American Kempo Karate

Steele · Post by **Steele** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:24 am

I was just curious if anyone knows anything about this style of Kempo?

I have a neighbor who owns several (4) of these schools, I was doing some work in one of them (not martial arts related) and found the school well equipped. I had not heard of "American" Kempo prior to this. I had heard of Kenpo, but that was related to Ed Parker.
There was a class going on and from the looks of it the style looks like it is geared toward self defense as opposed to an art?

I am a Shohei student and was just curious what American Kempo is.

Thanks

Jason Rees · Post by **Jason Rees** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:37 pm

At some point in his teachings, Ed Parker Americanized everything in his style (including coming up with english terms in place of japanese). Whether he ever attained a full black belt in the original kenpo has been debated many times. His teacher studied kung fu, in addition to kenpo. This possibly explains why Japanese and Okinawan Kenpo lack some circular motions found in 'american kenpo.' The names 'Kempo' and 'Kenpo' seem to be used interchangeably, depending on who's doing the teaching.

I think the main difference you'll find in it is not having to learn japanese terminology. Whether it's more or less aimed at self defense than or as another art is of course as debatable as any style represented here. If it wears the label 'martial art,' then it should impart some means of prevailing in combat. Buyer beware.

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:57 pm

I've visited at least four schools that I can remember. I was not impressed with any of them, but for different reasons.

All of the schools claimed to be geared towards self defense, but 2 were clearly sport fighting (and one wouldn't even let me in the door.)

I very much doubt it has anything to do with the style, although they could have just been using the name.

Steele · Post by **Steele** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:51 pm

The only two people I link with Kenpo/Kempo with are Ed Parker and Fred Villari.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:01 pm

This is probably the place:
http://www.akka.com/RocklandStaff.html
It doesn't seem to list any history or lineage however, nor does list any other Kempo/Kenpo organization under "Affiliations".

This Kenpo site, which claims to be derived from Parker's organization, does not mention the Rockland Kempo school. But then again, this Kenpo site only lists "Schools in good standing with American Kenpo International" which can be interpreted in many different ways:
http://www.akikenpo.com/schools.html

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:27 pm

Glenn wrote: "American Kenpo International"

Isn't that some kind of flavored coffee?

hoshin · Post by **hoshin** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:40 pm

fist off regardless of what others say all systems ( except one that i know in okinawa) that use the name kenpo or kempo are all break aways from the original ed parker system. the name kenpo VS kempo is actually becaue of the japanese launguage structure " when a N is followed by a P or B it is pronouced as an M , they will proffess what they do "is different" and because its spelling is different thats the proof. here is the linage that i know
ED PARKER taught
BOSS CASTRO, NICK CERRIO and many others but these are the two major players thereis one other i cant rememebr at the moment.
FRED VILLARI studied under Cerrio but would never admit it.
FRED BAGLEY and the entire board of directors broke away from villari and started the MASTERS OF SELF DEFENSE chain.
Fred Villari was originaly within a group called UNITED STUDIOS OF SELF DEFENSE. but CHARLES MATTERA broke away and retained the name out west.
all schools can trace there linage back to one of these guys some how some way. however because of authenticity issues and competitive systems linage is never spoken of .

got to run for now ill write more later
steve

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:51 am

Funny that you mention Villari. My son has his vintage Fred Villari Studio of Self Defense t-shirt on right now. So Fred still has cred with some middle school kids.

The Tracy's were big and influential in the art.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Kenpo

And of course the controversial James Mitose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mitose

hoshin · Post by **hoshin** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:20 am

i did a little intenet search for some of the guys i used to know, you can find everybody at

www.kenponet.com
click on " the flame" and then family tree

the old villari guys i new were
charley mattra, john fritz , fred bagley, tokyo joe ( bobby lamatina) cal carozzi, rocky derrico, mark grupposo
you can search these guys out and find where they are today. i think each one has there own chain now.
if you ask who his teacher was and who HIS teacher was you will probably come up to one of these guys if your on the east coast.
as for the style it came from ed parker who studied under professor Chow in hawaii. Chow studied under his father in kung fyu and James Mitose who did karate. Parker also met and worked with Mitose but wrote in one of his books that he was not very impressed with him.
the primary 5 kata in kempo is a watered down version of shotokan beginer kata. there is no governing body to regulate this stuff so changes run rampant. in okinawa the kata would be called pinan kata, in kempo they mis-pronounce it as pin yin. in shotokan the names where changed by Funikoshi to Heian kata. but anyone looking at these kata can tell they are the same. the rest of the kempo kata have various histories most were probably created in the states over the last 30 years.

does any of this answer you questions? lol

steve

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:50 am

These days some of the Kempo guys are in a race for who can get the most stripes on their black belts. I think one senior said he had to jack himself up to something like 15 degree BB because his former students had promoted each other to 10 degree and above.

Jason Rees · Post by **Jason Rees** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:53 am

Steele · Post by **Steele** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:42 pm

hoshin wrote:i did a little intenet search for some of the guys i used to know, you can find everybody at

www.kenponet.com
click on " the flame" and then family tree

the old villari guys i new were
charley mattra, john fritz , fred bagley, tokyo joe ( bobby lamatina) cal carozzi, rocky derrico, mark grupposo
you can search these guys out and find where they are today. i think each one has there own chain now.
if you ask who his teacher was and who HIS teacher was you will probably come up to one of these guys if your on the east coast.
as for the style it came from ed parker who studied under professor Chow in hawaii. Chow studied under his father in kung fyu and James Mitose who did karate. Parker also met and worked with Mitose but wrote in one of his books that he was not very impressed with him.
the primary 5 kata in kempo is a watered down version of shotokan beginer kata. there is no governing body to regulate this stuff so changes run rampant. in okinawa the kata would be called pinan kata, in kempo they mis-pronounce it as pin yin. in shotokan the names where changed by Funikoshi to Heian kata. but anyone looking at these kata can tell they are the same. the rest of the kempo kata have various histories most were probably created in the states over the last 30 years.

does any of this answer you questions? lol

steve

Thanks for the reply.

Basically you are saying that Kempo is a mish/mash of different systems, governed by no-one, subject to whims of change by anyone with a Black belt?

So my question remains ...is Kempo a martial art? Or is it whatever the person teaching it wants it to be?
Uechi/Shoehei is basically the same no matter who is teaching it. Can the same be said for Kempo? If you are a student of Kempo in the NY area and you move to California, are you going to have the same training from both areas? Will the curriculum be the same?

hthom · Post by **hthom** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:55 am

Literal translation from Chinese:

Ken: Fist
Po: Way, or Philosophy, or Theory

Kenpo: Way/Theory/Philosophy of the fist.

"Kenpo", or "Kempo", or similar words, is just another term for Kungfu in Chinese. The two terms are interchangeable although the use of kungfu is more common in southern China. The Chinese usually have several names for the same thing--- and don't forget that Wushu (literal translation: martial art) basically used for the same meaning ---

Kenpo Karate, therefore, is no different from someone who might want to start a style call Kungfu Karate. I am surprised if there isn't one already.

If I had the time and effort and energy, I might want to start a style call Wushu-Karate. Is there such a style already? There are creative people all over the place.

Not to take anything from Ed Parker, who is definitely one of the best known pioneer American karate master.

He could have named his kungfu-oriented style Ed Parker-Ryu, or Kenpo-Jitsu, it would have been just as great a style.

Or , he could've named his style Kungfu Karate.

It's just a name.

Henry

Josann · Post by **Josann** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:30 am

Kenpo may have been a reputable style at one point and still may be taught that way by some. But....... check out these guys.

http://www.dojo.com/blog/

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:44 am

Josann wrote:Kenpo may have been a reputable style at one point and still may be taught that way by some. But....... check out these guys.

http://www.dojo.com/blog/

While he didn't really show much, what he said is generally correct.. Single striking, or any singular action or technique ain't where it's at.. Continuity of action and change/adaptation IS where it's at--the river never stops flowing..

IME quite a few folks using the term Kempo.. Also IME if you ask a kung fu guy from china what kempo is he will just look at you funny.. Most or all kempo styles have no lineage going back to a chinese style, not that they can't be good but as far as an actual style or line going back to china--not--it's American "Karate/Kung-fu" or karate-fu.. which is what it is..