your best drills for distance and timing?

[jorvik]

Shana
I was trying to distinuish between dojo techniques and what works in a streetfight/ self defence situation...Van speaks of this often on his forum.there is a difference, not related to what specific martial art you do but more to your mindset......I personnally don't have a favourite technique but I do know stuff that works very well and also a mindset......something I learned many years ago from my first Sensei.....one of the things he said was that folks will throw a right punch and then a left.......but why do this if the right is having the desired effect ....much better to keep throwing rights...it's really the CQB approach developed in WW2.you have a limited number of techniques and you use them aggrresively..maybe you just use a hammer fist and constantly rain blows down with that.if you do Uechi then it could be boshinkens and backfists.....You talk of "Warrior mindset" these techniques are borrowed from real warriors and it worked for them.so I favour simplicity....even when I do Wing-Chun.limited techniques done as fast and hard and aggressively as I can.....doesn't make me a warrior or a streetfight though............I'm still a little fat guy in a suit

[Van Canna]

There is a great deal of talk here about street fighting, and I believe that is a reality we should all be aware of; however, it is not a huge part of my current reality and environment. So, my main goal is to be capable to protect myself if needed. Secondary is to develop a warrior mentality and body.

Good points Shana. “Street fighting” as used in discussions is a misnomer, as it connotes something other than ‘self protection’ …something that may come our way despite our avoidance efforts. And when it comes…self protection_ may define_ physical, emotional or both.

And if the time does come …and it may indeed as it does to many of us…you are correct when you say that you will need a sound body that won't fail you when needed... you also need to cultivate sound ‘emotional’ and tactical ‘structures’ along with the sound body…then ‘put it all away’ without obsessing over it.

These aspects of self protection have been bantered about on the forums forever with opinions galore.

What it boils down to is this: The sound body requires much work with a healthy lifestyle, defeat of obesity_ smoking, and alcohol consumption. The sound body also calls for aerobic capacity training on regular basis so that it won’t quit on you suddenly under the load of extreme stress you will feel when someone is trying to hurt you bad or kill you.

Simple power delivery strokes are essential more so than the myriad of ‘techniques’ we seem to dream about when we talk about how many styles we have studied etc., a common mistake, because it will not matter much.

To remember in ‘self protection’ is that when it happens, especially for women, it will come from a larger, stronger, vicious opponent, possibly multiples, and most likely armed.

Cultivating ‘self protection’ concepts requires, in addition, the assimilation of the ‘predator’ qualities…things that some people can and some cannot.

You want to go through life in an ‘easy going, manner…without fear but with a deep conviction that when it comes and it cannot be avoided, you switch from victim to predator.


So what are the essential components of a ‘predator’ you seek to ‘instill’ and then tuck away until needed?

To say ‘I will have no fear’ is BS …because fear will be there naturally and as a weapon to be harnessed.

The ‘tooling’ we all like to ‘wag’ in our discussions…must comprise empty hands and weaponry easily obtainable and carried on the person or in unobtrusive bags/pouches that deceive.

But the most important predatory concepts you need to determine if they are for you to develop are the following:

1. Righteous indignation
2. Instant action
3. Correct action
4. Explosive power in every move you make
5. Decisiveness under pressure
6. Coolness under pressure
7. Ruthlessness
8. Controlled ferocity

~~

So when it comes and you cannot avoid it…feel the fear…but let it catapult you into ‘Predatory mode’…

…making sure all of your ‘tooling’ has the brand of the 8 concepts above.

I talk from experience here, having survived a multiple armed attack once, leaving one terribly disfigured and the group horrified into stillness.

[Shana Moore]

Good points Shana. “Street fighting” as used in discussions is a misnomer, as it connotes something other than ‘self protection’ …something that may come our way despite our avoidance efforts. And when it comes…self protection_ may define_ physical, emotional or both.

I think this is covered in your current thread on silliness in the MAs. I think it sounds impressive to talk about street fighting because it puts you into a realm that others rarely traverse, so one can walk around and puff out their chest (which actually looks kinda silly, truly). But as your thread notes, we can't forget that sparring in the dojo or in tournament is really just practice for those times when you might need it. Most folks, I believe, will have little need to fully utilize their training outside of sanctioned training or competition, but it never hurts to be prepared.

What it boils down to is this: The sound body requires much work with a healthy lifestyle, defeat of obesity_ smoking, and alcohol consumption. The sound body also calls for aerobic capacity training on regular basis so that it won’t quit on you suddenly under the load of extreme stress you will feel when someone is trying to hurt you bad or kill you.

Fortunately for me, this is one of the reasons I took up martial arts, as a way to combat my weight and diabetes. I've still got a long road to travel toward the healthy and sound body I should have, but I find that the physical and mental discipline of Uechi has certainly helped me in the right direction.

Again, I think many of us train for the joy, knowledge, and health of it, and a large majority of folks don't live the healthy lifestyle they know they should in order to be their strongest selves. Can we truly call ourselves martial artist when we are fat and out of shape? Is it the spirit of person that defines a martial artist or ability?

Based on the reports from summer camp, I'd say that's not so easily defined.

To remember in ‘self protection’ is that when it happens, especially for women, it will come from a larger, stronger, vicious opponent, possibly multiples, and most likely armed.

With all due respect, I really think that's too narrowly stated, Vann. While most women are usually going to be smaller than their opponent, a large number of men will be as well. That, and women often fight for different motivations and goals, and can sometimes be more vicious because of it. I'm not going to go out and pick a fight just to prove I have large...um...kahunas, but if you threaten my baby daughter, you will likely pull back a nub, and I would be willing to die to protect her and/or assure she gets away safely.

As a culture, we have this belief that women, because they are the "fairer sex" are naturally weaker and smaller and should be protected. While I think that is true for some women, I also think it's a bit chauvinistic or perhaps wishful thinking to believe it only applies to women.

Particularly in today's world, there is a LOT of
overweight, or simply non-active and self-absorbed individuals that wouldn't have the first clue how to defend themselves without a game controller in hand. These are the same folks that walk around with ear buds in their ears and are completely unaware of their surroundings. They are in a techno bubble and believe this keeps them safe.

Now, I will be the FIRST to admit that I love my palm phone and the things I can do on it and my pc, but I do not use it to the exclusion of my surroundings or my safety.

The point I'm trying to make - -as I try to reign in my mini rant - - is that it's an individual issue, not a woman only issue, that your opponent will usually be larger or stronger than you.

And in the case of multiple attackers...gender really doesn't matter as it is simply a matter of numbers vs. attitude and skill. As you noted in your last post, a quick and violent response can sometimes offset numerical superiority...but again, this was attitude and skill...not gender. And, as I noted above, male or female, if you threaten our children...all bets are off....at least, I would HOPE so!

But the most important predatory concepts you need to determine if they are for you to develop are the following:

1. Righteous indignation
2. Instant action
3. Correct action
4. Explosive power in every move you make
5. Decisiveness under pressure
6. Coolness under pressure
7. Ruthlessness
8. Controlled ferocity

Okay, I can understand 2-8. They all make logical and tactical sense to me. But #1 seems kinda self-defeating. Perhaps it is how I am defining the term? Can you clarify this one?

Sorry for the rant, but thanks for the good discussion!

[Van Canna]

Good points Shana.

Io had no intent of getting into ‘gender’ with my post. Perhaps it was poorly phrased.

Fact remains that, generally, when women are assaulted by men, except in the rare circumstances that you point out; they will be at greater risk than the opposite.

Men are usually stronger by nature, and this is from a general point of view.

The reason why I always recommend my Female students to develop the predatory qualities I outlined.

My views have been partially ….heavily influenced by my investigative work regarding some awful rape cases, one in particular, where a Boston Prostitute was raped by someone working in a traveling circus.

And she had a reputation of being a ‘tough cookie’ _

Generally, in a physical confrontation, my investigations showed that men always got the upper hand, even if they were smaller than the woman, due to superior natural strength and abject vicious intent.

Any man, who descends to the low level of attacking a woman, is a vicious person.

A woman must possess and cultivate the predatory instincts I outlined to improve her chances of survival.

Another rape case I investigated:

A woman asleep in her Apt. bedroom in the Back Bay suddenly awakened to find a man standing by her bed masturbating with one hand_ holding a big knife with the other_ while looking at a photo of the woman and her boyfriend on the night table, until she awakened.

We determined that she had had some ‘Martial arts’ training, but in a statement to the police, she said she had become paralyzed by abject fear and could not move, other than to plead ‘I am dying of cancer…please don’t hurt me’…

His answer “Then you will enjoy what I am about to do to you_ you are dying anyway”

She was raped seven times as the rapist even got into bed with her.

‘Righteous indignation’…is the trigger that launches response action and summons the rest of the outlined components.

“How dare you do this to me” …and anger follows…an emotion that will trigger combative action and lead to survival.

Hope this helps.

[Van Canna]

http://tinyurl.com/m8afpt

[Shana Moore]

Van,
Thanks for the link, it had some very good information/reminders. I think the man used in the example supports both our points:

a young man who seldom made eye contact with anyone, who spoke in a very low voice and who shuffled his feet as he walked with his head down. Being smaller than average and a racial minority in an ethnic neighborhood he had been assaulted many times by bullies and he was hospitalized from these attacks.

As you said, it's about attitude. I realize your examples were to make the point that confrontations can be brutal, violent, and emotionally ugly...in other words, the very definition of rape for any situation, etc. I'm assuming you used these particular examples to make the point about gender discrepancies, as sexual abuse is largely (not completely) a gender biased assault.

Please understand, I am not disputing that women who are assaulted by men, are typically going to be smaller, and have a strength disadvantage. That is why attitude, speed, and skill are so very important for a female karateka.

The point I was trying to make,and is perhaps better stated in the link you posted, is that most attackers are looking for the easy target. Bullies are looking for the person who shies away and appears less prepared to fight back. Gender is not the primary determinant in their mental "interview". As in the example on the link, it's as much about attitude and presentation than anything else. Of course, we're talking the normal predator, not the psychopath (which is SUCH an outlier in normal society that we can disregard for this particular conversation).

The other point I was trying to make is that there is a large portion of the general populace, gender completely set aside, that is simply not mentally or physically prepared for any type of confrontation. They are tuned in to thier personal frequencies and fantasies. We like to believe that training will better prepare us for assault, but I suspect none of us will really know until it actually happens to us.

As an aside, I have been assaulted, and I now know what you mean by righteous indignation. It's the realization of, "I do NOT deserve this! BACK off! How DARE you!". It's the reason people leave abusing spouses, lovers, and parents everyday. For some, it takes time to build to that point. For some, it is simply ingrained in them as who they are or how they have been trained. for some, it's simply a "been there, not again" realization.

So, in essence, we are agreeing about the importance of attitude and presentation...but perhaps a slight disagreement on how prevalent gender is in most confrontations. We could argue what is basically a nature/nuture arguement until we are both blue in the face...the fact is we agree more than we disagree..and that is enough.

[Van Canna]

Shana, as always...great comments...much to think about.

I have always written that all opinions are valid...and mostly.... they are colored by individual experiences.

I agree that generally attackers will look for the easy target…man or woman…gender notwithstanding.

But there is a very insidious enemy of women out there, who is insecure, cannot find a mate, try as he might…he is constantly seething from rejection… and he harbors ‘get even’ thoughts.

This is of course the realm of ‘violence against women’ that is perpetrated daily for a number of deep resentments difficult to even fathom.

While, generally, men are proportionally assaulted in larger numbers than women…

…Women are subject to sexual assault, in addition to other reasons…something that men, generally are not as rule.

And such attacks are awful…it is the ‘things’ that such attackers do to women that reflect a deep hate for the gender.

The reason why I am so careful with teaching ‘self defense’ to women…since they will be subjected to a certain ‘beastly activity’ in attacks…that must always be taken into consideration while training.

The things that were done to a young mother, while her little girl looked on, in a building stairway, Springfield Mass_ by two men who entered through a back door with a defective lock, I will not mention… but will give you just what they used for starter….they bit her nipples off….because…according to her testimony in my investigation …one attacker told her ‘You bitch have no business having such big tits”_ go figure.

They raped her and beat her brutally, and warned her that if she told the police anything they would kill her little girl.


In my work, I have been involved in catastrophic liability occurrences from every walk of life, including stalking and unspeakable acts of violence against women, to include violence in the work place specifically targeting women, out of resentment for ‘female authority’_



In one sad case, one of dozens like it, this loser had been dumped by his girl.

So one day, he is walking the streets of Boston, and he notices the cashier in the booth of the Paramount movie house.

She resembles his ex…so he pulls a blade….goes around the booth…and don’t you know it…the cashier had left the door open/unlocked.

So he opens the door, and without a word, he stabs her repeatedly in the liver. She survived the attack physically….but was emotionally destroyed.

[Van Canna]

Here is a great book on women’s safety by Darren and Beth Laur

http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca ... fety-book/

The authors, Darren and Beth Laur are no strangers to the world of self-defense and safety awareness. Darren is a Sergeant with the Victoria Police department in Canada and specializes in safety awareness and self-defense strategies.

He has trained all levels of law enforcement officers, both in Canada and the United States, and has written dozens of articles on the subject (we have published him three times). Beth Laur manages Personal Protection Systems, (a company she and Darren operate) and teaches many of their awareness and self-defense programs.


Although this book was designed to be used within the framework of Canadian law, its relevance is global. The United States is heading in that politically correct direction and much of Europe is already there. No matter where you live, the information in this book can save your life.


Total Awareness is packed with hundreds of interesting examples and useful tips. Besides addressing the everyday physical assaults we’re all familiar with such as: environmental awareness, muggings, sexual assaults, home invasions, and the law regarding self-protection; the authors also tackle the more unfamiliar territory of “Fraud Crimes.”

These include bank and telemarketing fraud, Internet schemes, identity fraud and medical and home improvement fraud. The book also has very extensive sections on home and vehicle safety.

One of the many well thought out chapters examines “The basics…When You’re Confronted.” It reviews in detail: escapes, the importance of not leaving the primary crime scene, creating noise and attracting attention, et hoc genus omne. This is absolutely the latest and best thinking on the subject.


Total awareness covers more material than you thought possible in such a compact book. There’s no padding here so you don’t have to plod through lengthy paragraphs to educe the information.

The book is written like a step-by-step guide with everything bulleted for easy reading. Realfighting will start using this book as an accompanying class text for The Realfighting Awareness Class. This book is a must-have !!!!

[Shana Moore]

another book for the reading list! Thanks Vann....

and now...we kinda got off topic. sorry folks!

I think we can all agree that timing and distancing have some strong import...as well as attitude. There have been some great posts on good drills and practices you can do to develop good distance and timing....any other thoughts?

[robb buckland]

The practice of rythum creates one thing , timing .

These drills can be practiced to develop three types of movement .
1. stationary posture ...use footwork onlyto step into the pocket.
2. Line movement...one half steps forward to fire and the partner takes half step back on each count .
3. Free sparring.....


Their are 5 main attributes in the order they should be developed (1).rythum ,(2). timing , (3) judgement (4)speed , (5) accuracy.