McCain chooses Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska

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Jason Rees
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Post by Jason Rees »

IJ wrote: Experience apparently is not a prerequisite for the Presidency, and this is per both parties.
This is a concern for me as well. I view it as shrewd, but almost inevitable that McCain would turn around and try to possibly beat the Democratic party at its own game. attractive, charismatic, and above all young. Youth... it's 90% of what we hear about. There are people in this country that have decided not to vote for anyone over the age of 50. Crazy. I did raise a brow at the hypocracy of Obama's campaign, impugning Palin's experience. Pot meets kettle?

Biden's pick wasn't lame. It was cautious. It weighed down the lofty rhetoric and brought it down to earth. Not necessarily a bad thing. But saying Biden has foreign policy experience, and saying that experience matters are two different things. Biden knows alot about foreign policy. He just won't actually decide to do anything about anything. Great for a senator. Weak for an executive.
IJ wrote: We'll see if Clinton voters want "any woman" or whether they want someone who thinks more like they do.
I gotta chuckle. Hillary attracted women voters from across the political spectrum. Not all women vote abortion as a litmus test on either side of the issue. Hillary attracted female Republicans and Independents. Democrats crowed about all the women Hillary brought to the democratic ticket when she ran.

The moment a Republican woman runs for VP, somebody spins it that she doesn't somehow think the same way Hillary voters do. I think alot of women on the democrat side are going to do a gutcheck and figure out whether their opposition to this issue or that is going to put them on one side of history or the other. Just like African-Americans and other people of color did when Obama became a clear candidate.

I follow politics. I enjoy a good debate now and then. I HATE coverage that fawns over people ("Oh, Palin's speech was AWESOME!") or categorically condemns them (NBC's "How many houses does this add to the ticket?"). Alot of times, people really seem to lose their heads over this. Case in point, TSD's calling Palin ugly. If she were a plank-swallowing Democrat, he'd never say that.
IJ wrote: I am excited that the Dems have apparently changed the makeup of the White House forever.
I'm not convinced it's for the better, IJ, but we'll see how it all falls out (and hopefully not apart).

Oh, and in an issue near and dear to your heart, Ian, Palin vetoed a bill that would have cut state benefits to same-sex couples.
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Post by mhosea »

I don't think McCain expects a flood of N.O.W. voters, rather, perhaps, the centrist Hillary supporters who were stretching themselves to the left a little. That's icing, though. What he's done is bring up an exciting new player that, based on what we know right now, is astonishingly palatable candidate to Republicans. You must not be getting this--my wife called me at work because she was excited and happy about it. I have a hard time believing that Biden engendered that reaction in common Democrats. In addition, the choice counters the characterization that a vote for Obama is a vote for a historic first and a vote for McCain is a vote against.
I am excited that the Dems have apparently changed the makeup of the White House forever.
That sounds like the concession prize. What it exemplifies is how McCain's choice has rocked the Democratic party. That's why it's better than Biden. You know, everyone knows, instinctively, that it presents a threat. Republicans didn't care about Biden.
Mike
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Post by Van Canna »

She is a pilot, an avid hunter & a lifetime member of the NRA. :)
Van
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

IJ wrote:
Has anyone noticed that this selection means that McCain certifies a person with experience only as the govenor of Alaska (pop 46) and age 44 can be President?
  • Alaska has a population of 670,000.
  • Alaska is the largest state in the union. It is more than twice the size of Texas - the second largest state.
  • Alaska is rich in gold, silver, nickel, zinc, lead, mercury, platinum, and copper. (I worked for 2 years as a geochemist and geologist.) It presently produces about $600 million a month in petroleum and natural gas, and has significant untapped resources. It's also rich in timber and fur. And I do know that Alaska is a prime source of some of the best fish in the world.
  • Being extremely close to Russia, Alaska has always been a significant (albeit unspoken) part of our national defense.
  • Palin is the mother of five kids - one of whom is about to do a tour of duty in Iraq. Are we disrespecting the important role of a mother who by the way also has a full time career?
  • Being governer qualifies someone as having executive experience. And the total executive experience of the other three men is.... zero. Romney was probably one of the few other logical choices in this regard, but we know that some in this country have issues with his faith in much the same way that you have issues with Evangelicals. It is what it is.
IJ wrote:
Especially when McCain has more cancers than fingers and is 72, making it not implausible he could kick it at any moment and put this Governor in charge?
Umm... McCain has had some melanomas removed. He recently had a physical and was given a clean bill of health. McCain is married to a beautiful woman who gave him a fortune and a wonderful child. He's got to be doing something right. Certainly some youthful functions are in order...

For what it's worth... My dad is 86, and is living with cancer. He's sharp as a tack, and one of a rare breed of individuals who is a (full time) certified trader of securities. He'll probably die of something other than his cancer, if I have anything to do with it.

So, Mr. Physician, your point was...

- Bill
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Post by TSDguy »

Jason Rees wrote:stuff about me thinking she's ugly because she's not a democrat
Case in point, you have no idea what you're talking about. The woman is hideously ugly and I don't like democrats much. :lol:

Edit: To be fair, she looks good in Van's photo. But as is a) I seriously thought Bill was mocking her when he said she looked good and b) she looks like she's trying to hide herself behind makeup and glasses and hair and it just looks AWFUL. She needs to watch some "What Not To Wear" or some of those TLC programs. I suppose from now on it will all be orchestrated by aids though, like Clinton.
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mhosea
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Post by mhosea »

Newsflash, young guy doesn't think mature woman looks hot. How boring is that? :sleeping:
Mike
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Post by TSDguy »

I agree, very boring.
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Post by JimHawkins »

Bill Glasheen wrote: Umm... McCain has had some melanomas removed. He recently had a physical and was given a clean bill of health. McCain is married to a beautiful woman who gave him a fortune and a wonderful child. He's got to be doing something right. Certainly some youthful functions are in order...
Great stuff.. :lol:

Bill, I love the way you create these heterogeneous mixtures of "stuff" to--make a point? :lol:

-----------------

You know my buddy has this great dog.. It's about 16 has some trouble standing up BUT the vet says he's okay.. He wears this cool collar his owner's wife made for him, just a lovely thing with studded jewels embedded into it--so he has to be doing something right.. LOL!

----------------

I agree with Ian.. He won't last through the first term IMO (neither will my friend's dog).
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Post by IJ »

Bill, I had a good laugh at your post. You are spot on. Anyone who's governed that many square miles of wilderness MUST be qualified. Especially with all those minerals! I bet they're always writing in with complex governmental concerns ("Hey, I'm Hg, if you don't give me more benefits, I'll poison your fish!" "Hey, I'm Cu, can we talk about Alaska's wiring issues?"). And the fact that she's been able to get pregnant five times? Awesome. Although, I did meet a schizophrenic jail patient recently who's had 12 kids, so, the Republicans are playing it safe with this choice.

Seriously... she might be a great President, I don't know much about her yet, I just know none of those features of Alaska you mentioned makes a bit of difference. My only point has been that McCain had better not scold Obama about his experience. As for the man's health... this physician's point is that the man has lived 72 years and looks like... a patient. More so than GW, more so than Clinton (who, it turned out, had bacon heart and needed a multivessel cardiac bypass). He's allowed to have a heart attack at any moment, which is not saying that he will, or that Obama can't, but, statistically speaking, Palin would be closer to the big chair than Biden, meaning McCain has to certfiy her as ready for the Presidency now, which again means he had better shut up about experience. As for his youthful functions, he did have 2 kids about 20 years ago, which means that .... almost nothing! He might have been as qualified as Bob Dole for an ED advertisement for almost 2 decades now, and this just tells us he was one of the older dads in the PTA. And that he his a rich beautiful wife? Really, who cares--besides McCain?

The point was made that Palin was a fresher choice than Biden. That's because Obama already was the fresh choice, the charismatic, young, glass ceiling breaking candidate, the first potential president who wasn't a white christian male. Both parties sought some balance. The fact that Obama's balancing was traditional and McCain's was nontraditional had to do with where they started from. Sure, it was a smart move on McCain's part and steals some of the thunder of the Dems, but that would have been true even if the Dems had selected an teenaged transexual Asian clerk from San Francisco. However, that kind of decision from the Dems would have made their ticket pretty scary to a lot of middle America.

I don't always read all the UVA publications I still get, but the last one was very interesting, and talked about findings on the IAT, a test that measures subconscious preferences. Turns out most Americans have negative associations about African Americans, including a bunch of AA's themselves (as noted by the black author of "Blink" in his chapter on the test, who found out he had them). Dems had fewer, but were less open about, their racial preferences, and Republicans had more, but were more open about, their preference for white people. This definitely makes a difference in an election, and its well documented that black candidates often do worse when votes are cast behind a curtain than when people are asked about their preferences by a pollster. There was even some interesting speculation about the types of delegates Obama picked up--he had his lead from delegates selected publicly, not one by one in private, and since there is an anti-racism norm in politics, there may have been pressure to favor him over Hillary (while there is a view that sexism is wrong, there is less of a public anti-sexism bias in these situations). Point being, Obama has good reason to worry about what people would think of two nontraditional candidates on a ticket. By starting from the nonconformist position, he was stuck making a less interesting choice for veep. That's life.

It IS a good thing that the White House is going to look different. Once something's been done, people realize it's not that big of a deal, and we can expect more equality on future tickets. Yay! Now, when are we getting that atheist President? Hmmmm....
--Ian
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

JimHawkins wrote:
Bill Glasheen wrote: Umm... McCain has had some melanomas removed. He recently had a physical and was given a clean bill of health. McCain is married to a beautiful woman who gave him a fortune and a wonderful child. He's got to be doing something right. Certainly some youthful functions are in order...
Great stuff.. :lol:

Bill, I love the way you create these heterogeneous mixtures of "stuff" to--make a point? :lol:

-----------------

You know my buddy has this great dog.. It's about 16 has some trouble standing up BUT the vet says he's okay.. He wears this cool collar his owner's wife made for him, just a lovely thing with studded jewels embedded into it--so he has to be doing something right.. LOL!

----------------

I agree with Ian.. He won't last through the first term IMO (neither will my friend's dog).
Jim

You started this...

Pray tell, where did you get your medical degree? Where did you do your internship and residency? Do you have any articles in the peer-reviewed literature that you can cite?

At least I have a doctorate in a health science field, and work every day as a senior scientist for a health information company. I build "glass box" mathematical models that predict health care resource consumption, likelihood of hospitalization, and likelihood of becoming a medical "train wreck." I have evaluated multiple metrics and models that predict likelihood of death. I am finishing the design of a new disease classification system that takes every single diagnostic code in the International Classification of Disease manuals (both US and international) and assigns them to homogeneous cost groups. I produce age-disease and disease-disease interaction terms for our models. I help design the hierarchies within disease pathways (cancer being one of them) that help assess the short and long-term severity of diseases within a disease pathway.

I know a little something about illness and death.

I know a little something about McCain's health. He's had skin cancer lesions removed because (Duh!!) he was a POW and spent day after day in the Vietnam sun with his Irish skin. Skin cancer happens. All McCain's skin cancer lesions have been removed. He is cancer free. He may get more such lesions. You'd better believe that the dermatologist is on him like white on rice, getting at any little something on his skin.

McCain's oncology issues are very much under control. Unlike my dad - who is 16 years his senior and lives a vibrant, professional life with metastatic cancer, McCain is cancer free.

Cancer has nothing to do with all the other usual illnesses (heart disease and stroke) which are likely to kill a 72-year-old male. And as for all those cardiovascular and metabolic issues, he's been given a clean bill of health.

I will venture to say that he's in better health than you, Jim.

I am scolding my dear friend (and I MEAN friend) Ian because he waxed into a moment of hyperbole.
Ian wrote:
the govenor of Alaska (pop 46)

***

McCain has more cancers than fingers and is 72
The first statement there was so obviously hyperbole that it was funny as hell. Population 46, population 670,000... A mere round-off error, no? :D

The second statement however would have gone right over the head of a layperson.

Dr. Ian was having a fun moment, railing someone he doesn't like. Good on him. However the Joe Sixpacks and Jim's of the world are going to eat the hyperbole up as fact. This is why I have to call Dr. Ian. His comment in my humble opinion was unprofessional - coming from an internal medicine resident.

I have to call you on this, Jim, because you don't know what you are talking about. This isn't the first time you have contradicted an expert in a field and talked from where the moon doesn't shine.

I don't care if you're Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green Party, Independent, or the party of I Don't Give a Schit. Fair is fair.
  • We don't discriminate here on the basis of race
  • We don't discriminate here on the basis of religion
  • We don't discriminate here on the basis of ethnicity and country of origin. Believe you me, I have been (justifiably) whacked here on my own form for my comments about the French.

    Fair is fair.
  • We don't discriminate here on the basis of sexual preference.
So please explain to me why it's "sport" to discriminate on the basis of age. Individuals from the land of political correctness should know better. John McCain has had OBJECTIVE assessments of his health, and he is healthier than most.

So why is John McCain's age an issue, unless political correctness is only a matter of personal expediency?

- Bill
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Bill Glasheen wrote:
So why is John McCain's age an issue, unless political correctness is only a matter of personal expediency?
For what it is worth, I will respond to my own question.

It is "out there."

There's something going on in politics that I believe has been labeled the Wilder effect, after the first black governor of the United States - Doug Wilder of Virginia. Before the election, polls showed him absolutely stomping the opposition. But on election Tuesday, Wilder won with the slimmest of margins. Political Scientist Professor Larry Sabato commented on the phenomenon.

All people have innate prejudices. It is natural to have them. It is the lower brain acting before the upper brain engages. We are inherently averse to things that aren't familiar, or we subconsciously associate with something bad. It takes the rational brain to overcome our innate prejudices.

The "Wilder effect" is people saying they will vote one way to a pollster, because that's what they think the pollster wants them to say. But when they close the curtain - and elections SHOULD be a personal, private affair - they will vote their heart. If they don't like black people, they won't vote for a Princeton graduate who happens to be black - even if in public they find themselves saying otherwise.

John McCain is 72. My dad's doctor reminds my dad that he's already beating the odds at age 86, so stop with this "how may years do I have?" And he's enjoying life.

By living to a certain age, you are no longer "average." There is a selection bias involved in people living to a certain age. You're not the average of everyone at birth. You are a survivor, and so your expected age at death will be older than "average".

So even though John McCain is likely to live a good long life - long enough to serve well as a president - it's "out there" that he is 72.

People will vote the way they will vote when the curtain closes. The Wilder effect will happen.

McCain is working on perception here. He is balancing yin with yang - even though he really doesn't have to in order to be a good president. He is taking a risk. He's going for the long pass. He's letting youth - combined with two different offices of executive experience - pair with age and wisdom.

It is what it is.

- Bill
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Post by Jason Rees »

Well said, Bill.

Hey, question: The Dems have been ignoring experience as a factor for over a year and a half. Why is it in two days, I've heard more complaints about experience from Democrats than... well, I don't know. Bill Clinton's experience wasn't a big deal for them either. Apparently, we're to believe that experience is a HUGE factor for a VP candidate, but not for the Presidential candidate himself...

Politics.

On a side note, what's Obama going to do about Russia's resumption of empire-building?
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Jason Rees wrote:
On a side note, what's Obama going to do about Russia's resumption of empire-building?
Yep, instead of chasing 7th century desert barbarians, attention should have been placed elsewhere.

Obama is too fixated on pakistan and afganistan,

but the fault lies in bush as well, since it was his decision to chase the desert barbarians, instead of paying attention elsewhere.

Still, Obama should change focus...McCain as well.
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Post by IJ »

Bill, what I said was intentionally funny. If I may tease you, some of your Alaska logic was unintentionally funny :)

Anyhoo, "discriminating" by the basis of age here isn't completely irrational (as it would be for sex, race, religion, orientation, veteran status, disability, and so on). President Reagan, one of our older presidents, was frickin demented in the White House. Dementia skyrockets with age. So does the prevalence of "dead." That is a cause of concern for me. Now while I nevertheless think it would be perfectly acceptable for someone of McCain's age to become President, the point here is that while no President is immortal, he is at higher risk of dying than Obama, and thus we have to even more closely scrutinize the acceptability of the veep.

Another note on melanoma... McCain's have been removed, and he's probably ok. However, melanoma can resurface as a metastatic lesion long after removal. Within the last few years, several organ transplant recipient contracted melanoma from the "cancer free" donor who'd had a melanoma removed 10 years prior. At least one died of the transplanted cancer.

As for Russia's empire building, I think we should hand the matter over to Palin. She was the closest governor to one corner of the nation, albeit it was not the corner in question. Has anyone asked.... what Bush is doing about it? What is McCain going to do about it? I'm not sure there is a good answer... but we should all remember that Russia is the leader state for the Orthodox Civilization, and aside from blowing it up, there's probably little we could do to convince it that it doesn't want a zone of influence rather than NATO members abutting it and negating its missile defense system. Perhaps the prudent thing to do WOULD have been not to irritate Russia with our entreaties to Georgia. It probably plans to hold on to the pro-Russia corners it grabbed for quite a while to show everyone else they're not a dead nation downing shots of vodka while the USA charts the course of the world.
--Ian
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Nobodies perfect:

"What does a V.P. do?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2HSMvqluT0







Investigation dogs Alaska governor

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWi6 ... wD92I9NIO0


By STEVE QUINN – Aug 14, 2008

JUNEAU, Alaska (AP) — Gov. Sarah Palin, a rising young GOP star mentioned as a possible running mate for John McCain, could see her clean-hands reputation damaged by a growing furor over whether she tried to get her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper.

A legislative panel has launched a $100,000 investigation to determine if Palin dismissed Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire the trooper, Mike Wooten. Wooten went through a messy divorce from Palin's sister.

Palin has denied the commissioner's dismissal had anything to do with her former brother-in-law. And she denied orchestrating the dozens of telephone calls made by her husband and members of her administration to Wooten's bosses.

Palin said she welcomes the investigation: "Hold me accountable."

Still, the allegations she abused her office could prove embarrassing for Palin, who got elected in 2006 on an ethics reform platform.

"It could be a bit of a knock on the clean-government issue in Alaska she backed," said Shaun Bowler, a political scientist at the University of California at Riverside.

Referring to Republican Sen. Ted Stevens' recent indictment on corruption charges and the bribery-and-conspiracy scandal that has ensnared five former or current state lawmakers, GOP analyst John Feehery said: "Right now, in Alaska all you have to do is say the word 'investigation' and people are going to be running away."

Nevertheless, Palin is still riding high in Alaska, where she jump-started a project to build a natural gas pipeline and pushed through a plan to send every resident $1,200 from the state's oil-rich treasury to offset high fuel prices.

And based on what has come out so far, some GOP insiders and political scientists said they are not worried about the effect on her prospects for higher office. (Some analysts said that because of her relative inexperience, Palin never had any realistic chance of being picked for vice president.)

"I would be very surprised if Sarah Palin didn't become a larger figure within national politics and I would be very surprised if she wasn't a part of a McCain administration," said Todd Harris, a Republican aide on McCain's 2000 White House bid.

Up to now, GOP insiders and political analysts have marveled at Palin's ascent on the national scene, calling her fearless style, her reform efforts, her energy and her glamour refreshing.

The 44-year-old Palin has not been afraid to take on the Republican Old Guard in Alaska and has tangled with the oil companies over taxes and gas leases. Last year, the former beauty queen posed for a photo shoot in Vogue, and this spring she gave birth to her fifth child, who was found to have Down syndrome.

Palin's problems started a month ago when she fired Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan, saying she wanted the department to go in a new direction.

Monegan has said he does not know why he was fired. But he said pressure to get rid of Wooten had come from those around Palin, including her husband, Todd; her former chief of staff; and other top officials.

In 2005, before Palin ran for office, the Palin family accused Wooten of drinking a beer while in his patrol car, illegal hunting and firing a Taser at his 11-year-old stepson. The Palins also claimed Wooten threatened to kill Sarah Palin's father.

Wooten was suspended over the allegations for five days in 2006 but is still on the job. Monegan refused to comment on Wooten's situation, saying he could not discuss personnel matters.

More recently, Todd Palin said, he took his concerns over the governor's safety directly to Monegan. But he said he never told anyone to fire Wooten.

Wooten has refused to comment.

Attorney General Talis Colberg's conducted an investigation and found that 14 members of the Palin administration — including Colberg himself — made calls to Department of Public Safety officials about Wooten.

In one of those calls, Frank Bailey, director boards and commissions, was tape-recorded as saying: "Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, why on earth hasn't, why is this guy still representing the department?"

On Wednesday, Palin said none of the two dozen or so calls were made at her direction.

Bailey, similarly, said he acted on his own. He said the only time he heard the governor discuss Wooten was during a security briefing shortly after she was elected.

"From that point on I've had a concern this person could fly off the handle and do something terrible to the governor, to her family or to the public," Bailey said.


......................................................................................


Id find dirt on Obama as well, but most of you guys here are conservatives....so you probably already know.


Don't get me started on canadian politics, i hate our politicians just as much. Uh...


Yes, she is a MILF

8)

EDIT:

Smart choice though, Compared to Biden, she's Reagan With Tits.

This was a brilliant move from McCains camp, probably the best he's made.
Last edited by AAAhmed46 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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