What is BJJ exactly?

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:31 pm

But isn't all this 'built into Uechi'? Like it will come out of mushin?

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:09 pm

-Metablade- wrote:From the videos I have watched, almost all of the participants appear to be young and highly athletic.

I wonder if the techniques are such that the art can be practiced with effectiveness in one's old age?

My Sensei once told me, (Who is quite formidable at 83,) "If an art requires mainly physical strength and power to be effective, then it is will serve a person well when they are young, however the art will gradually loosen it's effectiveness as one becomes aged."

I am not attempting to say that this is the case with BJJ at all, simply I am looking for some understanding.

There's plenty of older guys who do it too...they just don't get as much visibility. BJJ has a large competition scene, and many BJJ guys also fight MMA, so there's quite a bit to attract the young, athletic guys.

BUT...

The art is very technical, and a far cry from being based mainly on physical strength and power.

If you can, check out some of the original UFC's. Royce Grace fought a number of larger, stronger, opponents, and beat them all with good technique.

Helio Gracie is somewhere into his 80's, I believe, and is by all accounts, still a force on the mat.

wes tasker · Post by **wes tasker** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:14 pm

Helio Gracie is actually 92 years old, he'll be 93 in October. He still trains every day as well as teaches.

-wes tasker

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:29 pm

My Sensei once told me, (Who is quite formidable at 83,) "If an art requires mainly physical strength and power to be effective, then it is will serve a person well when they are young, however the art will gradually loosen it's effectiveness as one becomes aged."

this is true of any art , the tricks to increase your skil level to compensate for age , age will always affect your ability .

I see this comment largely true of karate in the way it`s mostly practiced .

Of course it`s a physical art , but fightings a physical act , but it trains with using minimal effort .

you cant tell me someone who beats a person out weighing them by 100 pounds is relying on force to win .

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:22 pm

BJJ kicks ass.
REmember though:

BJJ may be badass, but it isn't the ultamite ground fighting art. Other arts look at the ground, though some dont focus on it as much as BJJ.

Kimura: a judo fighter beat Helio using a....kimura. Helio REFUSED to tap out, so kimura broke his arm using a...kimura.
Gotta give that old man some props! Would rather get his arm broken then submit!

Sakuraba(known to be very innovative and goofy, he plays little tricks IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH and does all sorts of strange crazy stunts in the midle of the fight that usually screw him over, why he is called innovative i dont know however, but i know he is goofy)Sakuraba is a judo and shootwrestler who is about the same size as Royce , beat Royce Gracie, Renzo Gracie , Royler and i THINK MAYBE Rickson Gracie. And he WASN'T a dick about it!

Yoshida, a judo fighter dominated Royce Gracie in a judo match(And despite what japan and PRIDE may claim, he did NOT choke out Royce Gracie, if you look at alternative footage, Royce relaxed his body doing this wierd faker thingy, but there was no choke. ROyce said that much.
None the less, he owned Royce.)

I would put in Genki Sudo, but he used BJJ to beat the gracies, so it essentially proves nothing other then the fact that the gracies no longer control BJJ.

ALL THAT SAID:
Kimura: Was SLIGHTLY bigger then Helio and ten years younger then the 40 year old.
Sakuraba: was beated by Silva two times, a guy who used BJJ to keep sakuraba standing up and then pounded him.
Yoshida: is an olympic level Judoka probably did not step in the MMA arena from what i know, so he probably would get clobbered by ROyce in that setting.
Genki Sudo: Well, he uses BJJ as his main style essentially so.....

My point? Judo CAN be just as good as BJJ on the ground(though since MOST SCHOOLS, dont put focus on the ground, BJJ usually wins out over there.) BJJ can trace it's roots back to Judo. Infact, some even claim that BJJ is what Judo is supposed to look like before the olympics made throws the main focus.

Oh and another point of this post was to just post those results. You will be surprised to know just how many people arn't aware of Judo being succesful once agian in the grappling world.

P.s. i like BJJ better then judo, since all my grappling experience is from Rick teaching me basic BJJ.

But there are other arts that use the ground.

Infact, i think there are more Judo Mc-Dojos then there are BJJ mc-dojos.

EDIT: I just watched a Royce vs sakuraba highlight video agian, and i noticed....Helio is SMILING during the fight? His sone was getting owned and he was SMILING?

Somoene PLEASE explain that...........

Joe B · Post by **Joe B** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:30 pm

Here's a good link on the history of BJJ from Tim Cartmell's website.

good training,
Joe

http://www.shenwu.com/bjjHistory.html

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:47 pm

Ha...wait..that's a sport, not fighting for real like we would

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:21 pm

I heard the psychological pressure in the ring is the same as the street.

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:44 pm

Actually as mentioned in a recent Black Belt article, and I agree, going against an experienced fighter in the ring is probably going to be a lot tougher, mentally and physically than going against the average John Q. Punk in the street. This is of course why the punk will try his best not to play fair if at all possible and use all kinds of nasty tricks to even up the odds - which is why the 'good' guy must also.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:49 pm

This is of course why the punk will try his best not to play fair if at all possible and use all kinds of nasty tricks to even up the odds - which is why the 'good' guy must also.

I seriously think grapplers are the masters of dirty tricks , they know just what to do to elicit a pain response , and theyve had it done to themselves a hundred times .

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:06 am

yeah i agree.

Ive heard countless times: "Oh yeah? If somone got me in the gaurd/mount/triangle choke/armbar/kimura

"Ill poke him in the eye!"

Really? Your hand goes close to his eye and SNAP!

Plus, cant the guy in the mount poke your eyes too?

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:56 am

Ah well there's tricks and then there's tricks..

Razor blade hidden in the mouth anyone?

-Metablade- · Post by **-Metablade-** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:43 pm

Ok, so what about Multiple opponents?

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:37 pm

I heard the psychological pressure in the ring is the same as the street.

How do we define 'psychological pressure'?

In the ring you and the primal brain know it is likely you won't be killed, and you can always 'tap out'_

In the street there are no such guarantees.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:43 pm

-Metablade- wrote:Ok, so what about Multiple opponents?

Good question, Meta. Usually this doesn't get much class or 'cyber' time.

Something in the Globe yeserday about an altercation outside a club, over a girl, with one person stabbed many times while being held, and the guy holding getting two fingers cut off.

Real fights never match our dojo fantasies.