Bullseye

[RACastanet]

Yes, you should know where everyone is in your party but you don't always know who else is out in the woods. That is why most hunting accidents occur. But again, I have seen people who should know better put themselves at extreme risk. Sometimes the mind wanders.

Not all hunting seasons require blaze orange. The highest incidence of hunters being shot occurs during turkey season. Hunters do their best to be invisible and at the same time are making really accurate 'turkey in heat' noises. The latest generation of 'treebark' pattern cammies makes hunters invisible. It is so good it is scary. It also puts the hunter at risk.

Ben: Can you weigh in on this?

Rich

[RACastanet]

Let's get real here.

Good point Ben.

Now, this on hunter safety:

Feb. 13, 2006, 12:05AM
Hunting-related accidents rare, state data show
29 incidents were reported in 2004, which had the lowest rate on record in Texas


By DOUG PIKE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Media feathers flew after the South Texas quail-hunting accident that involved Vice President Dick Cheney on Saturday, but such incidents are rare, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department records show.

In 2004, Texas' 1 million-plus hunters were involved in 29 hunting-related accidents, four of which were fatal.

The overall accident rate, 2.7 per 100,000 licenses sold, is the lowest since TPWD began keeping accident records in 1966, when the rate was 12.6. From 1999 to 2003, the accident rate was 4.02 per 100,000 licenses.

The incident involving Cheney occurred at a South Texas ranch where the vice president and two companions were quail hunting. Cheney accidentally shot Austin lawyer Harry Whittington in the cheek, neck and chest after Whittington went to look in tall grass for a bird he had shot.

Statistically in Texas, shotgunners tend to be involved in the most hunting accidents — 19 of the 29, or 65 percent, in 2004.

That's because they typically are hunting in close proximity to others and shooting at low-flying, fast-moving targets. Their shotshells contain an average of 250-300 pellets (each barely the size of a pinhead for quail or dives) that scatter in an expanding, cone-shaped path after leaving the barrel.

Dove hunting resulted in more accidents than quail hunting this past year by more than a 3-to-1 margin.

Although Texas doesn't require them to do so, most quail hunters wear bright orange clothing to make themselves more visible.

Cheney and his two hunting companions all were wearing the orange vests when the accident occurred Saturday. Dove hunters, conversely, tend to wear camouflage or drab-colored clothing. Most bird-hunting accidents occur because the gunner swung on a dove or quail that was not in a safe firing zone.

Alcohol was a factor in only two of the 101 total hunting accidents reported during the past three years, TPWD records show.

Because these types of events are classified as "accidents," said John Rao, TPWD game warden, no charges are filed.

"The media may want to turn this (incident with Vice President Cheney) into something, but the fact remains that hunting is an extremely safe sport," said Slaton White, editor of SHOT Business magazine and a lifelong hunter.

Here is the link:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 54597.html

[-Metablade-]

I got a bird for old eagle-eye to shoot

I really think you want to be careful what you post. There are laws on the books concerning suggesting that certain "entities" be shot. We really don't want anyone to be confused.

Meta: I am certain that there was a brief, split-second thought running thought the heads of many Americans when they first caught the headline...
...And then they read deeper, they thought..."darn!"

[RACastanet]

A bit earlier I noted:

Kansas and Nebraska may go from the prohibeted to shall issue this year.

This just in...

Nebraska state senator, registered nurse, and twice the victim of crime, Jeanne M. Combs, 50, is no shy sister when it comes to LB454--the Concealed Handgun Permit Act. The first-term senator from Milligan has made the bill her priority for the session and predicts it will become law. Such action would make Nebraska the 39th right-to-carry state.

Here is the link:

http://www.fremontneb.com/articles/2006 ... /news1.txt

Rich

[Valkenar]

I really think you want to be careful what you post. There are laws on the books concerning suggesting that certain "entities" be shot. We really don't want anyone to be confused.

Maybe I'm confused but wasn't he just saying "I'll flip him the bird, which he can then shoot." Hardly seems controversial to me. But maybe I read it wrong. And besides, since the VP now has a track-record of shooting people anyway, saying he should shoot the middle fingers aimed his way almost seems realistic.

[benzocaine]

The latest generation of 'treebark' pattern cammies makes hunters invisible. It is so good it is scary. It also puts the hunter at risk.

Ben: Can you weigh in on this?

{Edited by Moderator to fix page formatting problems}


Well as we can see here in this picture, this guy would be invisible were it not for the hat and bare skin.

I've been hunting pleanty of times where even with the blaze orange hat on it's hard to see other people.

That's why you must always be sure of your target.

To add to this I believe that people should have to do a refresher hunter safety course ever 5 years or so, just to keep things fresh in their minds. Most of us who hunt do it maybee 3 to 10 days a year. It's easy to forget with proper safety guidelines.

One rule which I feel is the golden rule, and shoud never be forgotten is muzzle control. Always beleive that anything the muzzle is pointed at could get shat at any time. You could trip,or any other freak accident could happen.

[John Giacoletti]

Bill G. said:

Nowhere did it mention in this article that ANYONE was wearing blaze orange.

2) What the heck does "hunting without a proper license" mean? This comment makes no sense. 1,

1. Subsequent news reports stated that the hunters were wearing orange vest.

2. Not a gun or rifle license, a hunting license. You have to have a state license for the particular type of game you're hunting,

Originally posted by John

Don't you just love the bit about the medical assistance rendered by Cheney's staff? Taxpayers be damned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it bothers you that much, I'll pay your share.

Due to Cheney's medical condition he is accompanied by a medical staff. The medical staff is for Cheney and I do resent paying for assistance to a man the VP shot under questionable circumstances. Cheny should own up and pay the freight. The 78 year old attorney was in intensive care for a period and his condition has stabaized.

[Bill Glasheen]

John

Medical personnel do not question whom they are working for or what hour the clock says. They treat people because that is the right thing to do. That's why they are doctors, and the much larger population of people who applied to get into medical school (but didn't get in) aren't. This is a different breed. Work comes even before family. We owe our support to the medical community.

ANY physician walking by a tragedy is likely to offer Good Samaritan services to anyone on this thread without hesitation. The tradition is so important that there are laws protecting both physicians and laypeople who would choose to help during a medical emergency.

As to who will pay for what at the end of the day, that's something for these two friends to work out, I'm sure. And having family members who do work for the federal government, I can assure you that the I's will be dotted and the T's will be crossed. And being somewhat of an expert on medical reimbursement (I'm doing a review now on 3 software products that estimate hospital treatment costs), I can assure you that all has been planned for in advance.

You are entitled to your opinion, John, but quite frankly it raises concern in my heart. It's a little early...

My concern first is for the safety and well-being of the injured party.

- Bill

[John Giacoletti]

Sorry Bill. Maybe you did not notice the razz emoticon.

You're going out on a limb for an intemperate, impulsive decision on the part of the VP. You don't have to saw it off behind you.

It's clear the statement and context meant I'd give the VP the ole middle digit salute.

[Bill Glasheen]

The Good Samaritan is a famous New Testament parable appearing only in the Gospel of Luke (10:25-37). The parable is told by Jesus to illustrate that compassion should be for all people, and that fulfilling the spirit of the Law is more important than fulfilling the letter of the Law.

In Luke, a scholar of the Law tests Jesus by asking him what is necessary to inherit eternal life. To begin his answer, Jesus asks the lawyer what the Mosaic Law says about it. When the lawyer quotes the basic law of loving God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and all your mind, and the parallel law of loving one's neighbour as oneself, Jesus says that he has answered correctly— "Do this and you will live," he tells him.

When the lawyer then asks Jesus to tell him who his neighbour is, Jesus responds with a parable about a traveler who was attacked, robbed, stripped, and left for dead by the side of a road. Later, a priest saw the stricken figure and avoided him, presumably in order to maintain ritual purity. Similarly, a Levite saw the man and ignored him as well. Then a Samaritan passed by, and, despite the mutual antipathy between his and the Jewish populations, immediately rendered assistance by giving him first aid and taking him to an inn to recover while promising to cover the expenses.

At the conclusion of the story, Jesus asks the lawyer, of the three passers-by, who was the stricken man's neighbour? When the lawyer responds that it was the man who helped him, Jesus responds with "Go and do the same."

This parable is one of the most famous from the New Testament and its influence is such that to be called a Samaritan in Western culture today is to be described as a generous person who is ready to provide aid to people in distress without hesitation. In many English-speaking countries, a Good Samaritan law exists to protect from liability those who choose to aid people who are seriously ill or injured.

It is important to note that Samaritans were despised as apostates by the story's target audience. Thus the parable, as told originally, had a significant theme of non-discrimination and interracial harmony. But as the Samaritan population dwindled to near-extinction, this aspect of the parable became less and less discernible: fewer and fewer people ever met or interacted with Samaritans, or even heard of them in any context other than this one. To address this problem with the unfamiliar analogy, the story is often recast in a more recognizable modern setting where the people are ones in equivalent social groups known to not interact comfortably. For instance, in a telling to a conservative middle class audience, the assaulted man could be a middle class businessman, the unhelpful passers-by could be presumably respectable people like a pastor and the substitute for the Samaritan could be some disliked minority such as a homosexual, atheist or biker gang member. Thus cast appropriately, the parable regains its socially explosive message to modern listeners: namely, that an individual of a social group they disapprove of can have a superior moral behaviour to individuals of the groups they approve. It also means that not sharing the same faith is no excuse to behave poorly, as there is a universal moral law.

- Wikipedia

[Bill Glasheen]

John

One must be careful what one posts here. It's easy for someone to misunderstand what you meant. And misunderstanding can lead to ... issues.

I'm glad you made your intent clear.

- Bill

[Glenn]

A bit earlier I noted:

Kansas and Nebraska may go from the prohibeted to shall issue this year.

This just in...

Nebraska state senator, registered nurse, and twice the victim of crime, Jeanne M. Combs, 50, is no shy sister when it comes to LB454--the Concealed Handgun Permit Act. The first-term senator from Milligan has made the bill her priority for the session and predicts it will become law. Such action would make Nebraska the 39th right-to-carry state.

Here is the link:

http://www.fremontneb.com/articles/2006 ... /news1.txt

Rich

This actually has not generated much public discussion here in Nebraska, possibly because it is not the first attempt. It has popular support though and may pass this time. If not this time, then it definitely should pass next time because the new term-limits imposed on state senators in Nebraska will finally get Chambers out of office...he's been state senator for over 15 years and has made a career of opposing anything beneficial to the majority or law enforcement.

Here is a recent discussion of the bill in the Lincoln paper:
http://www.journalstar.com/articles/200 ... 729286.txt

[Stryke]

THE FIREARMS SAFETY CODE - SEVEN BASIC RULES
1. TREAT EVERY FIREARM AS LOADED
Check every firearm yourself.
Pass or accept only an open and unloaded firearm.

2. ALWAYS POINT FIREARMS IN A SAFE DIRECTION
Loaded or unloaded, always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
Note: A safe direction will depend on where you are!

3. LOAD A FIREARM ONLY WHEN READY TO FIRE
Load only the magazine after you reach your shooting area.
Load the chamber only when ready to shoot.
Completely unload before leaving the shooting area

4. IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET
Movement, colour, sound and shape can all deceive you.
NEVER FIRE UNTIL YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN.

5. CHECK YOUR FIRING ZONE
THINK! What may happen if you miss your target?
What might you hit between you and the target or beyond.
Consider the possibility of ricochets.

6. STORE FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION SAFELY
When not in use. Lock away the bolt, firearm and ammunition separately.
Note: It is an offence to leave a firearm where a young person can get access to it!

7. AVOID ALCOHOL AND DRUGS

fairly basic huh ? , did he break any of these ?

[Bill Glasheen]

From everything I've heard so far from firearms safety experts, here's the issue.

1) The parties broke up into two groups. The injured party went off to pursue one animal shot at, and came back to rejoin the original group. When doing so, they lost track of each other.

2) VP Cheney then shot at a bird flying towards the direction of the individual coming back from behind. There were issues with the parties being at different elevations, possibly the sunlight, etc.

It was a goof for sure. You need to know where everyone is before you are shooting. And if you are approaching an armed party, you need to communicate your whereabouts.

It's also worth mentioning that birdshot scatters. This wasn't a direct line of fire shot as far as I can tell. The injured party got hit in the face and neck with the scatter of pellets.

It's also worth mentioning that the injured individual was 78 years old. This is why he is being held in a trauma ICU. Somthing that's no big deal to an average adult can be a big deal to someone of this age. And the location of the injury can be cause for concern for many reasons.

With 20/20 hindsight, it's pretty clear that there were "goofs" involved.

- Bill

[-Metablade-]

With 20/20 hindsight, it's pretty clear that there were "goofs" involved.

- Bill

Perhaps you mean such as allowing fat, slug-like republican white men (is there another kind?) who have severe circulatory issues that he needs a staff of doctors follow his "Excellency" around 24-7, should be given or allowed to fire or hold, or inspect, ANY device which explodes violently at one end...?