Debate grows over use of Tasers by police

[TSDguy]

I don't know what the hell is going on, every day I open up CNN or whatever news, I see more taser abuse situations reported. I don't know if it's because that's a hot topic right now, or if it's really getting out of control. Kinda scary...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/201700_taser30.html

[IJ]

This line i a bit much:

"Amnesty International wants officers to stop using the devices until independent tests prove they're safe. Some studies have said there's not enough scientific data to determine whether Tasers are safe for use in all circumstances."

I agree. We should totally ban Tasers and use technology which makes arrest completely safe for all violent offenders, such as only arresting them if they comply, or shotguns.

[Valkenar]

I think the real issue in this is that it looks like the abuses are often in the form of an officer thinking of the taser as a casual compliance tool, which really is not how it ought to be used. At least those are the sort that get publicity; The kind where the officer tells someone to do something, they argue a little, and the taser is then used to compel them. The taser definitely has a legitimate place in the force continuum, but "anytime someone is pissing you off" is not the right place.

It's hard to tell how large of a problem this is or how widespread, since it is a hot issue and thus probably overexposed right now. Still, I think it's reflective of a general increase in authoritarian abuse that's been going on under the guise of security since 2001.

[Glenn]

Here is another that has gotten national attention, this is from CNN yesterday:
Woman says she didn't deserve Taser treatment
I wonder what percentage says it does deserve taser treatment.

[TSDguy]

Hicks said Gill was extremely intoxicated and that she was not obeying the officer's commands when the Taser gun was used. He said police have the right to deploy the force that's necessary when confronted with such situations. When a Taser gun is used and it doesn't temporarily incapacitate the suspect, he said, police can use it again.

"It's a good, nonlethal weapon for somebody who is out of control," he said.

This is the scary part. She's not obeying the officers commands, it doesn't say she was attacking him or anyone else. The officer's quote seems to be along the lines of what's been mentioned: police see it as a way to get people to do what they want them to do, rather than to protect anyone.

It also highlights why people tend to get tased 10 times in a row. If someone was using a weapon like that on me, I wouldn't suddenly become calm. I'd flip the ##### out and make every attempt to murder anyone in my general vicinity. Everyone knows the best way to calm down a dog is to back it into a corner and then kick it in the face.

[Valkenar]

It also highlights why people tend to get tased 10 times in a row.

There's also this:

A person hit with an Taser will feel dazed for several minutes. The pulsating electrical output causes involuntary muscle contractions and a resulting sense of vertigo. It can momentarily stun or render an attacker unconscious.

http://www.beststungun.com/faq.html#how%20air

If someone is dazed for several minutes, wouldn't that make it harder for them to compy? This is pure speculation, but I can imagine an officer tasing someone multiple times because they didn't respond after the first, even though the tasing itself made it harder for them to comply. Especially if the person tased is unusually susceptible and finds the lingering effects seriously debilitating.

Then again, the mechanics of the personal defense taser may be sufficiently different from the police taser that this isn't an issue. Anyone know if this sort of scenario is possible or likely?

[IJ]

I don't think there's any vertigo. I'm not aware of any effect on consciousness or mentation. Tazing probably makes you mad or scared but so does getting tackled by police.

[Stryke]

There debating introducing them in NZ , and its building support

A guy tried to attack a cop with a hammer the other day and was shot and killed .

very good advertisement for the tazer

[TSDguy]

Still, I think it's reflective of a general increase in authoritarian abuse that's been going on under the guise of security since 2001.

Ok, the following article comes from a site that does not look like the relatively unbiased BBC, but ignore that and read the article or watch the Fox News videos. link You sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist for even mentioning it, but it's based in reality.

Commentators have linked the increased cases of brutality with a post 9/11 mentality in America where civil liberties have been totally diminished and the anointed "authorities" simply consider themselves above the law.

Former Reagan government official Paul Craig Roberts, for instance, has succinctly described the mentality as having turned "an epidemic of US police brutality into a pandemic".

[MikeK]

They are security guards not LEOs. And what kind of school needs that many security guards?

And Alex Jones is an idiot.

[TSDguy]

Their job title isn't relevant, the attitude is. Where do you live? All city schools have security.

[MikeK]

The job title is relevant as it describes what they are and what they aren't.

"Police and security officials are being trained that it's OK to beat, torture and taser anyone should they not answer their questions or comply with their every order."

Is that something that Steve Watson of Infowars.net can confirm or just more delusions of the nutter crowd that popped up after 9/11?

While I think the situation could have been handled better I don't see it as some great pandemic of unbridled violence by law enforcement.

http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/bro ... ol/ca/1461

[MikeK]

Woman dies after airport arrest

PHOENIX (AP) — A woman late to her plane became irate, was put in handcuffs and was later found dead in a holding cell, police said. Authorities were investigating Saturday if the woman choked herself while trying to get free from the handcuffs.

Carol Ann Gotbaum, 45, of New York, was arrested Friday at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport after a conflict with gate crews who refused to allow her to board a plane, said Sgt. Andy Hill, a Phoenix police spokesman.

The airline said the plane was already preparing to depart. She was rebooked on the next flight, but "she became extremely irate, apparently running up and down the gate area," US Airways spokesman Derek Hanna said Saturday.

Officers handcuffed her and took her to the holding room, where she kept screaming, authorities said. Hill said officers checked on her when she stopped screaming and found her unresponsive.

Hill said it appears Gotbaum may have tried to get out of her handcuffs, became tangled in the process and the cuffs ended up around her neck. A cause of death will be determined by the Maricopa County Medical Examiner.

"She was very agitated and irate and angry," Hill said. "These are the things that led to the disorderly conduct arrest."

Authorities said neither a Taser nor pepper spray was used on the woman.

Gotbaum was the daughter-in-law of New York City's public advocate, Betsy Gotbaum.

"We are extraordinarily upset," said Betsy Gotbaum, according to Sunday editions of the Daily News. She added that her daughter-in-law had three young children. "It's a very delicate matter."

Now handcuffs kill people?

[Glenn]

Some news regarding the use of taser on the student at during John Kerry's visit to the University of Florida:
University Of Florida Police Cleared In Use Of Taser On Student

GAINESVILLE, Fla. -- University of Florida police were justified in using a Taser against a student who refused to stop questioning Sen. John Kerry on campus last month, according to a state investigation released Wednesday.

Some had questioned the use of force in using the stun gun against student Andrew Meyer, leading to the investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. A summary of the agency's report was released Wednesday.

"In short, the FDLE determined that our officers acted well within state guidelines," university President Bernie Machen said in a letter to students, faculty and staff.

Two officers who were placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation were reinstated Wednesday, Machen said.

Rob Griscti, Meyer's attorney, said he had not yet reviewed the report and had no immediate comment. The journalism major is known for posting practical jokes online on his Web site.

The scuffle between Meyer and police started during the Sept. 17 speech by Kerry when Meyer refused to leave the microphone after his allotted time was up, police said. The videotaped altercation and Meyer's cries of "Don't Tase me bro!" were played frequently on the Internet.

The report says the officers' intent was to escort Meyer from the auditorium, but he broke away and refused to follow the officers' instructions.

"Officers decide not to escalate to hard empty hand strikes, kicks, knees or baton ... (it) would have looked like the officers were beating Meyer into submission," the report said.

The report, which has Meyer's name and that of other students blacked out, said the officers did what was necessary to control the student.

"Our purpose is, and has always been, to ensure a civil and safe environment where the many types of campus activities and open discourse can occur," said Police Chief Linda Stump.

Meyer has been charged by police for resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, but the State Attorney's Office has not yet decided whether to file formal charges.

Spencer Mann, a spokesman for the State Attorney's Office, said the decision may be made some time next week.

[Glenn]

To highlight one part:

The report says the officers' intent was to escort Meyer from the auditorium, but he broke away and refused to follow the officers' instructions.

"Officers decide not to escalate to hard empty hand strikes, kicks, knees or baton ... (it) would have looked like the officers were beating Meyer into submission," the report said.

In other words, if they had not tased him he likely would be dealing with physical injuries.