Need Information for FireDragon 2007 Results

[Bill Glasheen]

I have the raw scores for the FireDragon test given at camp in 2007. However there is a bit of a problem.

In the chin-up part, the participant may do as many chin-ups as posssible in a minute period. The participant may rest as much as (s)he wants to during the minute. However, (s)he may not get off the bar. Once off the bar, this part of the test is over.

Some participants in the chin-up section elected to drop off the bar and rest before getting back on again and doing more chin-ups. This isn't allowed. If this was done, I cannot count this portion of the test in the record book. And for such participants, I'll need to create some kind of modified score.

I need all participants who read this to PM me a note. Just simply state whether or not you rested, and give your name. No biggie, but I need to be fair in the scoring. Until I hear from you, I'll have to assume that the results for this part of the test aren't valid.

Thanks for your understanding, and sorry for the confusion. But it's only fair that we keep the conditions identical for everyone. We do have a few past participants - male and female - with some pretty astounding results in this section. It's only fair that they and the other valid participants be part of the records I keep to create norms for further scoring of the test.



- Bill

[Fedele]

Hi Bill,
The rule of dropping from the bar and resting seemed odd to me and I questioned it at the time, the organizers felt that it was just; as long as you stay within the one minute requirement.
I think that everyone that performed this exercise rested at least once or more; I have done more chin-ups than anyone in the past and I believe that I did more than anyone this year but I myself was unable to complete the full minute without resting.

I can tell you with confidence that I did 24 chin-ups before I dropped from the bar but I doubt that everyone will remember there count before resting, I also think that you are going to have trouble contacting everyone that participated as some people don’t read the forum and to invalidate someone’s score because they don’t read the forums is just not fair!

It’s up to you Bill how you handle this but I would recommend that you leave the scores as they are as we were all playing by the same rules at the time otherwise you could be looking at a long drawn out mess and ill feelings by many.

I know that this is a lot of work for you Bill and we all appreciate the hard work that you put into it, good luck..


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Fedele

[Bill Glasheen]

Fedele

Your kind words are appreciated.

I will make whatever adjustments necessary. But I don't want these chin-up results to go into the benchmark database. That wouldn't be helpful, and it wouldn't be fair to folks who followed stricter rules in the past.

I screwed up. When I transferred information to my team, I apparently wasn't clear about this point. But people will receive a score, and their patches they received are well-deserved.

As a matter of relevance, the rule as it stands is there for a reason. You are a weight lifter and former bodybuilder, Fedele. You know how you can eek out a few more lat pull-downs or rows if you use wrist straps. That's all fine and good if you want big-ass lats and a big back, and don't particularly care about your grip. It's fine if you don't care about how your muscles work together (a.k.a. essential synergy).

The rule of hanging on requires that the participant doesn't just have biceps, lat, and rhomboid strength. It requires the practitioner to coordinate this with grip strength as well. As you well know, this is highly relevant to martial arts - particularly Uechi Ryu. With our shokens, boshikens, and hirakens, we can both strike and grab/gouge like the tiger. But we do so while maintaining posture and keeping ourselves rooted either on our feet or in a stable grappling position.

Anyhow, glad you participated again, Fedele. Meanwhile I'll find a way to "tweak" the scores so I can get a final result.

Bill

[Fedele]

I don’t think that there is anyone who would agree that you screwed up Bill, you and your students did a great job especially since you weren’t even present.
The Fire Dragon competition is becoming very popular and talking to some of the competitors I feel that it will continue to grow thanks to your hard work.

I know that you will figure out a way of making the results come together in a timely manner but a suggestion from me if I may, working on the assumption that everyone tired at a similar place in there total count percentage wise; maybe you could deduct 15% or whatever you feel fit from every ones total chin-up score.
As a guide, if it helps, after my preceding set of 24. I did an additional 4 to make a total count of 28. Just a suggestion!


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Fedele

[Bill Glasheen]

You and I are thinking along the same lines.

Bill

[chef]

First of all, I apologize for not doing the Chin Up part of the test correctly. I was the primary person in charge of that, and I obviously goofed. I was a last minute stand-in, who had volunteered to help because Bill had to cancel camp last minute due to a family schedule crisis.

I was not able to adequately discuss the procedure with him beforehand and erroneously did this part of the test. I am very, very sorry about this and wanted to send my apologies to all who competed in this area.

I know you are the scientist/statatician (sp?), Bill, and like to do things by the book, but IMHO, I would have to agree with Fedele. Many people have their best results in the chin up/pull up area. That is their forte, maybe over running or broad jump. All who competed consistently did take a break so it seems a shame to throw that out....and I don't believe we would be able to contact all who competed. Taking this away make radically affect the results of their overall performance score, lowering their score. That would be a shame since many stay in shape all year to do well at this Fire Dragon test.

FWIW, just some thoughts on the scoring.

Vicki

[Bill Glasheen]

It's my bad, Vicki. I didn't write down the "can't let go" rule.

We'll work something out.

FWIW, each part of the test taxes a unique part of your musculature and/or your energy metabolism. Push is matched with pull. Upper is matched with lower. Endurance is matched with explosiveness. No one part of the test is the be-all, end-all of the whole.

- Bill

[IJ]

Just out of curiousity, how were the chinups standardized? We do a lot of em in jiujitsu and some people locked their wlbows straight, then pull their whole head above the bar; others go partway down and elevate only the nose over the bar. Helps them pull out a better number

[Bill Glasheen]

Must go all the way down (within reason) and all the way up to chin above the bar. This is a strength and not a power exercise. In other words, no body jerking and no bouncing off the biceps stretch reflex.

They have a whole minute. Trying to cheat doesn't really help all that much. I try to get one person monitoring the activity from beginning to end so at least on the same day things are pretty standard.

- Bill