Is a cigar just a cigar?

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:14 pm

Quote
"Where did the circle go? "

Irimi means "To enter".....FWIW I was taught that the sword is pressed against your opponents neck as you turn....not like Nishio does it....but you are all over the place once again Bill

first you use Nishio, then you use somebody who practices Sport Aikido

...in your mind they may be the same, but to folks who practice EITHER of these martial arts they are not, In trad Aikido you have either " Irimi" or
" Tenkan" or what are referred to as positive and negative throws.........in sport you don't..a very bad example to prove a spurious point

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:26 pm

jorvik wrote:
you are all over the place once again Bill

Indeed I am. Thank you for the compliment.

I didn't stay in your nice neat box, did I?

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:46 pm

Well if that's want you want then go for it

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:28 pm

jorvik wrote:
Irimi means "To enter"

Yes it does.

Tenshin in the Uechi hojoundo means to shift. There are three tenshin exercises. All have a circle as an integral part of the the movement.

What I find interesting when watching people do the three tenshin exercises (all w/o partner) is the timing of their circles with the stepping. Almost everyone does the stepping and the arm circle sequentially.

Is that wrong? No... not if you think a new bad guy is coming from behind or from the side.

Is it the most common and practical way to do it? Not if you're facing the bad guy and you want to apply the move. If that is the case, then the footwork and arm circle must be done simultaneously as opposed to sequentially.

And like the irimi example above, you're not really interested in attacking the weapon. The circle is done to feel and intercept while you turn the corner on the bad guy.

What you start with is the same ingredients. What you get are two extremely different things, depending upon how you put those ingredients together. But... they are the same two ingredients.

- Bill

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:36 pm

Jeff Brooks wrote:
If we move properly in response to incoming force it is possible to simultaneously (in a single movement)

1. Reroute the incoming energy past our target region,
2. Reposition our body just outside the range of attack,
3. Off balance the opponent,
4. Damage the opponent’s attacking personal weapon (limb), and
5. Execute a counter and/or set up a counter attack that is launched without any extra motion of your body.

To do this we have to understand the use of the full body in movement. If we move the body as parts – an arm here, a step there – we will not maximize our ability to move effectively.

Easier said than done.

If we do A and then B in tenshin, we get one thing. If we do A-B as an integrated movement, we get something entirely different.

But we're still doing B (the circle) in both cases. In the first example (sequentially), B is a block. In the second, it's not.

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:50 pm

Not quite right

............Japanese martial arts are based primarily on the sword.
Chinese martial arts are based primarily on the open hand........it's amusing when folks can interrelate the two

,,,,,,but in reality nonsensical
it's like when folks mix all the things they aspire to together and think that they have found Nirvana.....coz it makes them feel better

...................like I do Yoga/pilates...or Tai-Chi Yoga or Buddhist/Tai -Chi.....hows about " Raw food vegitarianism"..and that is on the marketright now........and as a vegetarian ......I say Yeah ,Well ok.Go for it if it floats your boat

.....so go for it Bill

and to some folks you will appear cool and of the moment, on the money,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but to others you won't

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:56 pm

So Chinese can only move one way and Japanese the other?

Got it.

Note to self: Study up on my genetics...

jorvik wrote:
Japanese martial arts are based primarily on the sword.
Chinese martial arts are based primarily on the open hand

Wow!!

I mean... WOW!!!

Just out of curiosity... Can you tell me whether or not a white man can jump?

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:16 pm

No Bill..... A certain type of Japanese ( i.e. a martial artist ) moves with a sword

...A certain type of Chinese ( i.e. a martial artist ) moves with his hands

....nobody does backflips or plays basketball .......and guess what you move differently with a sword than you do with an open hand...kinda hard to grasp .,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I know

....but try to keep up with me on this one

( sprinklings of satire here )

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:19 pm

Choy Li Fut (蔡李佛) is a Chinese martial arts system founded in 1836 by Chan Heung 陳享.[1] Choy Li Fut was named to honor the Buddhist monk Choy Fook 蔡褔 (Cai Fu) who taught him Choy Gar, Li Yau-San 李友山 who taught him Li Gar, and his uncle Chan Yuen-Wu 陳遠護 who taught him Fut Gar, to honor the Buddha from which the art was named.

It combines techniques from various Northern and Southern Chinese kung-fu systems[2]; the powerful arm and hand techniques from the Shaolin animal forms[3] from the South, combined with the extended, circular movements, twisting body, and agile footwork that characterizes Northern China's martial arts. It is considered an external style, combining soft and hard techniques as well as incorporating a wide range of weapons as part of its curriculum [4]. Choy Li Fut is an effective self defense system[5] particularly noted for defense against multiple attackers[6]. It contains a wide variety of techniques, including long and short range punches, kicks, sweeps and take downs, pressure point attacks, joint locks, and grappling.[7]

***

Having both Northern and Southern Chinese influences gives Choy Li Fut a wide variety of weapons in its arsenal. Originally, there were 40 weapons in the system of Choy Li Fut. After many years of teaching, some past masters added different forms and other weapons into the system. Now there are 52 traditional weapons[16].

One weapon that is exclusive to Choy Li Fut is the Nine Dragon Trident created by the Founder Chan Heung 陳享. This weapon was designed to shred any part of the opponent with which it might come into contact. The many hooks and blades can seize an opponent's weapon and, with one twist, rip it from his hands. The Nine-Dragon Trident (Gau Lung Dai Chah) 九龍大叉 is known as the "King" of all weapons. [17][18]

- Cai li fo

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:22 pm

Jujutsu (柔術, jūjutsu?), ("jujitsu") literally meaning the "art of softness," or "way of yielding" is a collective name for Japanese martial art styles including unarmed and armed techniques. Jujutsu evolved among the samurai of feudal Japan as a method for defeating an armed and armored opponent without weapons. Due to the ineffectiveness of striking against an armored opponent, the most efficient methods for neutralizing an enemy took the form of pins, joint locks, and throws. These techniques were developed around the principle of using an attacker's energy against him, rather than directly opposing it.[1]

Jujutsu

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:46 pm

Don't go silly on me Bill

..........choy lee fut has a myriad of forms....so what? WingChun has three, so does White eyebrow,
Ju jitsu doesn't exist

.......it never has .check out the writings of Donn F Draeger...Japanese martial arts have never existed without recourse to weapons.What you have is a " Ryu-Ha".....which has weapons and defences against weapons. All new stuff derived from Judo and is not realy truly Budo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d6xLLli ... annel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrIsK1MBTNg

You see Bill I am a martialist.......not a martial artist....I have never had a style

.......I just learn from folks who are better than me...and there are loads of them

...........if you can empty your cup it gets better every day...if you can't well then you are just a " Martial artist"

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:52 pm

jorvik wrote:
choy lee fut has a myriad of forms

Indeed it does. And there's nothing "silly" about it. Bruce Lee used to sing the praises of Choy Li Fut - particularly in its utility for multiple opponents.

Given it has at least 40 weapon forms, are you going to insist that it's "based primarily on the empty hand"?

jorvik wrote:
Ju jitsu doesn't exist

Umm... Got it!

Your mind works in interesting ways, Ray.

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:56 pm

Quote
"Umm... Got it!"

Get off your high horse Bill and read Draeger a US scholar who devoted his life to martial arts

Quote
"
Given it has at least 40 weapon forms, are you going to insist that it's "based primarily on the empty hand"?
2

Well isn't Uechi Chinese ?....where are the weapons forms

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:59 pm

jorvik wrote:
Well isn't Uechi Chinese ?

Uechi was born and bred Okinawan.

Bob Campbell describes it best when he says "Uechi Ryu is a Chinese style in Okinawan clothes." That is what it is.

Uechi Ryu is the collection of Kanbun Uechi's experiences in both Okinawa and China, combined with the material added by his son and his committee.

Currently there are no weapon forms that are "Uechi" weapon forms. But many Uechi masters (e.g. Gushi, Yonamine, Thompson, etc.) are also either kobudo masters or practitioners. That's a little of this and a little of that. Many (including and especially Yonamine) have adapted the kobudo forms so that they use the same fundamentals as Uechi karate. Two specific examples are Hamahiga no tonfa and Tzukenshitahaku no sai. They are both very, very old forms. But I learned them from Uechi masters, and my execution has a distinctly "Uechi" flavor.

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:06 pm

Awe Gee sorry Bill..but I though that Uechi went to China to learn kung fu with a guy called Sushiwa or somesuch......my bad