Good lord!

[Mary S]

If you don't escalate the situation are you always going to be a step behind?

I'm certainly not advocating going out and having a "spree" but if your intent is to stop the bad situation I think you have to take the lead sometimes.

Is escalation necessary in certain situations?


David I LOVE your quote - make distance or make friends!!!

[Glenn]

I suppose it depends on how you interprete escalation. My teachers and I use it in relation to raising the level of violence. If you escalate the level of violence beyond what is needed to control a situation or protect yourself, then it is no longer self-defense and you are probably going to be in for legal ramifications. An example would be if someone is being verbally aggressive with you and you strike him without there being a physical threat first.

Being able to control or diffuse the situation without having to take it to the next level yourself is better for everyone involved.

Where it gets tricky is what counts as escalation, particularly in the eyes of the law. If you are 5'5" 100lbs and a 7' 300lb person has you cornered and is intent on doing damage to you with his bare hands, shooting him is not necessarily an escalation.

[RACastanet]

Mary: You are under no obligation to be beaten or shot or knifed before you escalate to a level necessary to save innocent human life, be it yours or a family member etc. Being a female and/or a mother with children in proximity gives great latitude in the level of force you may use to stop a threat of death or grievous bodily harm.

For instance, a shod foot is considered a lethal weapon in most states, and kicking someone in the head when they are down could be seen as gratuitous violence. Say however, that you had a young child with you and fleeing was just not possible. This would create the need to end the threat by whatever means necessary.

In states like Virginia an innocent person has no duty to retreat from a threat, even though that is usually the best choice. So, you can stand your ground here. That position is gaining favor in the US and states like Florida are putting it in clearly written state law. There are states where there is a duty to retreat. There are countries, like Great Britain where self defense will get you thrown in jail. Just be sure to understand the laws of your land.

Rich

[RACastanet]

More...

In Virginia it is not necessary to see the tool of your demise before you act. If someone threatens your life and then reaches inside their jacket you may act.

Glenn is correct in that the level of force must be in rough propprtion to the threat, and once the threat is over you must break off as well.

But again, there is preponderance of force. If a 250 pound man is beating on you, even if unarmed, a reasonable person could assume they were going to experience grievous bodily harm and you may escalate to prevent that from hapening.

Rich

[Glenn]

Glenn is correct in that the level of force must be in rough propprtion to the threat, and once the threat is over you must break off as well.

But again, there is preponderance of force. If a 250 pound man is beating on you, even if unarmed, a reasonable person could assume they were going to experience grievous bodily harm and you may escalate to prevent that from hapening.

Rich

Absolutely! Actually I was editing my post while you were entering yours, and added pretty much the same clause. Although this may not be an escalation as the level of violence may be the same just with different methods (for example one unarmed one armed as in my example above).

Where this all really gets difficult is being able to instantly recognize the level you need to use to deal with the situation before you find yourself the loser. And as Rich said earlier, you have to be able to recognize when the level of force required has changed and adapt accordingly.

[RACastanet]

Good discussion.

I work part time for a security company and several times a month I teach a Concealed Handgun Pemit course. I spend an hour on the Force Continuum. The last thing I want someone to do is go to deadly force so we spend a lot of time discussing the subject.

Also, with so many people in the classes I get many good questions and a lot of personal anecdotes. With the recent mass murder in Richmond the demand for permits and info has more than doubled as have 'personal' stories related to the class! Every class I hear something new and interesting regarding self defense scenarios.

Rich

[Glenn]

Chuck Norris, in I believe his 1988 autobiography Secret of Inner Strength, described being used as an expert witness in a case where an attacker was coming at the defender with apparent intent to do harm (something about the attacker catching the defender in bed with his wife). The defender knew the attacker to be a black belt and assumed he was in danger, and pulled out a gun and killed the attacker. At issue of course was whether the defender used excessive force. Norris described demonstrating his speed and power, as another black belt, at the trial and the defender was aquited. The jury apparently did not see the gun as an escalation in that case.

[Sochin]

So, the big question - how are you going to stop him if he's intent on ripping you to shreds? Got a plan??????

In the dark.

From behind.

From a distance.

(Thanks doc!)