We Have Not Lost This War… Yet

[Stryke]

Success has to be self determination and a system strong enough to manage it and avoid civil war .

anything else is a failure , and US involvement would be a waste of lives .

If we say it`s always been in turmoil and accept that as acceptable , then were conceding defeat in the nation building excercise .

Success could also be defined as finding and eliminating weapons of mass destruction .... But i`m not holding my breath on that one .

One sucessis getting rid of Saddam , but that doesnt explain why the continued presence , so the agenda is obviously for bigger objectives ie nation building .

[-Metablade-]

I say,
Let's just quit pussyfooting around the issue:

Declare America for the Empire that it is, and make GWB the first Emperor of the world.

[Bill Glasheen]

One sucessis getting rid of Saddam , but that doesnt explain why the continued presence , so the agenda is obviously for bigger objectives ie nation building .

Excellent point, Marcus. And this is one of the Bush "screw ups."

Sun Tzu said: In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment or a company entire than to destroy them.

- The Art of War

It was a great victory to destroy and disband the Baathist military of Saddam. But the problem is, nature abhors a vacuum. Where there is a vacuum and chaos, evil flourishes. And with the ethnic and religious tensions already brewing, the loss of a native standing army partially led to the internal/external insurgency we see today.

One might conclude that a better approach (which could have saved more lives) would have been to allow the Baathists to stay in the military. These Baathists are predominantly Sunnis, and there is way too much nepotism. A plan of gradual integration with the Kurds and the Shia might have worked, and led to less violence.

But the generals and/or the prez and/or Rummy wanted to purge the military and start from scratch. It was too evil to work with. Fine... But now you have a power vacuum, and so now you are flat-assed stuck until you build that military back up. And it's going to take at least a decade to get it to maturity. At LEAST a decade. It's going to take time and experience to work up through the ranks, and create the next generation of generals and colonels.

So we are stuck. We will be able to leave, but slowly. And the longer we are there, the more we irritate the locals. It's understandable.

But we did what we did. Time to ****** it up and finish the job. I shudder to think what evil will fill the vacuum if we leave too soon.

Bill

[-Metablade-]

I shudder to think what evil will fill the vacuum if we leave too soon.
Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

[-Metablade-]

I like that kid to the left...

(He's thinking...)

*...yeah yeah..yeah...America is #1...thumbs up.....now pose for the camera...
...look at Mohammad..how he ***** up to these foreign devils..I shall make a full report to the muhajadin and then they will strap me with Holy bombs that I may unleash the full fury of our God's vengeance upon these dogs!...

..And I wonder when's this capitalist infidel pig's going to give me my F#&*ING Chocolate bar?

I hope I have time before my glorious accent to paradise to catch "El habib Ala Party of Five" on Al Jazera..

....And why am I wearing a soccer outfit?
For Allah's sake! There isn't a green grass field within a thousand miles!

[benzocaine]