he was immune also, and he too fell victim to Gene when on one occasion he sat on Bruce... Bruce found himself unable to escape from the "sitting pin" and according to Ed Parker Bruce was totally humiliated and never quite got over this... It is thought, however, that this incident spurred Bruce's major addition and inclusion of grappling into his mix.

[jorvik]

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"Just for context - the video was posted because someone asked to see a variety of examples of soft chinna."
Well I don't know if that qualifies as Chi-na ( finally got it to work)...........Chi-na is joint locking, throwing techniques are not Chi-na, and chi na is not a seperate style in itself. Quite nice stuff though
the Tai-Chi Chi na is "soft" because of the way it is used and really it is no different to Shaoilin or hard chi na, it's just that it is applied gently, sneekily

Jim
I think that Gene La Belle is a legend, for some of the things that he has done...wonder what he is up to now, or how old he is?

[Dana Sheets]

My understanding is that many times a throw is a natural continuation of the application of a chinna technique. Many people will nearly throw themselves to escape the pain if you apply things with any level of sure intent. So in this case the chinna is used after the bridge or along with an impact to setup a balance displacement. That seems like a logical progression to me.

[jorvik]

Dana
Dr.Yang in his book Tai chi chuan ( martial applications).says that TC is made up of three components 1) shuai jiao, downing the enemy 2) Chin Na 3) Dian Xue (Cavity strike)...............I think a lot of that stuff was Shuai Jiao......I'm not knocking it ( ............just being pedantic )

[JimHawkins]

It's true that it all fits together despite different names. I've read some great articles from Yang and I seem to recall him using different terms for striking, throwing, trapping, locking, etc.

He often writes about the importance of energy issuing and balance stealing in CMA, concepts and tactics, which is not limited to any one of the above but used by all...

A lot of which is used will depend on how the opponent resists, you attack first, he resists with his body and you use what he does or fails to do. Just as in ground fighting, the submission one uses will mainly depend on how the opponent resists and what he 'gives' you.

Again the key IMO to getting most of this stuff to work is working off the clash... If folks don't clash and don't have sensitivity trained in with the techniques then you can't feel the opponent give them to you and then they usually won't 'work' because you miss the timing and flow of the opportunity..

[Sochin]

In sd situations, it is not the speed that we have the most to worry about...we all train at fightng speed.

What brings down the dojo trained is the not knowing what is going to come, the unexpected qualities of unchoreographed hostility plus our lack of motor skill due to adrenaline.

This guy looks like every aikido, systema, chinna demo I've seen except he leans off balance to get a move and reaches deep to get a move, both, I believe, are no-no's.

[jorvik]

I think that this epitimises Martial arts..........people train soft and pretty, not too much pain and it has to look nice ......Folks who have medals for kata competitions think that they can train fighters how to fight .............and we see it in a lot of the Aiki type of stuff, which is why I always give it a big ole knock ..and of course folks who have never done it get taken in
"Truth will out".....but not on a wet street past midnight with knives and vicious intent when your Aiki technique can be tested to the full, and all those pretty jumps and breakfalls that folks did for you become kinda meaningless..in fact you kinda wished they hadn't jumped for you .......and if they hadn't you would have seen how cr*p you were at fighting and learned something different...but now you have to be judged severely ..life ***** for those who don't learn or listen

[benzocaine]

in fact you kinda wished they hadn't jumped for you .......and if they hadn't you would have seen how cr*p you were at fighting and learned something different...but now you have to be judged severely

Do you know anyone who this has happened to Jorvik? You could probably get the same storys from some Uechi people, Juijitsu folks.. what ever. We are all vulnerable.

[Rick Wilson]

Qinna can include throws it just depends on the brand and the “brand” us usually just part of a martial style.

Tim Cartmell’s Qinna includes throws as does John Painter’s. Mr. Painter’s Qinna comes from the body guard perspective of his Bagua style which means you do not lock and hold but break and toss.

The clip (as Danna says) is just a demo of techniques and not a demo of Qinna in “action.”

It is good stuff, certainly areas one might critic but the clip is a good demo all the same.

[benzocaine]

but not on a wet street past midnight with knives and vicious intent when your Aiki technique can be tested to the full, and all those pretty jumps and breakfalls that folks did for you become kinda meaningless..i

Why the hell would I be on a wet street past midnight?... OK there's a couple of bars down the street

Like I said though any style's practitioner could run into this. I have six years in Uechi.. ya think I'll throw a shoken to a guys solar plexus while his buddys suround me?

At least Aiki trains the concept of multiple oponents. Yea yea.. I hear you now Jorvik "those wrist locks and throws won't be done on willing partners but on resisting muggers.. and that's different... boxers are the ones who will prevail"..or something like that.

Just remember there are rules in the ring, and boxers spar.

[JimHawkins]

Since Jorvik is away on vacation I'll respond.

Just remember there are rules in the ring, and boxers spar.

This is the very reason that decent Boxers are so dangerous... They work their stuff against not merely resisting opponents but opponents who are attacking with the intent to hurt them.

Point is whether or not something works against an opponent or opponents that are full out trying to rip your face off.. That means whatever it is you are going to do it had better work well, and work in the blink of an eye...

When Aiki and other styles start training as hard as Boxers, well then I'm sure all the criticisms will cease...

[jorvik]

Thanks jim, I'm back now fully refreshed and ready to take on the world
and you've just about expressed my feelings on the subject

Ben
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"At least Aiki trains the concept of multiple oponents. Yea yea.. I hear you now Jorvik "those wrist locks and throws won't be done on willing partners but on resisting muggers.. and that's different... boxers are the ones who will prevail"..or something like that."

aikido is a new toy for you...but it is a very old toy for me, it was broken when I got it, and I can fix it .but I won't call it aikido...wait until you hear some of the B*llschitt in aiki...................extending your ki ..becoming one with the Universe ( yadda yadda yadda)....and then you can see people "Jumping" when you throw them.........and if you like you can pretend that you are actually throwing them.there are lots of aiki blackbelts who do
As Jim says a boxer is pretty close to reality......Judo comes close also and wrestling as well. Why don't you ask your aikido teacher, very politely of course, if you can attack him full force with punches .like a boxer does.......................I'll use my psychic powers to tell you what he'll say
aikido is none competative or a way of not fighting, or it is too dangerous and he may hurt you
Either way I don't think that he'll put himself on the line................but a boxer would and so would a thai boxer or a wrestler...so if we believe that spirituality is based on truth..we can say that not only is aikido ineffective it is also not spiritual ........................by the way why not take a couple of guys with you and see how good the aiki dude is against multiple attackers

[Guest]

I took Aiki Jitsu for a few months and found it to be pretty cool but the attacks where not realistic. It was like the Uechi Kumite #3 attacks.