How about this sports fans?

David Elkins · Post by **David Elkins** » Sat Oct 09, 1999 2:09 pm

Thursday October 7 7:00 PM ET
Outrage Over Boxing Match Pitting Man Vs. Woman
By Martin Wolk

SEATTLE (Reuters) - In the long and checkered history of professional boxing there has never been a match quite like the battle of the sexes on the card at Seattle's Mercer Arena Saturday -- a chance for a man and a woman to slug it out legally.

The fight pitting Margaret ``Tiger'' MacGregor, 36, against Loi Chow, 33, the first officially sanctioned male-female bout, has attracted international media attention along with howls of outrage from professional boxing circles.

The Association of Boxing Commissions, citing ``very real health and safety concerns,'' is recognizing the fight only as an exhibition. One well-known trainer offered $5,000 to call off the match, and a state representative wants to make mixed-sex boxing illegal.

``We really think it's a dangerous precedent, and it's something that women's boxing is not embracing in any form,'' said Rick Kulis, a longtime sports promoter and founder of the International Female Boxers Association.

The outpouring of antagonism has made MacGregor more determined than ever to show she can take a pounding, and dish one out.

``I'm not trying to be a freak,'' MacGregor said in a television interview. ``I'm not trying to be in a circus. I want to box, and it doesn't matter who it is.''

Both fighters are expected to weigh in at about 125 pounds (57 kg), although MacGregor, at five-foot-five (1.65 meters), is three inches (8 cm) taller than her opponent.

``This is a professional athlete,'' said her trainer Vern Miller. ``She spars guys every day -- middleweights, welterweights. This isn't little Red Riding Hood. This is the big bad wolf.''

Chow has fought just two professional matches and lost them both in 1996. He agreed to the match after the original opponent, his sparring partner Hector Morales, failed to come up with a valid passport for the fight.

``I'm doing this because it's the honorable thing to do,'' Chow told the Seattle Times. ``A friend needed help, and I said I would help out.''

Miller has trained MacGregor, of Bremerton, Wash., since 1990, after she took up martial arts and walked out on a husband who hit her. Miller has guided MacGregror to an 8-0-1 record and national title as an amateur kick boxer and a 3-0 record in her brief six-month career as a pro boxer.

He also has seen her through two stints in prison, including a three-year term for selling methamphetamine to an undercover cop in 1994. Since being released in 1997, MacGregor has gone straight, settling down with her truck driver boyfriend, studying to be a chef and mowing lawns to make ends meet, Miller said.

``She's a very stable individual right now. This thing is helping her believe in herself,'' he said.

Promoter Bob Jarvis said the fight came together almost on a whim when he heard MacGregor complaining that two scheduled fights against women fell through.

``I just said, 'You can always fight a guy,' and she jumped all over it,'' he said. ``I did not expect this kind of reaction, I can tell you that.''

Ticket sales have been brisk for Saturday's Rain City Rumble, where MacGregor and Choi will climb into the ring after the purported main event, a 10-round lightweight match between local favorite Martin O'Malley and Tito Tovar of Denver.

The state Department of Licensing, which regulates boxing along with drivers licenses, hairdressers and cemeteries, could find no reason to stop the fight.

``In terms of their experience, their history, their skill level, they are a match,'' department spokeswoman Suzanne Taylor said. ``The law does not allow us to consider gender.''

Assuming their final physical exams are clean and they weigh in within seven pounds (3.2 kg) of each other, the department will approve a fight of four, two-minute rounds, she said.

Chow, who has predicted he would win in a knockout, seems unconcerned by wags who say he cannot win.

``If he beats her, he beat a woman. If he loses, he's been beaten by a woman,'' said radio talk show host Dave Ross.

Any reactions?

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Good training,
David

Post by **gmattson** » Sat Oct 09, 1999 8:34 pm

I saw the promo on tv this morning. The gal towered over the guy and has to outweigh him by 20 pounds!

She will definately win!

How about the woman? rassler who is competing against men? I know its all staged, but they give and take some pretty hard contact. Is she on steroids?

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GEM

David Elkins · Post by **David Elkins** » Sun Oct 10, 1999 5:00 am

I thought it extremely sexist. Would any of you dudes out there want to get in the ring with a Christy Martin, a Lucia Rijker, a Kathy Long, or perhaps our own Lori? Think about it.

The wrestler....hmmmm. When I lived in Florida I received a piece of mail that had a cheap xerox copy of a woman three times my size who was coming to Fla. and setting up appointments for full contact wrestling with anyone, male or female. I never figured out what the pitch was or where they got my name (no comments!) but I had a good idea that if it were anything but illicit, I didn't want anything to do with it

As to the steroids there is an absolutely valid and reliable test that costs nothing to administer. Look at the person in question. Ask yourself, do they look human. If yes--they're clean. If no--they're not. Even really big studs and studettes who are clean look human.

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Good training,
David

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Sun Oct 10, 1999 5:10 am

Call me completely out of touch - but I really have not understood the furor over this thing! What is the real problem? If the fighters don't care - why do other people? Is this some kind of social discrimination? Or am I not seeing something here?

Personally I have no problem with it.

Peace,
Lori

Post by **gmattson** » Sun Oct 10, 1999 2:18 pm

I met a great looking gal in Vancouver a few years ago. . . She gave me a photo of herself taken in 1994 while she was competing. (check it out on the frontpage of this site.) Comments???

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GEM

Shelly King · Post by **Shelly King** » Mon Oct 11, 1999 4:22 pm

Yeah, she really made him look bad. Too bad if you ask me. I would like to have seen her fight someone a little more her caliber. Not that there has ever been any evidence of a boxing match being fixed or anything like that.

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Shelly

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Mon Oct 11, 1999 10:16 pm

J.D.-san,

Good point - I would almost wager that they set her up with an opponent below her "level" so that they (who the hell are "they" anyway?) could justify future male-female matches.

Realizing that at this stage in the game - the fighters have less to say about who and where they fight than their promoters - I still believe there should be a coed division somewhere - with voluntary membership. It may be harder to get the male fighters to participate - either problems beating on a girl or getting beat by one - but the option should be there all the same - something I've said for YEARS about karate! Keep the women's division - sure - for obvious reasons - but at least allow the option of a coed division in there somewhere...

Just my two cents - as they say!

Peace,
Lori

David Elkins · Post by **David Elkins** » Tue Oct 12, 1999 1:01 am

George asked if there were any comments about the photo of "Kat."

I think that she is a knockout (in keeping with the pugilistic theme of this thread), however, there is no doubt in my mind that she used growth producing hormones to assist in achieving the muscularity she possessed.

My friend and one of the pointmen (persons) in high intensity strength training, Dr. Ken Leistner published a wonderful strength training journal from 1985-87 called The Steel Tip. If one subscribed to this journal they could have learned all they ever needed to know about strength training.

There was an essay entitled "Bulky Muscles for Women? Who's Kidding Whom?" in The Steel Tip, Nov., 1987. This essay addressed fears many women verbalized at that time about becoming bulky and "unfeminine" should they train hard.

An excerpt: "It is very, very difficult for most men, even men who have high testosterone levels [naturally, not as a product of use of strength enhancing/growth producing hormone "therapy"--D.E.] to develop huge muscles. Muscles just do not grow on trees. It is brutally hard to develop large muscles for those who want them, let alone for those who dread them."

To speculate that Kat used strength enhancing/growth producing drugs is to take nothing away from either her femininity or the incredible amount of work, deprivation, and pain she endured to sculpt the body we see.

One's response to her appearance is not relevant. As a group, I don't care too much for bodybuilders, yet I think she's a knockout--some may think that she's a freak. It's beside the point. The point is regardless of one's aesthetic response to Kat, if she did not have good genetic material to work with, and if she didn't pay her dues in incredibly hard work, she never would have achieved "the look".

Comments, disagreements, anyone tried to find her phone #?

David

Oh, I forgot--no one takes steroids. It's kind of like there are no guilty people in prison. Funny anecdote: A long time ago I went to a seminar given by a current Mr. Universe (who of course like everyone else, did not use steroids). The ambient room temperature was very comfortable yet he was sweating and complaining of the heat. Ha! Everyone in the room knew that when you are "on the juice", your body temp is higher. Of course, no one else in the room took steroids either so no one could say anything. Kind of like the emperor's new invisable clothes.

[This message has been edited by David Elkins (edited 10-11-99).]