This is not mine, but I thought it did a good job of highlighting some major differences between the two.
Dana
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
<H3>
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense</H3></CENTER>
There is a world of difference between studying a Martial Art and learning Self Defense. The two should not be confused. On this page, I will attempt to clarify the differences, highlight the similarities, and, by so doing, provide a basis for comparison and evaluation.
This is not intended to be an exhaustive discussion; nor is it intended to promote one program over another. I will attempt to cover the three areas of growth that are said to be developed by study of the martial arts: body, mind, and spirit. It is important to note that just because one program does or does not offer a particular benefit, this is not necessarily a "bad" thing. The program may not be designed to do so. One must base her evaluation only on whether the program offers the specific benefit she is seeking. In other words, if one is seeking physical fitness, a two-week self defense class will obviously not provide the same benefits as a life-long study of the Martial Arts. On the other hand, if one is seeking information on rape prevention and awareness, one might find these hard to come by in a dojo.
chart is located at: http://www.rutabaga.com/~xena/self_defense.html
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 13, 2002).]
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
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beckyhaworth
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
Interesting information Dana....I think we can also take some of the information with a grain of salt, because some schools teach different things....as always.
Still, good information.
Becky
Still, good information.
Becky
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Dana Sheets
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
Becky,
Which ones do not apply to your training group or school?
Dana
Which ones do not apply to your training group or school?
Dana
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turbotort2000
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
Dana, this is all kinda abstract. Can you help us out a little and tell us how parts or a part of this chart can apply to a self-defense class? Maybe even a little hypothical example if it would be too wordy for an explanaition. For the unanointed such as myself, this chart is kinda baffling.
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Dana Sheets
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
I see this as the age old question "is training martial arts training self defense".
This list points out the common things you learn in a self-defense class that are often excluded from "traditional" martial arts training.
One of the reasons I started training martials arts was my own interest in self-defense. But, as has been discussed in the past, most training in martial arts doesn't have much to do with preparing students for an actual street encounter.
Dana
This list points out the common things you learn in a self-defense class that are often excluded from "traditional" martial arts training.
One of the reasons I started training martials arts was my own interest in self-defense. But, as has been discussed in the past, most training in martial arts doesn't have much to do with preparing students for an actual street encounter.
Dana
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turbotort2000
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
Dana,
Your schools m.a. curriculum may not focus on self-defense and certainly most do not. But many do. I study at a school called ketsugo jujitsu and about 1/2 of any class is senerio training where guy has you up agaist wall with knife to throat. Or, guy is behind you with rope around your throat, or two guys and one is swinging stick ect, ect. I have seen other schools and other systems that are very similar.
The chart though is kinda abstract and leaves room for interpretation so I was kinda hoping for an intrepretation on one small part to get the flavor of where you are going with this.
Your schools m.a. curriculum may not focus on self-defense and certainly most do not. But many do. I study at a school called ketsugo jujitsu and about 1/2 of any class is senerio training where guy has you up agaist wall with knife to throat. Or, guy is behind you with rope around your throat, or two guys and one is swinging stick ect, ect. I have seen other schools and other systems that are very similar.
The chart though is kinda abstract and leaves room for interpretation so I was kinda hoping for an intrepretation on one small part to get the flavor of where you are going with this.
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Dana Sheets
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
TBT2K,
Short answer:
Self defense classes are just about punching and hurting. Martial Arts are (were) supposed so be about the improvement of the individual on a physical, mental and spiritual level. If Martial Arts are only about learning how to hurt people, then the art is lost.
Longer answer:
The chart breaks down 3 things - body, mind, and spirit, and asssigns certain qualities to each. Self defense classes tend to be very scenario based. Bad guy comes at you like this, you do this kind of stuff.
It is a more recent trend in MArts training to add scenario training. For example, the legend goes that the Boddivistia (sp?) who traveled from india found the monks too weak to meditate. He gave them a series of exercises to build their health - these are the infamous 18 LoHan movements and the kata sanchin (sam chien, 3 arrow step, 3 steps forward, it is called by many names).
These exercises were not added because the sage found the monks unfit for combat, they were added because the monks were unfit for enlightenment.
Many of the partner drills in chinese martial arts that claim to be decended from the Shaolin arts contain many partner exercises where the focus is on the discovery and sharing of force between two people in a continuous and unbroken way. Silk reeling is a good example of this.
Nathan J. Johnson makes an argu1ment in his book "Barefoot Zen" (ISBN# 1-57863-142-4)that the original development of empty-handed arts had nothing at all do to with what we today consider to be self-defense. Think about, if you want to fight, why do so empty handed when any kind of weapon afford you so much an advantage?
Anyway - he goes on to say on pg 11:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Physical exercise and intellectual considerations aside, practice is energizing and stimulating. It leads to an incredible feeling of well-being. Harmonizeing with another person during push-hands gives perhaps the greatest insight into the true pyschologyical and spiritual value of the empty-hand way as a means to resolve duality (contradition.) I suggest that, from a Buddhist perspective, this has a grander and more pessing importance than any immediate needs for self-defense or imagined scenarios of confrtontation. I am not alone in supporting the inheretly spiritual characteristics of the original empty-hand art. Patrick McCarthy, hailed by many as one of the world's foremost Western Karate Historians, says the following:
"The most successful spiritual factions within man's ancient communities effectively cultivated remarkable doctrines that provide illuminating path upon which followers through methodical self-diagnosis discovered the source of human suffering. In an effort to protect their spiritual beliefs and maintain a robust health, spiritual recluses cultivated herbalism, physical exercise and self-defense to protect their beliefs. The legendary place that cradeled this unique synthesis is reputed to be Chin'as Shaolin Monestary. Yet when introduced outside its monastic sanctuary, the moral and spiritual elements of Quan Fa (Gong Fu or Kung Fu) became detached and redcued to a ritual of lip service. This resulted primarily because its defenseive technqiues were often sought after by secular disciples many of whom placed little or no importance upon its moral or spiritual purpose." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're still with me,
The empty-hand arts had a 3 fold purpose. To train the body for good health, to train the mind for enlightenment, and to learn the skills that would late be applied with weapons to protect the monestary.
When training empty handed with a partner the monks were seeking to understand the way of life. Not the way of death.
Dana
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 13, 2002).]
Short answer:
Self defense classes are just about punching and hurting. Martial Arts are (were) supposed so be about the improvement of the individual on a physical, mental and spiritual level. If Martial Arts are only about learning how to hurt people, then the art is lost.
Longer answer:
The chart breaks down 3 things - body, mind, and spirit, and asssigns certain qualities to each. Self defense classes tend to be very scenario based. Bad guy comes at you like this, you do this kind of stuff.
It is a more recent trend in MArts training to add scenario training. For example, the legend goes that the Boddivistia (sp?) who traveled from india found the monks too weak to meditate. He gave them a series of exercises to build their health - these are the infamous 18 LoHan movements and the kata sanchin (sam chien, 3 arrow step, 3 steps forward, it is called by many names).
These exercises were not added because the sage found the monks unfit for combat, they were added because the monks were unfit for enlightenment.
Many of the partner drills in chinese martial arts that claim to be decended from the Shaolin arts contain many partner exercises where the focus is on the discovery and sharing of force between two people in a continuous and unbroken way. Silk reeling is a good example of this.
Nathan J. Johnson makes an argu1ment in his book "Barefoot Zen" (ISBN# 1-57863-142-4)that the original development of empty-handed arts had nothing at all do to with what we today consider to be self-defense. Think about, if you want to fight, why do so empty handed when any kind of weapon afford you so much an advantage?
Anyway - he goes on to say on pg 11:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Physical exercise and intellectual considerations aside, practice is energizing and stimulating. It leads to an incredible feeling of well-being. Harmonizeing with another person during push-hands gives perhaps the greatest insight into the true pyschologyical and spiritual value of the empty-hand way as a means to resolve duality (contradition.) I suggest that, from a Buddhist perspective, this has a grander and more pessing importance than any immediate needs for self-defense or imagined scenarios of confrtontation. I am not alone in supporting the inheretly spiritual characteristics of the original empty-hand art. Patrick McCarthy, hailed by many as one of the world's foremost Western Karate Historians, says the following:
"The most successful spiritual factions within man's ancient communities effectively cultivated remarkable doctrines that provide illuminating path upon which followers through methodical self-diagnosis discovered the source of human suffering. In an effort to protect their spiritual beliefs and maintain a robust health, spiritual recluses cultivated herbalism, physical exercise and self-defense to protect their beliefs. The legendary place that cradeled this unique synthesis is reputed to be Chin'as Shaolin Monestary. Yet when introduced outside its monastic sanctuary, the moral and spiritual elements of Quan Fa (Gong Fu or Kung Fu) became detached and redcued to a ritual of lip service. This resulted primarily because its defenseive technqiues were often sought after by secular disciples many of whom placed little or no importance upon its moral or spiritual purpose." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're still with me,
The empty-hand arts had a 3 fold purpose. To train the body for good health, to train the mind for enlightenment, and to learn the skills that would late be applied with weapons to protect the monestary.
When training empty handed with a partner the monks were seeking to understand the way of life. Not the way of death.
Dana
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 13, 2002).]
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turbotort2000
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
Dana, sorry it took so long for a reply. I in the process of moving and have not been on the computer so much except to play diablo 2 which rocks by the way. I can't say I have any spirtual aspirations so maybe my art is lost. I quit aikido to go to jujitsu when the school shut down cause other aikido schools spent a lot of training time rambling about philosphy during class time and I found that annoying. Also jujitsu has a more diverse curriculm which is cool if you are in m.a. for the longhaul.
I am understanding the chart a little better when you break it down into mind body spirt. You sound like kinda a history buff of martial arts and thats cool. On the subject of weapons, do the woman in your self-defense class get exposed to any weapon training including pepper spray, or just empty hand?
I am understanding the chart a little better when you break it down into mind body spirt. You sound like kinda a history buff of martial arts and thats cool. On the subject of weapons, do the woman in your self-defense class get exposed to any weapon training including pepper spray, or just empty hand?
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Dana Sheets
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
We don't train weapons in my karate school. We only train empty-hand.
Presently we do not do "scenario" training at my school and I doubt we will add it in the near future.
I am not making a value judgement on how anyone trains. I am just putting it out there that there was a tradition of doing the martial arts that had a greater emphasis on personal improvement and a lesser emphasis on self-defense.
Today - there are many, many people who choose to train mainly for self-defense and seek their personal improvement elsewhere.
Both are equally valid. Different modalities of training serve different needs. And we've all got needs!!!
I think what helps people is if they are really aware of what they want out of their training, if their current teacher offers that, and if they are aware of what they are really training for.
Dana
Presently we do not do "scenario" training at my school and I doubt we will add it in the near future.
I am not making a value judgement on how anyone trains. I am just putting it out there that there was a tradition of doing the martial arts that had a greater emphasis on personal improvement and a lesser emphasis on self-defense.
Today - there are many, many people who choose to train mainly for self-defense and seek their personal improvement elsewhere.
Both are equally valid. Different modalities of training serve different needs. And we've all got needs!!!
I think what helps people is if they are really aware of what they want out of their training, if their current teacher offers that, and if they are aware of what they are really training for.
Dana
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Dana Sheets
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
Len, wonderful post. thank you.
However...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A good dojo should also have special classes and seminars for their students on verbal self defense, character recognition, timing, reaction drills, areas of the body that are vulnerable, awareness training, woofing, and what to do if you are knocked down, to supplement the physical defense training.
Do not sell your self short if you are learning karate in dojo. You are learning to fight or not to fight with others who are learning to fight. You are not just learning how to defend. You are learning to be a technician of defense. If your instructor does not convey this to you when you are in the dojo, he/she is just taking your money and giving you some exercise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How many of the martial arts schools that are out there are "good dojo's"? I think in Uechi we'd like to think that we have a higher than average percentage of "good schools" but what is the reality? I suppose there's no way to find out. But when I talk to folks about their training in the past most have been to McDojo type schools or trained during college - most did forms, point sparring, basic techniques. Very, very few describe the currciculm you did.
What's going on? Do people really want to learn Self-Defense - or are most Martial Arts consumers - particularly women - just looking for a good workout and spiritual development and a few self-defense techniques on the side??
And what's wrong with just getting exercise anyway? America's obesity level is at a record high. Adult onset diabetes is at a record high. If Martial Arts is a way to get the country in shape shouldn't that be more important than making Jane & John Q. Public "fighters"???
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 14, 2002).]
However...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A good dojo should also have special classes and seminars for their students on verbal self defense, character recognition, timing, reaction drills, areas of the body that are vulnerable, awareness training, woofing, and what to do if you are knocked down, to supplement the physical defense training.
Do not sell your self short if you are learning karate in dojo. You are learning to fight or not to fight with others who are learning to fight. You are not just learning how to defend. You are learning to be a technician of defense. If your instructor does not convey this to you when you are in the dojo, he/she is just taking your money and giving you some exercise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How many of the martial arts schools that are out there are "good dojo's"? I think in Uechi we'd like to think that we have a higher than average percentage of "good schools" but what is the reality? I suppose there's no way to find out. But when I talk to folks about their training in the past most have been to McDojo type schools or trained during college - most did forms, point sparring, basic techniques. Very, very few describe the currciculm you did.
What's going on? Do people really want to learn Self-Defense - or are most Martial Arts consumers - particularly women - just looking for a good workout and spiritual development and a few self-defense techniques on the side??
And what's wrong with just getting exercise anyway? America's obesity level is at a record high. Adult onset diabetes is at a record high. If Martial Arts is a way to get the country in shape shouldn't that be more important than making Jane & John Q. Public "fighters"???
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 14, 2002).]
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
the best defense
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
On the other hand, if one is seeking information on rape prevention and awareness, one might find these hard to come by in a dojo.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>by Dana
...most training in martial arts doesn't have much to do with preparing students for an actual street encounter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree with these two statements and this is why.
I have discussed the inefficiency of learning from courses such as the Model Mugging Training program on other forums in the past. The main reason that I am against these programs for self-defense is that they do not teach you to improvise.
These programs teach a definative way of defending an attack without teaching options of defense if the attack is not done in the exact manner in which the student is accustomed to.
In a dojo, or any karate school worth learning from, you must teach your students to react to attacks in the best defense for the situation at that time.
They will do this because of constant practicing of the many defensive techniques that are taught in the various forms. They will practice these techniques on other students of different size, shapes and weights. They will learn what works for them and what does not. What works for me may not work for you. Defenses of the same attack may also vary because of the angle of attack, the size of the attacker or even the dispostion of the attacker. Two week self defense courses can not posssible show the many variations of defenses for a given attack. What about various surfaces you are on. Some moves work well on a hard surface and some work well on soft surfaces how can you teach that to someone in a two week course. These many variables can only be understood by many years of practice.
What about conditioning? How do you convey to a self-defense seminar student that they might be hurt when performing a simple block? They cannot comprehend the fact that in defending they may be injured. Also you have to leave it up to the person to condition him or herself. It takes many years of conditioning for a full time karate student to be able to survive a street encounter without getting some minor or major injury. What if the technique, that a person used, which was described in the course fails? Can he/she improvise another technique that he/she knows has worked in this situation?
In a two week course you may learn a move that might even work when you try it. If you are lucky enough to perform it correctly and didn't get injured there is no guarantee that you will perform it again with the same results. The reason is; in a dojo you are constantly practicing these moves with others who are also conditioned and practicing the same moves.
How can you teach proper timing of a technique to a two week self defense course student. One must practice for many years to be able to "read" the attackers moves and react with a perfectly timed block or strike as is deemed necessary for the situation at hand.
A good dojo should teach their students that what they are learning is an art. By learning an art and learning "all" the ways of defense and attack one will make up her/his own mind as to what defensive or offensive techniques will work because she/he tried them all numerous times over the course of many years practice.
Here is an analogy that might help to understand what I am trying to say. I will use the Fine Arts or painting which is an art everyone is familiar with.
If I wanted to paint on a canvas. I can go to a two week course that will teach me how to hold a brush and how to use the brush. Maybe varying the strokes long and short will cause the colors to darken or the lines to be narrow or wide. I may learn what colors that I can use make a brighter or darker painting. Then I will learn how to copy a real painting or still life or model. When I have finished this course, does this make me an artist? I don't think so. When I have finished the two week course on painting, I might be able to copy someone elses painting. It may even look similiar to what I copied. But it would not look exacty like it.
If I go to a Fine Arts College and major in Art, I will study for many weeks just on colors. How the basic colors magenta, cyan and yellow can mixed in various quantities to form any color of the spectrum. I will study for many more weeks on color shading and how to get different effects of shading with brush strokes. I will study abstract art, conventional art, photographic art, and photographic imaging. How they appear on canvas, paper, film, porous and non pourus materials. When I am through with 4 years of learning and practicing I will now be able to use the knowledge that I learned to improvise my own ideas and skills to create masterpieces.
Your dojo is your college of defense.
A good dojo should also have special classes and seminars for their students on verbal self defense, character recognition, timing, reaction drills, areas of the body that are vulnerable, awareness training, woofing, and what to do if you are knocked down, to supplement the physical defense training.
Do not sell your self short if you are learning karate in dojo. You are learning to fight or not to fight with others who are learning to fight. You are not just learning how to defend. You are learning to be a technician of defense. If your instructor does not convey this to you when you are in the dojo, he/she is just taking your money and giving you some exercise.
------------------
Len
[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited March 14, 2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>by Dana
...most training in martial arts doesn't have much to do with preparing students for an actual street encounter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree with these two statements and this is why.
I have discussed the inefficiency of learning from courses such as the Model Mugging Training program on other forums in the past. The main reason that I am against these programs for self-defense is that they do not teach you to improvise.
These programs teach a definative way of defending an attack without teaching options of defense if the attack is not done in the exact manner in which the student is accustomed to.
In a dojo, or any karate school worth learning from, you must teach your students to react to attacks in the best defense for the situation at that time.
They will do this because of constant practicing of the many defensive techniques that are taught in the various forms. They will practice these techniques on other students of different size, shapes and weights. They will learn what works for them and what does not. What works for me may not work for you. Defenses of the same attack may also vary because of the angle of attack, the size of the attacker or even the dispostion of the attacker. Two week self defense courses can not posssible show the many variations of defenses for a given attack. What about various surfaces you are on. Some moves work well on a hard surface and some work well on soft surfaces how can you teach that to someone in a two week course. These many variables can only be understood by many years of practice.
What about conditioning? How do you convey to a self-defense seminar student that they might be hurt when performing a simple block? They cannot comprehend the fact that in defending they may be injured. Also you have to leave it up to the person to condition him or herself. It takes many years of conditioning for a full time karate student to be able to survive a street encounter without getting some minor or major injury. What if the technique, that a person used, which was described in the course fails? Can he/she improvise another technique that he/she knows has worked in this situation?
In a two week course you may learn a move that might even work when you try it. If you are lucky enough to perform it correctly and didn't get injured there is no guarantee that you will perform it again with the same results. The reason is; in a dojo you are constantly practicing these moves with others who are also conditioned and practicing the same moves.
How can you teach proper timing of a technique to a two week self defense course student. One must practice for many years to be able to "read" the attackers moves and react with a perfectly timed block or strike as is deemed necessary for the situation at hand.
A good dojo should teach their students that what they are learning is an art. By learning an art and learning "all" the ways of defense and attack one will make up her/his own mind as to what defensive or offensive techniques will work because she/he tried them all numerous times over the course of many years practice.
Here is an analogy that might help to understand what I am trying to say. I will use the Fine Arts or painting which is an art everyone is familiar with.
If I wanted to paint on a canvas. I can go to a two week course that will teach me how to hold a brush and how to use the brush. Maybe varying the strokes long and short will cause the colors to darken or the lines to be narrow or wide. I may learn what colors that I can use make a brighter or darker painting. Then I will learn how to copy a real painting or still life or model. When I have finished this course, does this make me an artist? I don't think so. When I have finished the two week course on painting, I might be able to copy someone elses painting. It may even look similiar to what I copied. But it would not look exacty like it.
If I go to a Fine Arts College and major in Art, I will study for many weeks just on colors. How the basic colors magenta, cyan and yellow can mixed in various quantities to form any color of the spectrum. I will study for many more weeks on color shading and how to get different effects of shading with brush strokes. I will study abstract art, conventional art, photographic art, and photographic imaging. How they appear on canvas, paper, film, porous and non pourus materials. When I am through with 4 years of learning and practicing I will now be able to use the knowledge that I learned to improvise my own ideas and skills to create masterpieces.
Your dojo is your college of defense.
A good dojo should also have special classes and seminars for their students on verbal self defense, character recognition, timing, reaction drills, areas of the body that are vulnerable, awareness training, woofing, and what to do if you are knocked down, to supplement the physical defense training.
Do not sell your self short if you are learning karate in dojo. You are learning to fight or not to fight with others who are learning to fight. You are not just learning how to defend. You are learning to be a technician of defense. If your instructor does not convey this to you when you are in the dojo, he/she is just taking your money and giving you some exercise.
------------------
Len
[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited March 14, 2002).]
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Do people really want to learn self-defense?
According data received on the questioneers that I give my prospects almost every one checked off self-defense along with discipline, self-esteem, and agility being benifits they expect to gain by enrolling in my school. Exercise was checked but not without self-defense being checked off too.
However...You do not have to be in perfect shape to be a fighter or know how to defend yourself! I know of many good Uechi-ryu practitioners out there that do not look like Adonis. Most have a protruding "uechi belly" and some even are built like bull dogs. Small, stout, and mean.
The many people who attend karate schools whom are more concerned about exercise, and less concerned about self-defense should heed Sensei Canna's advice. The best self defense aid is the concealed firearm.
If it is exercise you want sign up for Tae Bo or Cardio Kickboxing classes at a gym or even the local McDojo. Do not attend classes at a "self defense curriculum" karate academy. Never attend these McDojo schools if you want self-defense. Just try using those musical movements on the drunk jerk that wants to pound you for bumping him and making him spill beer on his clothes. Or, try pulling your firearm in a crowded nightclub when some ****hole is staring you down and is coercing you into fighting. You will be dragged off to jail so fast your head will spin and your right to carry may be revoked. I would only use my firearm if I was alone and was attacked. If I was walking to my car across a deserted parking lot late at night. Then my firearm would be the best defense. Firearms are useful if you are the victim of a robbery, rape, carjacking, or home invasion. They are not useful in a normal argument turned into a brawl. This is where 90% of self defense is used. This is the reason I teach this curriculum at my dojo.
And God forbid. If you really want to learn self-defense...Do not go to a two week course...unless you want to make it a prerequisite for a full karate curriculum.
------------------
Len
Yes Dana, there are many McDojo out there. I pity the poor fools who join one of these with the only reason for doing so being self defense.If Martial Arts is a way to get the country in shape shouldn't that be more important than making Jane & John Q. Public "fighters"???
Do people really want to learn self-defense?
According data received on the questioneers that I give my prospects almost every one checked off self-defense along with discipline, self-esteem, and agility being benifits they expect to gain by enrolling in my school. Exercise was checked but not without self-defense being checked off too.
However...You do not have to be in perfect shape to be a fighter or know how to defend yourself! I know of many good Uechi-ryu practitioners out there that do not look like Adonis. Most have a protruding "uechi belly" and some even are built like bull dogs. Small, stout, and mean.
The many people who attend karate schools whom are more concerned about exercise, and less concerned about self-defense should heed Sensei Canna's advice. The best self defense aid is the concealed firearm.
If it is exercise you want sign up for Tae Bo or Cardio Kickboxing classes at a gym or even the local McDojo. Do not attend classes at a "self defense curriculum" karate academy. Never attend these McDojo schools if you want self-defense. Just try using those musical movements on the drunk jerk that wants to pound you for bumping him and making him spill beer on his clothes. Or, try pulling your firearm in a crowded nightclub when some ****hole is staring you down and is coercing you into fighting. You will be dragged off to jail so fast your head will spin and your right to carry may be revoked. I would only use my firearm if I was alone and was attacked. If I was walking to my car across a deserted parking lot late at night. Then my firearm would be the best defense. Firearms are useful if you are the victim of a robbery, rape, carjacking, or home invasion. They are not useful in a normal argument turned into a brawl. This is where 90% of self defense is used. This is the reason I teach this curriculum at my dojo.
And God forbid. If you really want to learn self-defense...Do not go to a two week course...unless you want to make it a prerequisite for a full karate curriculum.
------------------
Len
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
So Len, are you saying that learning self-defense is the most important thing training karate has to offer??
If so, do you really think self-defense takes a lifetime to master? I mean -f if you get a good understanding of the basic principles --aren't those the types of technqiues that end up getting used in a self-defense situation? Doesn't the army expect folks to be combat ready in as little as 16 weeks? Why are we spending so many years on what the military spends only months?
Dana
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 15, 2002).]
If so, do you really think self-defense takes a lifetime to master? I mean -f if you get a good understanding of the basic principles --aren't those the types of technqiues that end up getting used in a self-defense situation? Doesn't the army expect folks to be combat ready in as little as 16 weeks? Why are we spending so many years on what the military spends only months?
Dana
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 15, 2002).]
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gmattson
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Martial Arts vs. Self Defense
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
This officer stated that our side does not expect their troops to be fighting hand-to-hand, since wars are not fought hand-to-hand. But someone who thinkshe is an inferior fighter, will allow this thinking to interfere with his ability to fight in any way!
Does the army think that a two week course will make fighting machines out of their men?
Yea... as long as 100% of the fight is 50 yards away from the enemy!
I'm sure there are a number of special forces who must deal with hand-to-hand combat. I'm also sure they receive a hell of a lot more training than the two week familiarity course the average GI gets. There is no magic course anyone that turns an average person into someone able to use this information and techniques with effectiveness. For this, a person needs ongoing instruction and practice.
Ironically, the more a person knows and the more he/she trains, the more they understand that there isn't any "easy" or "quick" ways.
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GEM
I was told by a very high ranked officer who served in WWII that we trained our troops in hand-to-hand combat for one reason only: To give them self confidence when in battle with an enemy they perceive to be superior weaponless fighters. (Like the Japanese during WWII)Why are we spending so many years on what the military spends only months?
This officer stated that our side does not expect their troops to be fighting hand-to-hand, since wars are not fought hand-to-hand. But someone who thinkshe is an inferior fighter, will allow this thinking to interfere with his ability to fight in any way!
Does the army think that a two week course will make fighting machines out of their men?
Yea... as long as 100% of the fight is 50 yards away from the enemy!
I'm sure there are a number of special forces who must deal with hand-to-hand combat. I'm also sure they receive a hell of a lot more training than the two week familiarity course the average GI gets. There is no magic course anyone that turns an average person into someone able to use this information and techniques with effectiveness. For this, a person needs ongoing instruction and practice.
Ironically, the more a person knows and the more he/she trains, the more they understand that there isn't any "easy" or "quick" ways.
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GEM
