We need to bring Reagan back... to fight Japan.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:56 am

So the Romans come along, many different religions, ##### there are people dying and making a big deal about their right to there own spirituality.

Must be real, because people are giving up their lives for this #####.

Conviction, seems kind of scary, might be used against me in my unquenchable search for power over my fellow man.

Maybe we should indulge this idea, and use it to unite us all.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:02 am

Sorry, let's jump back a ways.

A bunch of people enslaved by the Egyptians. Found their way to freedom by way of SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP, later became known as Rabbi's .

Same people helped lay the foundation of the society we know today, including science, economics, arts and wisdom teachings that resonate through the centuries.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:04 am

Desert sands, warfare, rape, tribal law, iniquity, injustice.

Muhammad came along and shut that ##### down, brother!

Next thing you know, Arabia is the center for mathematical evolution.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:10 am

Which brings us to the word "evolution".

After Rome fell to the barbarians, somehow, spiritual teachings survived in Ireland.

People went out on journeys and built abbeys amongst the "barbarians" with only the power and conviction of the word they had learned from their spiritual teachers, and spread a sense of hope and purpose that brought warring parties together in humility, and hope.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:18 am

Thus, the rennaisance and the enlightenment, and thus the idea that there might be something beyond our own ego, and beyond our own feeling of entitlement.

Maybe the great religions of the world have always been about community and wisdom.

Maybe if one wants to talk about the intellect as a special godlike power bestowed on the chosen one, one might like to learn a little about the medicine men and the shamans.

Maybe one might like to reflect on people like Isaac Newton, who was a ##### alchemist, before you open your mouth and attract the censure of the ages.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:49 am

I don't follow any religion, but as a human being I have the solemn obligation to acknowledge the simple FACT that in the time before Christ, I would not be able to communicate my thoughts to you without the fear of crucifixion.

It's really kind of silly, but I challenge any atheistic intellectual scientist superman to have even 1/200000000000000 of the impact on the evolution of human thought and behavior that the teachings of Christ, Buddha or Mohammed have had.

And maybe that's what it all comes down to in the end.

Maybe TSD Guy and Ian are just a little jealous that their brains aren't mapped out and replicated for the rest of humanity to blindly follow.

Sorry, but I don't need a guru, dude.

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:45 am

I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it to the death. Also, lay off the heroin.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:54 am

You will not defend what I have to say, because it doesn't mean anything to you, and I am not on heroin.

Dumb ##### #####.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:56 am

I am on sangria.

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:05 am

You are an interesting character.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:12 am

And so are you.

Maybe the only difference between us is that I would really defend your right to free speech, unto death.

You would rather prattle on about politics and religion.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:16 pm

Valkenar wrote:
Bill Glasheen wrote:
Religion isn't about facts; it's primarily about faith.

Maybe it should be primarily about faith, but the fact is that people in this country let their faith inform their facts. Evolution being one obvious example. The only reason people don't believe in evolution is because it conflicts with their faith (or at least they think it does).

Good job painting with a broad brush there, Justin. Let's just throw all people of all faiths into one strawman belief system that you can dismiss with one pimp slap.

Try harder, dude. I know for a fact that you have it in you.

- Bill

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:34 pm

Who cares if there are reasonable religious folks? They're not the ones causing problems. There ARE people that believe humans rode on dinosaurs, that believe in creationism, and people that let their faith inform their facts. You can try all you like, you can't defend that. And I suspect you wouldn't want to, Bill.

When only FOURTY PERCENT of this country believes in evolution, that's not a broad brush.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:54 pm

TSDguy wrote:
, that believe in creationism, and people that let their faith inform their facts. You can try all you like, you can't defend that. And I suspect you wouldn't want to, Bill.

I find wealth redistribution indefensible.

Good on you that you can find something quirky that a few people think and cast their entire belief systems into the trash. You must feel like such an intellectual.

Meanwhile, I have to put up with morons who think Al Gore is a scientist.

TSDguy wrote:
When only FOURTY PERCENT of this country believes in evolution, that's not a broad brush.

I worry a lot more about people who think classic Darwinian evolution is the way we all evolved from cellular organisms. Those people THINK they know the real science. It's a lot more complicated than that. No wonder to me that the average person is confused.

I also worry a lot more about the fact that US students do schitty on math and science tests. Religion is a red herring. The real problem is poor teaching and poor learning. Our students score among the worst amongst all industrial countries. This is true not just at the high school level, but all the way back to grades 4 and 8. There's no excuse for that.

One need only watch The Tonight Show's Jay Walking to see how stupid the average person can be.

Bill

Valkenar · Post by **Valkenar** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:43 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote: Good job painting with a broad brush there, Justin. Let's just throw all people of all faiths into one strawman belief system that you can dismiss with one pimp slap.

I'm not dismissing all religions or everyone who believes in religion. If you want to quibble over my omission of the word "some" go ahead, but my essential point stands. It's incorrect to dismiss religion's role in fomenting ignorance when there absolutely is a direct connection. One third of this country doesn't believe in evolution because of religious teachings. That doesn't mean it's stupid or ignorant to have religious beliefs, but it does mean that religion isn't innocent here.