GEM's Oct. 31 Thoughts (Home Page)

[John Giacoletti]

Why does Johns post now say Guest ?

has he been moderated , or has he self destructed ?
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Hey Stryke and others ... very interesting experiences. Moderated .... hummmm?

Why does Johns post now say Guest ?

has he been moderated , or has he self destructed ?
_________________

Someone with administrative authorization, not GEM and not me, deleted my user name and account so that all my posts reverted to a default "Guest."

I wasn't able to log on since my user name and password no longer existed. So much for the level playing field.

As to Tosh and the parking meter. I allow that some exaggeration may have crept into the account just as some exaggeration may have crept into the accounts of Takamyiagi's brutal testings. MY point was "And they turned and ran." Being able to kick the parking meter several times with his shins was Tosh's display of his strength and conditioning and was enough to deter a fight. The supreme goal is to "win without fighting."

The posts about David Finkerstein and the others standing in and taking Takamyiagi's assults represent the best of conditioning. " Give me your best shot brother! Is that all you got?" It's a way of winning by demonstrating a superior defense, by sucking the wind out of somebody's sails, by exhausting and wasting their motivation and confidence. It's like the citizens in Derry in Northern Ireland holding off the French seige in the 1790's.

slainte

john

[Stryke]

As to Tosh and the parking meter. I allow that some exaggeration may have crept into the account just as some exaggeration may have crept into the accounts of Takamyiagi's brutal testings. MY point was "And they turned and ran." Being able to kick the parking meter several times with his shins was Tosh's display of his strength and conditioning and was enough to deter a fight. The supreme goal is to "win without fighting."

Yeah that was my take on it John , Exageration is pretty common in martial arts tales .

Very cool story .

I didnt think you`d be bullied off , th forums are another form of conditioning

[John Giacoletti]

I went over some of the issues of Takamiyagi's hazing and/or testing with my employer, an attorney.

Takamiyagi would have been an agent of the school, organization or individual who invited him and they would bear the responsibility for any injury sustained by a student.

Takamiyagi is what he is and did what he did and whoever brought him into the dojo or testing facility knew or should have known of his behavior. If candidates were not properply prepared for the level of testing T. was known to administer T. and the students should have been advised of the situation prior to the test by the school owner or organization representative.

Similarly, and as was mentioned, the student has an assumed responsibility of injury in participating in martial arts activities. If he he didn't want T. to test him he should have stood aside or tapped out, particularly if he was injured. Maybe T. exceeded what a reasonable level of impact would be. That's what a judge would decide, if the injury was the result of an accident or intentional. An account like Fred presented that he was tested by T. on numerous occassions without injury would bear considerable weight with a judge as to his conduct not being excessive for an experienced and well-prepared candidate.

In our school the Sensei presenting the candidate tests the candidate particularly if there are special circumstances. We had a young woman who was a dwarf and eventually made Nidan who was always tested by Martin Sensei in front of Shinjo and Nakamatsu as it would be disrespectful to the Okinawayn masters to be placed in an uncomfortable situation. Another part of the "code" is that if a candidate wants to be tested particulalry vigorously, it is also the responsibility of the student's sensei to administer the test, thereby not placing the guests in an uncomfortable position.

It's always unfortunate when a student is injured and the Sensei in charge must be watchful in a potentially dangerous situation.

[Rick Wilson]

“Laird ... why the hell don't you spell his name right and show him some respect? Note my quote of your words

Typos, miskeyings, mistakes ... don't give me the BS excuses. You are responsible for what you write and how you write and you just aren't careful about how you read something and how you respond.

I think you owe Mattson Sensei an apology. Quit worrying about how I show respect and show it yourself by at least using a Hachidan's correct name.”


Ah, come on John stop trying so hard. All the Bad Bully Boy spots are taken, besides you’re one of George’s favourites. (Besides you’re just not that good at it. But maybe with practice, then some day….)

[Guest]

[Rick Wilson]

You Bad Bully Boy you.

[Guest]

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/taunt.wav

[Guest]

My bad!

[Guest]

It's always unfortunate when a student is injured and the Sensei in charge must be watchful in a potentially dangerous situation.

Yeah sure.. blame it on Sensei. If a foreigner steps foot on US soil and commences to abusing my countrymen and women, that foreigner will have hell to pay as far as i'm concerned.

[Bill Glasheen]

John and Laird

Please don't break any furniture while you sort things out. I just redecorated, for Christ's sake! Do you realize how much I paid for that Feng Shui consultant?

- Bill

[Guest]

[Van Canna]

Interesting point about potential liability for damages by the organiztion/dojo/sensei hosting Mr T _ with a well known propensity to abuse and injure students intentionally, such as blowing off knee caps and breaking fingers or bruising kidneys.

On the liability end of it, we must realize that each state is different. For example in Mass. There is no ‘assumption of risk’ defense_ rather _ exposure is measured in terms of ‘comparative negligence’ _

But the discussion misses a very important point, liability insurance _ COVERAGE _ which may or may not be available to the insured and his agent.



A policy provides coverage for damages for which the insured may become legally liable because of a "bodily injury" caused by an "occurrence."

The policy defined occurrence as an "accident.The policy excludes coverage for injuries "expected or intended from the standpoint of the insured."

Knowing T’s propensity for dangerous ‘testing’ _ the organization/dojo/sensei_ may well be charged with ‘expected or intended’ behavior as he allows his ‘agent’ Mr. T _ to beat on his students.


Based on the frequency of previous such incidents by Mr. T _ a trier of facts might well find ‘intent’ to injure, along with ‘gross negligence’- On the part of the insured[dojo] for allowing such ‘testing’ _ This will adversely affect insurance coverage under reservation of rights.



The interesting _ Damn Fool” doctrine refers to that body of cases where courts have refused insurance coverage for acts “too ill conceived to warrant allowing the actor to transfer the risk of such conduct to an insurer.”



Intent to injure can be inferred from the nature of the act and the foreseeability of harm flowing naturally from that act.

So the organization/dojo/sensei will be ‘liable’ to the injured student, but will have no coverage for defense or indemnity by the dojo liability policy.

In addition, a jury might find the dojo liability so egregious that it might award ‘punitive damages’_

And there may be a case for criminal action based on ‘assault and battery’ _

[Guest]

And there may be a case for criminal action based on ‘assault and battery’ _

If so, we must ensure that the "abuser" does not get on a plane back to Okinawa, but rather tie him up until the authorities can pick him up and serve American Justice.

While he's tied up and waiting to be picked up, we might want to have a little fun with the "Spice Bottle"...

[gmattson]

Anyone allowing their students to be "tested" by someone who has a reputation for "extreme" type abusive behavior to students he may have just met or to whom he has no information regarding medical background, is accepting an invitation for legal disaster.

We have been lucky in the past, but eventually a student, after being out of work for a month, or with serious long-term aftereffects of a Mr. T (or wannabe instructor) workover, will find themselves in court. They will have a hard time proving to a jury or judge that such a pounding is good for building character and Americans (especially) "need to be beat upon" as a defense.

I agree with all the old masters from Okinawa, that a student will benefit (gain confidence) from their teacher "checking" balance, belly strength (without having the student "lock-up") and shoulder/lat strength, but completely discount any benefit from having a senior shoot full contact blows to a student's body.

Sorry Mr. "T", but thats the way I see it.

[Bill Glasheen]

This isn't just a US thing. A recent visit of a "famous master" to Germany showed long lines for Sanchin testing on the first day. The second day, the line for the guest instructor was shorter. The third day, it was miniscule.

Hmm...

The sokusen kicks to the backs of the legs were particularly "unappreciated." What's up with that? Can anyone tell me what you learn by standing still and allowing someone to do sokusen shots to the backs of your legs?

Having been there, let me tell you that our Germany Uechi bretheren aren't slackers. They routinely wait twice as long as "normal" before testing, and they are just plain bloody big. I still remember my visits to a German weight club. Damn, but those machines had some serious weight on them...

Food for thought.

- Bill