Womanfully

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:39 am

Isn't this interesting:

Orgasm

Oh Doris Lessing, my dear—your Anna is wrong about orgasms. They are no proof of love—any more than that other Anna’s fall under the wheels of that Russian train was a proof of love. It’s all female shenanigans, cultural mishegoss, conditioning, brainwashing, male mythologizing. What does a woman want? She wants what she has been told she ought to want. Anna Wulf wants orgasm, Anna Karenina, death. Orgasm is no proof of anything. Orgasm is proof of orgasm. Someday every woman will have orgasms—like every family has color TV—and we can all get on with the real business of life.

Erica Jong (b. 1942), U.S. author. How to Save Your Own Life,“The Street Where I Lived …” (1977).

“Woman feels the invidious distinctions of sex exactly as the black man does those of color” (Elizabeth Cady Stanton).

At male strip shows, it is still the women that we watch, the audience of women and their eager faces. They are more obscene than if they were dancing naked themselves.

Jean Baudrillard (b. 1929), French semiologist. Cool Memories, ch. 2 (1987; tr. 1990).

wom·an·ful·ly (wmʹən-fŭl´&#275

adverb
With the characteristic grace, strength, or purposefulness of a woman: “I will trample . . . upon all the *****les of the impossibilities and flatten them womanfully” (Maria Edgeworth).

Okay ladies, don't shoot the messenger!

Why, some of you may get motivated to post something on this page.

What a difference between American women and European women. On the Italian martial arts website, a good 40% are women.

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Van Canna

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Wed Sep 06, 2000 3:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Canna:
Isn't this interesting:
"...Oh Doris Lessing, my dear—your Anna is wrong about orgasms. They are no proof of love—any more than that other Anna’s fall under the wheels of that Russian train was a proof of love. It’s all female shenanigans, cultural mishegoss, conditioning, brainwashing, male mythologizing. What does a woman want? She wants what she has been told she ought to want. Anna Wulf wants orgasm, Anna Karenina, death. Orgasm is no proof of anything. Orgasm is proof of orgasm. Someday every woman will have orgasms—like every family has color TV—and we can all get on with the real business of life.

Erica Jong (b. 1942), U.S. author. How to Save Your Own Life,“The Street Where I Lived …” (1977)."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa. Loaded statements there! Especially "She wants what she has been told she ought to want. " - That is precisely what I was reading in Reviving Ophelia about the myriad of mixed messages we give our young women - AND men. We need more emphasis on cultivating women's strength and confidence in their own Self - their opinions and their minds - than the mixed media and social messages we send... all too often, beginning and exemplified in our adolescent girls, they show the sad results of what girls are TOLD to want - to be - to act and become. No wonder we have the highest incidence ever of eating disorders, and other afflictions in that segment of the population.

So - we can't change the world - but we can speak our mind in an effort to effect some type of social change! Here's a place to do it - where are the women? Are there no female students in any karate dojos with an opinion they are willing to put out here?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

“Woman feels the invidious distinctions of sex exactly as the black man does those of color” (Elizabeth Cady Stanton).

I'm starting to feel that more and more - but that's a whole other thread! Or even threads - as it applies to running forums, participating in politics willingly or unwillingly, opinions as to intention when reacting in the same way as a man, disagreement by a woman means she's being bitchy while a man is being "logical" - I could go on. The double standard is alive and well and will continue to live as long as no one speaks up.

Perhaps as women this is our destiny, as many of us (myself included) do not like confrontation - and change means confrontation. So we surrender and let men continue to define the world, write our history, and our cultural norms?

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 1:45 am

Sorry - call me naive but I haven't witnessed what you speak of! I've dodged more than one "bachelorette" party - not out of any religious or other moral party line - just because I'm not into the entire night club scene. Prefering instead a play or a concert, a nice quiet dinner, fine wine, soft jazz, and the man of my dreams any day (or night!)

Never could get into strip club things - as much as friends and relatives enjoy them on occasion. So - others will have to enlighten you Van-san!

Hey Mary - how about you?

lori macleod-doyle · Post by **lori macleod-doyle** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 2:04 am

Well, I unfortunatly have not been as lucky as you. I have been dragged to a couple of these events and I can assure you, ya ain't missin nuthin. I am hardly a prude but I am amazed by the way women act at these type of things. Perfectly sane and normal women going absolutly bezerk! I just don't get it.

Many of these same women are the first to be offended when a man will make a comment toward them,even if it is not a sexual or demeaning one. But yet, here they are ,screaming like wild banshees at a bunch of guys on a stage taking their clothes off and shaking their assets.Van is right, it is almost obscene to watch the women in the audience reacting.
I have also been in strip clubs where women are on display and I can assure you that the men in the audience were much better behaved than the women are at a male event. Any idea why that is?

Lori M-D

[This message has been edited by lori macleod-doyle (edited September 06, 2000).]

Gilbert MacIntyre · Post by **Gilbert MacIntyre** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 2:16 am

Got a little something on this one. I have a friend getting married this week. He is a good looking guy, 6' 195lbs., cop. She is very pretty, well built business women.

The girls travelled to another city to have a stagette, stripper and all. We wanted to take our buddy to the Dominican, fiance says"NO WAY". So we plan a little stag here in town. One of the guys starts to rib the bride to be about the stipper we had for the stag(a lie).

She flipped, called the prankster an a**h*le, said he ruined her whole day and then stormed out of the room.

Seems like the Goose and Gander aren't as equal as they should be.
Gilbert.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:31 am

Must be that women's "double standard" again!

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Van Canna

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:57 am

" At male strip shows, it is still the women that we watch, the audience of women and their eager faces. They are more obscene than if they were dancing naked themselves."

Jean Baudrillard (b. 1929), French semiologist. Cool Memories, ch. 2 (1987; tr. 1990

I am interested in women's reactions to this Quote. I have witnessed this behavior personally, and so have you, either personally or on TV. What is the message here
underlying the female psyche, and the signals that are sent out to the male population, and the perception of such by males at large?

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Van Canna

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:46 pm

Lori, I think I'm the wrong person to ask...

The desire from women to pay a man to remove his clothes and then to sit en masse and get frenzied is beyond me.

Mary (the "Prude")

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Thu Sep 07, 2000 4:44 pm

DOCTOR!

ROTFLMAOOL!!!

That was great...