The State of the Martial Arts

[Stryke]

I`m with Jake , TMA WTF

[Bill Glasheen]

Hey, you use some pretty traditional weight-training methods, Marcus!



- Bill

[Jake Steinmann]

If you take the last two posts, I think it says something.

I agree with Jake to an extent. I don't know what the hell I call myself. I teach Uechi. I teach aikido. I ALWAYS teach in locations with a complete gym. (Free weights are a must.) Rich runs a fantastic reality-based self defense seminar. He's a civilian Marine Corp Martial Art Black belt. We do sticks, knives, and traditional Okinawan weapons. We have programs to help people get a concealed carry permit. Rich is NRA certified in pistol, shotgun, and rifle. I ask my students to read books by Grossman, DeBecker, and Goleman.

So WTF are we?

Are the Ryuha static, or are the survivors going to be moving targets?

It's a "cluster" in my book. A constantly morphing cluster.

To some extent, the kind of fun stuff Jake does is based upon a "traditional" art or two.

- Bill

Absolutely. It's why I don't like the term.

Muay Thai has a history going back over 1000 years. Our fighters learn and perform ritual dances before each Muay Thai bout. You can see some of this influence in Kenny Florian, who performs a small part of a Wai Kru at the end of some of his recent MMA fights.

We even bow in and out of class. Heck, we bow going in and out of the ring.

So...what's not traditional about it? The fact that we put on gloves? That we get in a ring and fight? Dueling, as Bill points out earlier, has a long and proud tradition in many martial arts system. The Thai may have modernized it, with gloves and rings and rounds, but it's still tradition.

Not Okinawan or Japanese tradition, mind you, but there's lots of other traditions in the world.

[Stryke]

Hey, you use some pretty traditional weight-training methods, Marcus!

tell that to me the days I`m swinging the sledge around (actually not deadlifting I developed stress fractures and am just healed .... stupid on my part )

I use some pretty traditional karate too

seriously Bill , I am a traditionalist , but the tradition is adaptation and innovation , most claiming to be TMA dont beleive that , they havent done there homework .

Your IUKF traditional core is about 50 years old , what I`m doing has been around since man first thought to negate violence he had to prepare for it ... now thats a tradition , in fact it`s human nature

But Hey I`m sure many will nod there head when I suggest I do Neanderthol-ryu

I do everything on the list of TSDguys , and bring it back to kata mostly , and then if I dont , hey i train it anyway , it`s all part of my karate

I like you fill the gaps , thats MMA , and it could be taken to a sporting format .

Pressure testing is definately a requirement .

A large part of my small Uechi group involves stuff a lot of folks would say looks like the Mauy Thai I`ve dabbled with , and theres some BJJ . heck theres weapons , VSD , mindset , heck I reccomend the same books , hey theres even some chi analysis to keep Bill happy (joke)

And for learning Uechi you threw up a picture Of Joe Pomfret , his MMA is some good Uechi eh !! ( I`m serious !!!! ) , no reason this stuff cant be part of anyones ryu .

And this is exactly why I beleive evolution is not only possible but probable , When I work with more limited veiw folks , they almost always get the wow factor , and they almost always develop something new .

MMA by osmosis is a good thing for good martial artists , and cant be helped , but why would anyone want too .....


But hey there are still groups fighting change , exclusiveness over inculsiveness , my way or the highway types .

these are the groups that will find there numbers slowly drift away into being a niche market .

more of what does not work , will not work

where as what does work will never be threatened by new material , what works is self evident , to MMA and TMA

basically you always have those that make things happen

those that watch things happen

and those that dont know whats happening

I know where my money is .

And I can still do a pretty effective karateka impersonation

[jorvik]

)I'm surprised that I saw no "jars" or "chi-ishi" in the traditional weightlifting post ( maybe they aren't that traditional

[Stryke]

hey Ray i`m trying that too , much harder than I thought it would be to be honest . Will be interesting to compare the benifits in a few months

[Bill Glasheen]

actually not deadlifting I developed stress fractures and am just healed .... stupid on my part

People who push the envelope sometimes step a tad over the line, Marcus. It happens - particularly to those with the elite internal drives.

You're young. You still have all your joints about you. You're a day older and wiser. It's a lucky lesson!

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

It's good to change the strength routines now and then. Stress fractures are a sure sign you haven't done a proper cycling of your routines.

Enjoy your jars and chisi. Try some of the circular strength training stuff. Try some classic Olympic lifts for power development. And along the path to trying some of this new stuff, take some time to enjoy the change of scenery.

- Bill

[Stryke]

Absolutely Bill , I blew the cycling , I got too carried away , I could lift more than my bones were at that point conditioned too , I knew better and did it anyway .

definately approaching some variation , enjoy the circular strentgh stuff , Jars wil help .

It`s all fun , just a test to not hits things for a while ...... but you live you learn .

and I`m getting better at patience .....

[TSDguy]

How about if we use the Traditional in TMA to mean dogmatic? That would be a different TMA than is usually referred to, like in my original post, but it fits my bill of non-MMA in the sense we are using MMA.

[jorvik]

I think that it is all about evolution.say you do Uechi and fight wrestlers .well your Uechi develops in a certain way.say you fight boxers.well it goes another way.same with weights or stretching .......and this doesn't just happen in one art but in every art.so I guess it gets kind of confused

[fivedragons]

"I would just like to take brief aside to register how much I hate the term "TMA"."

Thank you, thank you, thank you.



I like "karate", and "Tang soo do", and "judo" and "kung fu", and "If you ##### with me, I will rip you a new #####, before you can blink your eye, you stupid piece of crap - do."

[fivedragons]

As the resident martial arts clown, I would like to propose that we define the word "efficient".

This word seems to carry a whole lot of weight, but if you want something to be efficient, you have to know the parameters that it will be used in, and understand the difference between a "high percentage technique" in one venue, versus a "life saving technique" in another venue.

Case in point: the friggin' crane eye strike.

This is not only a low percentage technique within MMA training circles, it is literally non existant.

It doesn't exist. Here is my studied evaluation of MMA opinions on what is High or low percentage: BULLSHIT

I don't think anyone cares, but if you would look back through all of my posts, you would not see a single post that put down any training method. All I have ever tried to do is point out that whenever someone stumbles upon something good, they invariably put down something else that doesn't fit into their BULLSHIT scenario of reality, in order to validate what they are doing.

In other words, everyone who teaches, or thinks they are learning martial arts who feels the need to put down someone else's method in order to validate their own viewpoint is FULL OF #####.

What I mean is that if you have something of value, you don't need to present it in contrast to whatever someone else is doing. You just present what you have to offer, and if it has value, it sticks.

That is the way of truth, and not ego.

You will NEVER see aikido being used in MMA. Doesn't mean ##### when it comes to the reality of violence as evidenced by the "anecdotes" of cops, military and even "gasp" green friggin" berets.

MMA ##### will tell you that judo isn't realistic because no one wears a gi in the octagon. NEWS FLASH: USUALLY PEOPLE WEAR CLOTHES.

I could go on and on, but it is pointless because everyone wants to believe that whatever the ##### they are doing is some kind of silver bullet that will protect them from whatever private boogyman they envision as being the epitome of "real violence"

One more try. Tae kwon do is not "effective" because no one won the UFC claiming it. Try telling some ##### tiger marine in a trench, kicking people in the face and chest, while they smash people with their rifle butt, and gut them with their knife and whatever turns you on, that they shouldn't have learned how to use their combat boots as weapons, they should have learned how to ##### around for 20 minutes until they could ##### pull off some kind of bitchin' submission.

The great majority of people who pay good money to learn any kind of "martial arts" or "MMA" bullshit are mentally retarded. And I can say that with authority because I am mentally retarded. WTF.

[Thumper]

Fad be dammed, I love to watch MMA. It’s amazing how much to can learn by watching two men/women beat the crap out of each other. I’ve learned: the importance of repeated kicks to the thigh; that the shortest distance to the face is up the middle; and that once you stun your opponent his/her initial intent evaporates into thin-air.

There is evolution in everything and MMA will be no exception, but it seems to be as good as it gets today, with the possible exception of watching the mayhem caught on dash-mounted police cameras or CNN reports. Life presents examples of what to do/not do every day – we only need to watch to learn.

[AAAhmed46]

[quote]MMA ##### will tell you that judo isn't realistic because no one wears a gi in the octagon. NEWS FLASH: USUALLY PEOPLE WEAR CLOTHES. [quote]

Yoshida wears a gi........