why do I see more style bashing?

[Stryke]

so freaking reserved , you should be proud ....

great edit .....

Bill knows Rick knows , the Uechi world knows

at the end of the day only those who have proven sunstance in my own experience hold credence .

any truth that familairity breeds contempt , not true in my experience .

[Seizan]

"All is in Sanchin" Is a very famous and perhaps overused phrase among the Uechi "old style" practitioners. (and by the way, that includes some very famous Okinawan notables)

I don't know anyone familiar with Uechi-ryu feel that by using the phrase, they are saying "Uechi is superior" or "all you have to do is sanchin" in order to be a great fighter. (Although at least one "oldstyle" uechi master is credited for doing just that - but of course, that could just be another "old style" urban legend)

Folks,

There are more out there (and over here) who claim "old style" than you might think! Maybe it depends on what they define as "old style".

I would very much like to meet such a person/s as the one referred to (it was pointed out in a private message that it was "probably" someone I know well, but it isn't, sorry). I've heard the phrase "All is in Sanchin" used maybe twice in the last 8 years (in relation to kata corrections). I know of no one who claims to have actually fought anyone using only Sanchin. I think that's a fighting style we'd all like to see...!

Any UFC videos of that out there?


Regards and a chuckle,


Seizan

[jorvik]

Quote
"Now we get to Ray (jorvik):

“I must say that this is a very strange discussion one of the things that puts me off doing Uechi is all this nonsence that I'm hearing that Uechi is everything .It's judo Aikido and Thai boxing ........and that is why it took Kanei three years to learn Sanchin, because he had to learn all the gun and knife applications and the anti-terrorist techniques
come on let's have a little bit of intelligence here ”

Hmm what might be the difference here?

A strong opinion but what rational is presented.

What discussion is invited?

Uechika are so ridiculous that he would now never train Uechi. And oh yeah why not a slap at the founder while you are at it.

I could go on but why bother you will either get it or you will not."

I'm not knocking Uechi, in fact I am doing Uechi a service ......I am saying that it stands as a martial art on it's own and doesn't need egocentrics adding new stuff to it, and then pretending that it was always there . I mean seriously look how ridiculous it is to say that one martial art does everything, is everything ..no other martial art says that. It's like me saying I'll show you my new Judo kicking kata..you'd know I was talking rubbish .....so when I see other folks saying the same thing I point that out.

I've seen ( as I've said ) folks doing new "Kumites" that to me as an experienced Aikodoka looked like like very,very poor Aikido.....there were basic errors which an aikidoka would have been told about, better ways of doing certain throws, because quite simply Aikido like Judo has a data base of learned knowledge which comes about from hundreds of years of folks trying stuff out and rejecting stuff that doesn't work. you can read books about aikido which look very nice like "Aikido and the dynamic sphere".lovely line drawings, but informationally lacking in any depth

Folks have gone off in different directions in Uechi based on false knowledge, stuff that they thought was Uechi and wasn't
look at body conditioning. we learn from Master Toyama that it was completely diifferent from the self abuse we often see today. that there was a fourth kata and it is the one that Bill does. Only by asking questions can we get to the root of what Uechi is.then you can truthfully say that you practise the art that Kanbun learned in China ( or as close to it as you can get).but if you go adding new stuff and pretending that it was always there then in my eyes you lack integrity, unless you are honest enough to admit that it isn't Uechi

[JimHawkins]

[Bill Glasheen]

There is nothing so wasteful as doing with great efficiency that which doesn't have to be done at all.

- Anonymous

[Bill Glasheen]

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

- Basho

[MikeK]

I am saying that it stands as a martial art on it's own and doesn't need egocentrics adding new stuff to it, and then pretending that it was always there

Since my Bill as Borg joke is being abused I'll pipe in.
First the Borg joke wasn't meant to deride Bill's ability to assimilate parts of other arts into his Uechi. It was meant to poke a little good natured fun and at the same time compliment the man. I believe Bill got what I meant.
That leads into Ray's comment.
I have never heard Bill imply that something was always in Uechi. Bill does have the rare ability to see how something from other arts fits into and relates to his core art. What you end up with is someone who is incredibly faithful to that core art while still having something that is alive and growing. If you want to train in something done the way master X did it then more power to you, but I can appreciate people who prefer not to let an art atrophy.

[jorvik]

Quote
"I have never heard Bill imply that something was always in Uechi. Bill does have the rare ability to see how something from other arts fits into and relates to his core art. What you end up with is someone who is incredibly faithful to that core art while still having something that is alive and growing. If you want to train in something done the way master X did it then more power to you, but I can appreciate people who prefer not to let an art atrophy"

I wasn't talking about Bill, actually the person that I had in mind has never posted here
The point that I am making ( .and why does this seem so hard? ).is that when somebody makes up a Kata it starts with fighting movements, as with Tai-Chi, as with Wing-chun as with preying mantis. They all start with key component parts.which are then meshed together to make a whole.Now this doesn't always happen. some arts do not have a key stratagy they just train techniques. now Uechi as everyone keeps telling me is a sister art to Wing-Chun and to Mantis, which implies it has similar component parts. I have even said that Uechi has tan-sau i.e. Sanchin and fook sau as in the uechi guard stance, this would seem to imply that it is indeed a similar style to WC however you can't keep on doing these kind of analogies add nauseum without making your argument eventually nonsensical...if it has similar components to WC then it sure as hell doesn't have similar component parts to Tae kwon do or judo or savate or whatever. If it does have a core then simply state what it is

[MikeK]

My apologies Ray, but I still stand by my sentiment of "I can appreciate people who prefer not to let an art atrophy".
My instructor is the same way. If it was something that kept him alive he didn't worry if it was in the syllabus of Shotokan or not.

I'll let the Uchikies say what the core is.

[Van Canna]

Thank you for the entertainement guys, just what I needed for a dreary NE morning.

Reminds me of this

Many people like to assume the spiritual platitude that “WE ARE ALL ONE”. And this is true for as long as we are a part of the herd and its mentality.

Once we step away from the herd a new Grace arrives and we are all ourselves. One, but not one at the same time.

One, but this particular one at the same time.

We are all one it would appear until it is time for someone to climb up on a cross and be crucified. You then notice how quickly the ranks thin and how alone your feet are left to dangle and sweat and how quickly WE ARE ALL ONE changes into one drunk homeless guy standing at the foot of the cross saying : “you da man!”.

We are all one until it is time to die. And then we are all many mofos looking for the exit.

__ Bill Hicks

[Bill Glasheen]

Providence protects children and idiots. I know because I have tested it.

- Mark Twain

Creative minds have always been known to survive any kind of bad training.

- Anna Freud

[gmattson]

Seizan: Folks,

There are more out there (and over here) who claim "old style" than you might think! Maybe it depends on what they define as "old style".

I would very much like to meet such a person/s as the one referred to (it was pointed out in a private message that it was "probably" someone I know well, but it isn't, sorry). I've heard the phrase "All is in Sanchin" used maybe twice in the last 8 years (in relation to kata corrections). I know of no one who claims to have actually fought anyone using only Sanchin. I think that's a fighting style we'd all like to see...!

I was referring to "old style" practitioners as anyone who trained on Okinawa prior to that infamous 1958 point in time, when suddenly some uechi dojo changed the style into a sport system.

Tomoyose sensei talked about the famous (he said so) uechi practitioner who only studied and practiced sanchin. I don't remember how this individual earned this "famous" reputation, but I suspect he gained it by doing something spectacular relating to the martial arts or... who would have cared that all he did was sanchin!

[Seizan]

Mattson Sensei,

Thanks for the clarification, though I felt you were actually referring to the many who claim that any training prior to any named split (even the most recent), addition, change of wallpaper etc. is "old style"...!

Another American practitioner told me that when he came to Okinawa and performed for the Seniors, he was taken aside and quietly informed that his Sanchin needed some correction. He told me they said "You are performing Sanchin like old Kanei Sensei". He was very proud of that.

That visit was around 1982 or so, I think.

Later he told me "When it comes to Sanchin, I AM KANBUN!"


Now, THAT's "old style"!


I later had a chance to speak to one of those Seniors who were present when the gent was here. He laughed, and said "No no - we told him he performed his Sanchin like an old man!"

Another definition of "old style", I guess...!

You may well be the last active foreigner who trained during Kanei Sensei's greatest teaching years. And you certainly don't look or perform like an "old man"!

Regards,

Seizan

[Van Canna]

Later when our discussions began falling apart, he told me "When it comes to Sanchin, I AM KANBUN!"

I have often had rollicking fun with the 'delusive traditional' _ much to the dismay of a few 'subterraneans' ...

Everybody comes to you for your gasoline boy, that's some filling station you got there

[a.f.]

To go way back:

Jake:

Different people will tell you different things. But I don't do a snappy punch. I do a torquing, twisting punch.