Yeah, rick showed me some of his videos(you were in it)Bill Glasheen wrote:Adam
It's fair to say that Nippon Jiujitsu (its many variants), Brazilian Jiujitsu, and Judo are birds of a feather. Aikido is also in the same family tree.
The various lines of old school jiujitsu are the antecedents to them all. Judo is a sport, and BJJ these days is the same for the most part. Aikido is the art of "gentlemen" where the practitioner tries to be good enough not to hurt their opponent permanently.
BJJ and Judo select techniques and methods from the broad spectrum of JJ methods which allow two people to go head-to-head. Getting in the competition arenas means there is specialization and optimization for those venues. Things will change; new "techniques" will evolve. But the core is the same.
You want to see some cool stuff? Work with a fellow like Rory Miller, who studies the very old combat art of Sosuishitsu Ryu Jiujitsu. Rory doesn't really care much about winning points and matches. His job is to keep prisoners (one or more at a time) behaving. He deals with the worst of the worst and lives to talk about it. And he needs to operate within the bounds of the law. He specializes in managing bad guys in those venues, and teaches people how to do the same.
The core is the same, the specializations are what vary.
- Bill
That man is awsome.
But he HAD to make it work or get slaughtered,considering his line of work.
Are all Sosuishitsu Ryu Jiujitsu
No, you picked on karate in your previous posts in this thread. So i assumed you are talking about it.See it all comes down to this "My Dad can beat your Dad" ...............I didn't mention any style I could be talking about Roumania Kalaripyat versus Argentinian jiu jitsu.the fact that you assume I am saying Karate *****.says more about your opinion than it does about mine
Training method DOES have alot to it, though i agree, you have to think outside the box.Adam
You're still hung up on the "this style could do such-and-such to that style" bit. You're still stereotyping stylists as training certain ways. Don't go there.
And I still see a lot of "these people train this way, and if they don't then they're not doing their style" bullhockey. The reason why the Gracies did so well is because they went outside the "box" of "their style" and worked with other "stylists." Their minds were open and their playgrounds were inclusive. Those that didn't and believed their own propaganda got their butts handed to them. Soon everyone figured out their formula. Now there are no dominant styles in the UFC, Pride, and other arenas. There are only "mixed martial artists."
But what the hell is a MMA? It's what many of my contemporaries were doing for decades. If you're a fighter and you understand the goal, "your style" is a means to an end. It isn't a crutch, or a name to hind behind. Your teacher can't fight your battles for you. Your belt only holds your pants up. You just get some good tools (the methods of your ryu), get some good instruction, work out with a broad array of good people, and learn what you can.
And you don't let some pinhead with concrete thinking define whom you are and what you should or shouldn't be doing.
As soon as members of a style begin to believe their own legends, they get their asses handed to them. It isn't the style; it's the practitioners and what they make of it.
- Bill
The gracies did do something no one else did, which is the key to thier victory.
But look at Royce's physical training and stamina compared to some of the other fighters there, he could practically run a marathon, while the others were not like this.
Practitioner plays a big role, but how would he know what technique works if he doesnt train dynamically?
Like i said before, TKD and wing chun are not bad styles, people just neglect pressure testing. I dont think chain punching is the only attack for wing chun, i think alot of wing chun ''blocks'' can also be strikes.
In TKD, it is considered a high kicking style. You cant kick to the legs in sparring so most dont do it much.
But TKD has alot of leg kicks, good ones in fact.
And it's the PRACTIONERS who mess it up.
Why is it that boxers and muay thai guys tend to be better fighters?
Is it because they attract better practioners, that every freaking muay thai or boxer thinks outside the box? If this were true, we would not have BJJ/muay thai/MMA forums filled with karate/kung-fu bashing.
It's because they are COMPETITIVE fighters, not touch contact, but full contact in a very dynamic environment.
In other words, you HAVE to be able to punch properly to win or atleast survive, you HAVE to make the style work.
If something you learned you cant do, then you dont do it in the ring or you lose.
They do whatever it takes to win the match.
A complete geek who competes would have to at some point change his mindset and change the way he uses the style, because the competition FORCES him to do so.
And the drills/sparring they do in class prabably do the same.
Training methods, drills, should do the same for us as what competition does for competitive full contact fighters.
If we as martial artists have a focus that is the streets, like RBSD, then we should make our training just as dynamic as the street, and make the individual better.
WKS is not a competivie style, but to keep the trianing real, we make our drills and conditioning and training as dynamic as possible to make up for the fact that we dont have something like ''king of the cage'' to 'force' us to fit the style to use.
We use eachother in class as templates to fit the style to ourselves.
And it works. Look at stan and his performance at David chows tournament, or Ryan and his performance.
Like Rory, he studies a traditional form of jujutsu, considering his line of work he is really really good at using it, and is proof that style is not weak.
But other people who study Sosuishitsu Ryu Jiujitsu; dont have to deal with the ##### he does, they are not forced to use the style to it's full extent.
Im sure that those who study under Rory are very very good because they can benefit from his experience.
Yes practitioner has more to do with it then style, but not training method. A practitioner sometimes doesnt need to train dynamically because he is already someone who has a powerful aggressive intent or mindset or goes home after class and plays with it with his buddies in a different setting and does it dynamically(like bruce lee did with his arts)
Training method is more important i think then even the practioner, because a guy with no talent could become a monster if trained in the right hands and if he works his ass off and learns to fit the style to him.
TUF3 is a good example of that. THe guys on shamrocks team are not less talented, they just had the unfortunate luck of being trained in a half assed fashion(though Nickels should have listened to shamrock when fighting matt)
While tito pushed them, trained with them, showed them lots of stuff, brought his own jujutsu coath, his own standup coach, they did all sorts of things, look at thier drills, they would shoot sprawl, shoot sprawl.
.but this is not the way that I have found martial arts. what do you mean by basics for a start? I have found many arts lacking. they may share a front kick, but some will practise it like mad men, others you will see doing it once or twice in their kata. Look at some of the pictures of lardy Uechi guys then look at someone like Master Toyama.it is very hard to find comparisons or to even agree on what should be compared. in the end I just train with folks that can teach me something.the ones that cannot I leave alone, and the ones that think they are tough guys.they are the ones to really avoid 
