why do I see more style bashing?

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JimHawkins
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Post by JimHawkins »

Well actually I think it was as close as you can get to Shotokan if the Shotokan wasn't Shotokan.. :lol:

With some Uechi conditioning/influence and an odd Sanchin perhaps..

The majority of the training time was spent moving around the room looking a lot like this gentleman...and making a lot of noise..

Image Image

Although our fist chamber were in the armpits..don't know which would be correct for JKA..

While working all the traditional blocks and punches, circle stepping, kicks, intermediary positions, etc.. And with pretty darn good positioning from what I have seen elsewhere in "pure" SK.

Most other karate schools I have visited or trained in were not as "traditional" as this kind of training, which was tough.

They also sparred hard every class and trained several "self defense" moves and had interesting testing involving fighting multiple opponents in sparring, and having your hands tied behind your back and/or seated while being attacked... 8O

Any examples of the JKA "standard" sidekick training, I'd be interested to see if we did anything like that.. Is that more common that the step behind thing? We did others like the "step slide" "skip" etc, as well.

Yet I take it that these variations or lack of what I detect as "purity" seems to mean <and I am not disagreeing I don't think, and correct me if I am wrong> that this was clearly NOT Shotokan nor Uechi..

I this not the very idea that has been adamantly debated on this very thread that there is a clear definition of what something is and if it isn't something specific, through and through then it is something else?

This seems to contradict the notion of "Don't tell me my Uechi--or ShotoUechiKan--isn't whatever it is" No?

And I am not disagreeing with you or trolling.... ;) :angel:
Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Hey Jim I just got the wrong idea of your expereince is all

I`m all for variation , But all for maintaining the base/core to extrapolate from .

when you said Uechi I thought you meant Uechi kata , not some version of sanchin you couldnt identify , to me Uechi will always be the big three kotikitae and conditioning .

shotokan likewise the kata are the core .

did you do the shotokan kata ? , start with the heians etc ?




Any examples of the JKA "standard" sidekick training, I'd be interested to see if we did anything like that.. Is that more common that the step behind thing? We did others like the "step slid" etc, as well.
it`s the same but opposite , and in my experience it`s more common , It may be only standard in my limited experience . Thers a kick and turn combination also .

I have no problem with experimentation and variation . But did they teach it as Uechi and shotokan or something else ?

I guess my only issue is you selling your experience as Uechi or shotokan , if it was based in the original kata then I`d say it was , if it wasnt then I`d call it a hybrid , not necessarilly better or worse , just something else . Maybe just karate would be a better term .

I`m just trying to follow you when you keep referring to when you did Uechi and you didnt even do one of the uechi versions of kata .

as I said my misunderstanding it seems .

I just thought a black and white guy like you with what is and isnt , would be more literal when he said he did Uechi , or Shotokan , I didnt expect such openmindedness on variations .

I`m pleasantly surprised you can see the correlation .

I`m not in the discussion about what is and isnt , it`s the smallest part of this thread IMHO

just clarifying .
This seems to contradict the notion of "Don't tell me my Uechi--or ShotoUechiKan--isn't whatever it is" No?
I think you miss the point entirely in regards to my opinion on the topic , hence I dont choose to engage in it with you any more .

but for once of clarification .

that is anything can be added to (and understood via) the foundation ,but it is the foundation that is the base/style . Additions are fine but the core is just that , and to be understood as such .

I just mistakingly assumed when you meant Uechi and shotokan you meant the foundation material as a base .

of course everyone has a different veiw and thats fine

but I dont really wish to get into another argument on semantics , I get it , I`m happy to leave you with your opinion healthy and intact .
Last edited by Stryke on Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JimHawkins
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Post by JimHawkins »

Stryke wrote: when you said Uechi I thought you meant Uechi kata , not some version of sanchin you couldnt identify , to me Uechi will always be the big three kotikitae and conditioning .

shotokan likewise the kata are the core .

did you do the shotokan kata ? , start with the heians etc ?
I only learned the first two katas they did, the mutant Sanchin... :lol: and, if I am not mistaken the first Shotokan kata with all the "down blocks" they did train more of the Shotokan Kata, but I have no idea of what changes or additions may have been made to the material.

And if I was really black and white I don't think I would have mixed and matched and extended stuff in WCK with other stuff or ideas like I do naturally..

But like you I would explain that one thing is not the other if it isn't...
Shaolin
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"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

But like you I explain that one thing is not the other...
I identify the base and explore the possibilities and variations .


sorry I caught you with an edit , i was being particular in my wording ;)
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JimHawkins
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Just for the record...

Post by JimHawkins »

If I "sell something" on these forums then it will be an argument based and suppored by logic and/or facts that stands on its own merit.
Shaolin
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"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

Huh. Ironic. I just read a rant by some muay thai big man on campus about how muay thai is superior to every other striking art, how in some championship the thais knocked out all the karate guys in like 2 seconds, blah blah blah blah,
crap.

:roll:
MikeK
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Post by MikeK »

I talked with Ray Berry about Ohshima Sensei hurting his back. Ray studied directly with him. Ohshima hurt his back doing a specific kata move (start the kick with the foot tucked behind the back of knee) with a yoko geri. That should never have been done. You most definitely can hurt your back doing that. I was pretty comfortable with what Ray described to me. Ray seemed to be able to create a very coherent story for me.
Bill, Sounds like the side kick in Gokanku. Very recently my instructor Don pointed out the same exact thing to me and had me change how I was doing it. He pointed out the changes Ohshima made to how the sequence was performed from how he showed it in the Karate-do Kihon.
Through the years, Ray would even show me Ohshima Sensei's evolution of thinking on various techniques. Interesting... It was always to some extent a moving target. Wow, what a concept!
Evolution in Karate!? 8O You must be pulling my leg. Everybody knows that the masters were strict preservationists who never changed or tampered with what they did. :lol:

It's interesting how old techniques are dropped, replaced and brought back.
I was dreaming of the past...
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

a.f. wrote:Huh. Ironic. I just read a rant by some muay thai big man on campus about how muay thai is superior to every other striking art, how in some championship the thais knocked out all the karate guys in like 2 seconds, blah blah blah blah,
crap.

:roll:
So how did you respond?
a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

It wasn't on a forum; it was just an article. Here's a link to it.

http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html

What propoganda.

I was having a discussion with a judo guy (I also do judo, so no biases there) who used to be a karate guy but then switched to muay thai/judo. He said karate was crap.

I told him karate was developed to work. It HAD to work. If it didn't work the karate guys got hurt/killed. Nothing is in there that hasn't been proven. It still does work.

That person was on judoforum.com.

Some of these guys just don't quit.
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

I think that Thai boxing is awesome.....you get these karate guys in their long low stances ( why?? :? :? ) and a Thai will kick the living cr*p out of them. Or look at Sanchin, if you reckon that you can take a hit then go check it out with a Muy Thai practitioner :lol: :lol:
We are only just discovereing that there are arts outside Japan and China and I think that there are some superb styles like Escrima, Muy Thai, silat just waiting to get on the map.
I'm too old to really get in on this so I tend to look for skillfull stuff rather than hardman ( although it really amazes me how so many fat, slow moving slobs think they are a force to be reckoned with :lol: )....so I've gone to Thai Chi ( joke :multi: )
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

You mean thai boxers kicked the crap out of karate guys? Im sure they felt great when andy hug axe kicked the hell out of them or when bas rutten beat the ##### out of them when he took up muay thai.

Or lets not forget chuck liddel.


Training method not style.







IM THE JUGGERNAUT BITCHHH!!!!!!!

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a.f.
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Post by a.f. »

Wow, ahmed; that was the weirdest link I've ever seen on this site :D :wink:

Jorvik: thai boxing is awesome. It's not superior to karate. It's not worse either.
AAAhmed46
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

I like muay thai, the speed at which they throw mass kicks is amazing.

But a uechi guy can do that to if he trains properly.

TRAINING............................





Did you watch the whole thing?

"Im the daughter of Brett Hart"
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

Quote
"Training method not style."
no Muay Thai is actually a style :lol:
Quote
thai boxing is awesome. It's not superior to karate. It's not worse either.

not what I am looking at :roll: .I would say that Thai boxing is streets ahead......and I don't even do it, never have , probably never will.but that doesn't change facts :wink:
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

jorvik wrote:
not what I am looking at :roll: .I would say that Thai boxing is streets ahead......and I don't even do it, never have , probably never will.but that doesn't change facts :wink:
How is it that someone who admits he doesn't know what he is talking about chooses to opine so willingly?

I don't normally give people a hard time like I am you, Ray. But you're just one disasterous statement after the next. What's your bag? Are you here just to stir things up?

- Bill
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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