Ti, Okianwan Karate, Pivoting for Power

[jorvik]

~As I have been recently reminded this is a Woman's forum...........soooooooo you may be interested by this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwO5-ji ... re=related

sorry
here it is with subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ0iaMx7 ... ture=email

[Bill Glasheen]

Nice video, Ray.

A side note... It's a shame that the person who did the subtitles didn't have any knowledge of the Japanese Language. The constant references to "ti" should actually have been "te" as highlighted by the 3 characters in the film at 0:43-0:48 (Oki nawa te). Te as in China hand (to de), empty hand (kara te), Naha hand (Naha te), etc.

I like her. Please give me her address. I'll send her a plane ticket and we can play over on this side of the pond. .

I like the idea of the suspended fishing weight a certain distance behind the makiwara striking pad. Somebody obviously understands the concept of a penetrating strike. You don't get to cut loose like that when doing partner work.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

"Ti" is the common pronunciation of that character in Hogen, Okinawan dialect, the romanization is not in error.

She's been featured in several videos and is quite strong. She's also gotten more fluid over the past several years.

[jorvik]

I loved the video, I liked the good manners and respectfulness, and the nice old dojo
Quote
"She's been featured in several videos and is quite strong"
it's always hard to tell anything from a video . I liked the makiwara and also the punching paper...I'm gonna give both of them a try , maybe give me some idea of how good she is

That guys is her Dad BTW

this is the style
http://www.shinjinbukan.com/

I wonder where the "Ti" fits in .....is it actual technique or concepts

[Dana Sheets]

Well, you can find the sempi's opinions in his glossary:

http://www.shinjinbukan.com/dictionary_T.html#tenshin

転身

てんしん

tenshin

Glossary Category: Okinawa Karate Dō/Techniques , Shinjinbukan/Syllabus

Lit. Change direction or course. Tenshin is one of the three basic elements of Okinawa Ti. It is used to generate an effortless and powerful body movement and acceleration. One of the trademarks of the Shinjinbukan School is the use of tenshin to create an immense thrust for each tsuki (hand strike) & keri (foot strike).

Tenshin is commonly defined as "Body Displacement". This is a very superficial definition, because tenshin is more than just moving from point A to point B. Tenshin could be compared to the breath of life: "Without air, we can't live. And without tenshin we can't move or use our body efficiently". In fact, tenshin is directly connected to the use breathing techniques. Therefore, a more wholistic definition of tenshin would be: "The most efficient method of body mechanics used to generate body movement".

Furthermore, according to Onaga Kaichō, "Our bodies do not move back and forth, but left or right." The reasoning behind this approach is that we do not have four legs. So, we do not have front legs or back legs, we only have left and right.

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http://www.shinjinbukan.com/dictionary_T.html#ti
手

ティー

Ti

Glossary Category: Shinjinbukan/System

Lit. Hand(s). Pronounced Tchi. The ancient indigenous Okinawan martial art from which preceded modern karate. Ti is the essence of Karate and the foundation of the Shinjinbukan curriculum.
See Te , Shuri Te , Shuri Ti , Sui Di , Naha Te , Nafua Te , Naha Ti , Nafua Ti , Tomari Te , Tomari Ti


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手組

ティー グミ

Ti Gumi

Glossary Category: Shinjinbukan/System

Lit. Sparring. The term Ti Gumi is "suggested" for use with beginner students in order to move away from Kumite by introducing basic ideas from Kakie and Iri Kumi. My basic (simple) definition of Ti Gumi is "A type of Ippon Kumite confined within three concentric circles of approximately 3, 2 and 1 meters in diameter. Ti Gumi only begins once the two opponents hook their arms from any of the three basic points of contact:
1) Inner wrist contact
2) Palm forward hooking from the outside wrist
3) Palm forward hooking from the inside wrist"

What is the historical context to use the term Ti Gumi? In the early 20th century, several authors described a free-style sparring in Okinawan Karate with the term Ti Gumi. In Uchinaguchi (the Okinawan dialect), the word Ti Gumi is written with the same Kanji (Chinese characters) as Kumite, but in reverse order.

Why use Ti Gumi? Modern sports Karate is focused on tournament fighting and kata competitions, with no real integration of the muscle mechanics or the curriculum. On the contrary, the Shinjinbukan curriculum integrates Ti into all aspects of training: conditioning, katas, machiwara, etc. This integration is essential in the study and application of Kakie and Iri Kumi. However, this could be too difficult to achieve even with the guidance of a qualified teacher. Therefore, Ti Gumi could be used as a teaching method for beginners and instructors from other styles who need to bridge the gap between sports Karate and pure Ti.

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手術

ティージュツ

Ti Jutsu

Glossary Category: Okinawa Karate Dō/Ryūha

Lit. The Art or skill of the hand. Ti Jutsu is a generic term used during the early 20th century, when the term Karate had not yet been adopted by the Okinawans.
See Tōdi

唐手

トゥデ

Tōde (alt. Tode, Toude)

Glossary Category: Okinawa Karate Dō/Ryūha

Lit. The Tang (China) hand.
See Tōdi

唐手術

トデジュツ

Tōde Jutsu (alt. Tode Jutsu, Toude Jutsu)

Glossary Category: Okinawa Karate Dō/Ryūha

Lit. The Art or skill of the Tang (China) hand.
See Tōdi

唐手

トゥーディ

Tōdi (alt. Toudi, Todi)

Glossary Category: Okinawa Karate Dō/Ryūha

Lit. The Tang (China) hand. The Okinawans used the term Tōdi instead of Karate before their martial arts was introduced to mainland Japan. Since the word Tōdi means Chinese Hand, it had to be changed to the name karate, using more “modern” characters: 空手. This was more than a departure in terminology, but part of the standarization and cultural changes of the Meiji Period (1868 — 1912). These socio-political changes brought Okinawan culture & government under Japan and away from China's sphere of influence.

[jorvik]

Wow...............there is a lot to take in there

Quote
"Our bodies do not move back and forth, but left or right." .that alone is something to think about.
I think that to really get a grasp of this one would need to train with the school..........it's just to difficult to form an opinion based on a quick clip ( although I am very impressed), love the culture and the history side though

words from master Onaga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqIL_Wx4 ... re=related

one of the things that really impresses me with Michiko is that she looks so ordinary and inoffensive, as does her Dad.......I've met folks like that, my Sifu is like that .....we have had big bad guys coming into the club, who think that they are uber tough........and they just don't realise what you can come up against, it's such a paradigm shift from what you are used to or expect,they have too many ideas and preconceptions and that is what would defeat them

[Bill Glasheen]

Dana

I figured it may have to do with Hogan as opposed to "the king's Japanese" pronunciation of the words. To-may-to, to-mah-to, and all that. I just found it curious that a show which appeared to be in Japanese would be using a Hogan pronunciation of 手. But it's all good I suppose. Like... y'all don't speak like me anyhow, you know?

The other information you posted was interesting. I tend not to dive into the deep end with too much of the martial prose. Everyone finds a way to express what's right in front of them. My first Uechi instructor came from Harvard with an English degree. When explaining difficult concepts, he'd wax poetic. Literally. It worked for him.

No surprise that this young superstar moves well. We only see so much with the makiwara demonstration. But she shows a high degree of physical intelligence.

- Bill

[jorvik]

Dana
I figured it was some thing like that, Hogen is different from standard Japanese right ......either way I loved what was said

[Bill Glasheen]

I had to check on the correct spelling of Hogan. Go figure...

In doing so, I found the following. (Japan Update)

Okinawa dialect now taught to policemen
Date Posted: 2006-07-14

Okinawa [police] are reaching out to communicate with elderly citizens whose knowledge of Japanese becomes muddled when they’re hurt or confused.

Urasoe Police Station is taking a pro-active approach, and is teaching its officers to speak Hogan, the Okinawa dialect. Officials say few Okinawans under age 35 know the traditional language. The move came after a young officer encountered a senior citizen wandering in a dangerous street, and she couldn’t understand him. Repeated questioning showed the elderly woman couldn’t understand much Japanese.

There are 2,500 Okinawa Prefectural Police currently serving the communities, with six percent under age 20. Another 24% of the force is 20-30, and 27% are age 30-40. Officials say the training is essential for good community service.

The phrase ‘Thank You’ is arrigatou in Japanese, but niheedeebill in local dialect. ‘Welcome’ is Irasshaimase in Japanese and mensorey in Hogan Okinawa dialect.

Senior police officials say they’ll have dozens of officers going through the dialect training in coming months, and predict it will improve community relations as they deal with missing senior citizens [and] drunken seniors.

So there you go. My excuse is that I'm under the age of 35. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

- Bill

[MikeK]

I'm going to take a guess and say that Naihanchi is Shinjibukan's core kata. More than the punch watch her hips and how she pivots her foot on her heel to let the hips move. A lot of information in a short video.

[Bill Glasheen]

Good call, Mike. There was something about the way she was moving when hitting the pad... Indeed that's it!

- Bill

[MikeK]

Letting the foot move on it's heel is something that most karate people don't do and they end up restricting their hips. I learned the trick from a friend who does Tai Chi and use it a lot when working in close.

BTW, Thanks for the link Ray.

[Bill Glasheen]

Letting the foot move on it's heel is something that most karate people don't do and they end up restricting their hips. I learned the trick from a friend who does Tai Chi and use it a lot when working in close.

BTW, Thanks for the link Ray.

I think it's less about outcome and more about process preference, Mike.

When I was in my exploratory years, I picked up the short yang form of taiji from Robert Smith (et al). We used to do runs up to the DC area on Saturday (from Charlottesville), and then we'd train ourselves during the week. Indeed there is a tendency to shift on the heels in taiji that you generally do not see in karate.

I quit doing the yang form for two reasons.

First... they (Smith et al) didn't do enough push hands. Without push hands, you're just doing an old fart exercise. I also was doing aikido at the time. The latter scratched my soft-style itch AND allowed me to apply the principles over and over again with a real human body (or in some cases, many bodies at the same time).

Second... I had a difficult time resolving the pivot on ball-of-foot vs. heel thing. At a certain point, *I* found that I needed to fish or cut bait on this one. Instead of buying into the whole taiji thing (absent any push hands), I instead decided to remain an on-the-toes fighter. It meshed much better with my Uechi style - particularly with the toe kicks and the big movement in Sanseiryu.

The things I liked most in yang form taiji can be replaced with toe movement kata.

The first is geikisai kata - one of the Goju instructional forms. If ever we get together, I'll show you both kata and bunkai on this form. There are some really cool things hidden in there...

The second can be found in this performance of Sochin kata. Now most people will be enamored by the "snappiness" of this person's form. Forget the arms; watch the hip. It's all about his hips. And then look at his feet, and see how he can make it work by moving on balls-of-feet. I am so enamored with the way he does this that I'm thinking of making this a requirement for my advanced students before they do Uechi Sanseiryu kata. Most people in Uechi don't move their hips like this gentleman does. But they should!!!!

- Bill

[MikeK]

Second... I had a difficult time resolving the pivot on ball-of-foot vs. heel thing. At a certain point, *I* found that I needed to fish or cut bait on this one. Instead of buying into the whole taiji thing (absent any push hands), I instead decided to remain an on-the-toes fighter. It meshed much better with my Uechi style - particularly with the toe kicks and the big movement in Sanseiryu.

It's not really an either one or the other thing Bill. When moving forward I use my toes and the ball of the foot. One reason is that I'm feeling the terrain and the other is I don't want to open my center. When doing a roll back it's a shifting rather than stepping so I'll let the heel pivot to open the hips. Also weight distribution comes into for which pivot to use.

One thing I'm looking at in Ray's video is that I think when he says "curl your toes" I think he may be refering to locking the feet to the ground and not the cat stance she uses. While the video is shot and edited to focus on the host and the girl's upper body, and not where the sensei is focusing, I did notice she used three methods to float that front leg to keep the punch flowing. All good.

Without push hands I think it's hard to actually "get" what's going on with Tai Chi. When I was training TC, it was all push hands.

[Bill Glasheen]

It's not really an either one or the other thing Bill. When moving forward I use my toes and the ball of the foot. One reason is that I'm feeling the terrain and the other is I don't want to open my center. When doing a roll back it's a shifting rather than stepping so I'll let the heel pivot to open the hips. Also weight distribution comes into for which pivot to use.

I hear you. I just happen to be able to do it both ways.

FWIW, the ninjustu folks have yet another way to step - presumably so as not to make noise. Again... come by some time. I have a student who can show you.

Bottom line - if you find something that works for you, go for it.

One thing I'm looking at in Ray's video is that I think when he says "curl your toes" I think he may be refering to locking the feet to the ground and not the cat stance she uses.

The Uechi folks do a lot of toe curling to accomplish that very thing. A side benefit of all that toe and calf training is the ability to grab the floor like a bug on glass. That's accomplished (if desired) through a combination of toe/foot gripping and external rotation of the legs/feet.

In a video that George and Charlie Earle shot of Uechi Kanei doing kata, you can clearly see him fidgeting with his toes. He would extend the big toe back, and then flex it on the floor.

Uechi Kanei Sanchin

I used to think a lot of things that Kanei Uechi did were "ideosyncracies" until I started feeling many of his oddities as my core muscle capabilites developed. I've come to realize that damn little the man did in his kata was "quirky" or a matter of personal taste. A few things yes, but... damn little.

While the video is shot and edited to focus on the host and the girl's upper body, and not where the sensei is focusing, I did notice she used three methods to float that front leg to keep the punch flowing. All good.

Indeed!

Without push hands I think it's hard to actually "get" what's going on with Tai Chi. When I was training TC, it was all push hands.

We wholeheartedly agree.

- Bill