Research reference : syllabus of Uechi Kambun's school

[Josann]

< Which makes me think that this was a thing for demonstrations only...and got a bit out of hand ..............I know that at the last Uechi club I went to I was appalled at how little they did to protect their heads, they kept their hands down and made all sorts of tstsing noices .............now if they ever got into a streetfight then the guy they were fighting wouldn't know that he was supposed to hit their body and he would go straight for the head I know I would...and when I did at the Uechi club they'd get all upset and tell me it wasn't a boxing club >

Let's not forget something Bill said earlier, after most practitioners make the kat their own. For most everybody the hands the sanchin stance will come up to protect the head as the need arises. Just because in sanchin kata the hands are low doesn't imply that they stay there in the face of an attack to the head.

In kyokushikai and some full contact karate styles head shots are forbidden as long as the fighters don't use gloves. Wondering if Jorvik considers those styles and their way of fighting as weak, as he seems to feel that way about uechi.

All the smiley faces can't hide the fact that there is a bit of dissing uechi ryu in this reply.

Or maybe we need to hear the war story about Jorviks adventure in the uechi club again?

[M J Brelsford]

I remember Kanei saying to me that his father taught and passed on to him as he learned in China. With that said, Kanei also added that minor changes have been made by him over the years. (By him = the Uechi Assoc.) Kanei said his dad was very specific in the way he taught, and was very strict in keeping what he had learned in China.

Also he said his father taught and worked on specific movements during class working various application for the moves, although he did not say from were the moves came from.

With all this said, I say that our big 3 have changes only in a very slight manner.
Seisan for example, had no jump back. Sanchin and sanseiryu are fairly untouched, again according to Kanei.

As for a fourth kata, Kanei said his dad saw it but never really gave it much thought or attention. Kanbun’s teaching emphasized a strong and conditioned body and true application of the kata movements. There was only intense and very real fighting application.

Mark

[Glenn]

Mark,

What was in place of the jump-back in Seisan, a step-back? Shorin Ryu styles on Okinawa generally had (and still have) jump-backs in their Seisan, I wonder if the jumpback in Uechi Seisan was borrowed from those. Chotoku Kyan, a contemporary of Kanbun, was renowned for his Seisan jump-back, so it likelywould have been known to Kanei at the time he was making changes.

I have read that Kanbun's students have said that when Kanbun taught the kata he did so by dividing each up into discrete segments of techniques, rather than as a whole kata, and that they never saw him perform a kata from start to finish in a single performance. Such a teaching style can make a big difference in how kata are transmitted and remembered by the next generation.

[f.Channell]

Bill,
You got me and Mike confused.

I would be more likely to post you a wang chung video than a wing chun video.



I'm into Japanese martial arts. Uechi to me was perfected in Wakayama and Okinawa.

F.

[M J Brelsford]

Glenn,

It was a step back. The same style as the one at the end of seichin.

Mark

[MikeK]

Did a quick search on the styles that Uechi may have been derived from or that have a Sanchin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5CEfDLHPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxD29u5f ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtLgfru5 ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEQY1h_P ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6_4v6Od ... ed&search=

Hawk chases sparrow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aksUvXn5USM&NR=1

[Glenn]

Regarding some of the styles presented in these clips:

Clips 2 & 4:
WuZuQuan (Five Ancestor Fist) - A couple of WuZu stylists in the U.S. have been claiming in books/articles/videos that WuZu is the parent style of Goju Ryu and Uechi Ryu. However the timeline doesn't work for Goju at least, because the founder of WuZu, Chua Giok Beng, was younger than Higaonna and was not developing WuZu until 1875, while Higaonna was training in China in the 1860s and early 1870s. At best Chua and Higaonna may have trained together and thus Goju and WuZu would be sister styles. I'm not convinced of a close relationship between WuZu and Uechi either, particularly given that the only evidence presented is that they both have Sanchin (albeit performed quite differently) and a couple of similar techniques.

Clips 5 & 6:
Whooping Crane - Research in the Goju circles has led to some acceptance of the idea that Higaonna's teacher, whom Higaonna referred to as Ru Ru Ko, was in fact the founder of Whooping Crane, Xie Zhong Xiang. This possibility is discussed at length in Pat McCarthy's book Bubishi: The Bible of Karate. Here is an example of a website that discusses it http://www.chinesegoju.org/history2.htm

[maxwell ainley]

Mike the makegabe-gu is a simple twisting device ,working you in a different way and manner to the jars .

The handle traditionally would be a wooden one ,personally i use wood coming across some great inch and a half section privet hedging around fifteen year ago ,all you need now is a strong nylon type rope attached to a weight ,attached to the centre of around a fifteen inch handle ,you can vary the drop of the rope to suit just how much work you want to invest in by way of reps.
rotate the handle by twisting to lower your weight and return it, over hand and underhand techniques work wrist arm grip strength.

[Glenn]

http://www.bushifitness.com/hu_training.htm
The 6th picture down on this site shows a version of what Max is referring to as makegabe-gu, although they call it a "Ishi-sashi with wrist roller":

[mhosea]

Thanks Max and Glenn.

[f.Channell]

They have one of those in my gym. No japanese name though.

F.

[f.Channell]

Up on the wall is a suburi bokken. This is an extra heavy bokken used to developing power in the swing.

That would be good for developing "closed gate" power or strength.

Or tendinitis if you swing wrong.

F.

[jorvik]

quote
"In kyokushikai and some full contact karate styles head shots are forbidden as long as the fighters don't use gloves. Wondering if Jorvik considers those styles and their way of fighting as weak, as he seems to feel that way about uechi.


Yeah and that is a sport, ever see them do those big ole flying kicks where they end up on the floor.try doing that in a streetfight.

quote
All the smiley faces can't hide the fact that there is a bit of dissing uechi ryu in this reply.

Or maybe we need to hear the war story about Jorviks adventure in the uechi club again?"


I'm not dissing Uechi...there's one very good Uechi man in my area that Van knows, he doesn't train anymore , and I've trained with a very good Canadian.
But These folks were Scheitt..and scheitt is scheitt....in Uechi or anywhere else.
they don;t get any special dispensation because they do Uechi ( whatever Uechi is )

[Glenn]

By the way, the person demonstrating the wrist roller in the picture above, Kimo Wall, is likely known by some of you, I know he has been to summer camp before teaching aspects of Matayoshi Ryu kobudo.

[mhosea]

and scheitt is scheitt....in Uechi or anywhere else.

Ah, but the colour of it is debatable.