You stayed late at work on Friday night. Your'e the last one to leave your office. As you go through the parking garage towards your car you're thinking about what you're going to wear on your date.
The garage is fairly empty, the only other cars left are the ones people leave over the weekend. You're on the 3rd level down of an underground garage.
You put your keys in the driver's side door, & unlock it. You shift your grip on your keys so that you can open your car door with the same hand.
At the moment you feel the handle under your fingertips you are grabbed in a choke hold from behind and you feel something pointy against your ribs.
"Don't move" he whisper growls in your ear "or I'll cut you open." "I'm going to take you for a ride in your car."
<HR>
Details:
YOU:
You had the keys in your right hand to open the car door and your briefcase & purse in your left. You're female, 5' 5" 150 pounds. You're wearing a blouse, dress pants, and flats. You do NOT have a gun, pepper spray, or a kobutan key chain. You just have keys on a ring.
HIM:
The bad guy has his left arm around your neck in the choke - the choke is very tight. The pointy thing (whatever it is) seems to be in his right hand. He seems taller than you, and bigger than you. All you can see is the blue denim of his shirt sleeve around your neck
What do you do????
Attacked in a Parking Lot
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turbotort2000
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Sacramento Calfiornia USA
Attacked in a Parking Lot
A test? I will take a stab at this (sorry about the pun). I hope it is ok that I assume for this hypothical that the pointy thing is in his left hand the choke is with the right hand.
1)Don't want to go in the car. Whatever place he is going to take is going to be more isolated and more adventagous for him than your current location.
2) Tuck your chin down and try to pull his elbow against your chest to realive some of the pressure. Looks like he wants compliance and oppossed to rendering victem unconcious so it could buy time.
3) Determine if the pointy thing is a knife or his car keys or something else. Try push your body slightly into it to see what it feels like.
4) If it is not a knife, start a convesation about what do you want ect ect, while dropping your bag to distact him take your keys, point of key down, step to the side and drive the keys into his groin and yell help rape repeatly.
5) If it is a knife, tell him you have aids and your christian religion forbids you to kill another human being with this disease. Try to neogociate your way out of getting in the car until you are in (if this can't be done), and see if you get in a better positon to escape once in the car.
1)Don't want to go in the car. Whatever place he is going to take is going to be more isolated and more adventagous for him than your current location.
2) Tuck your chin down and try to pull his elbow against your chest to realive some of the pressure. Looks like he wants compliance and oppossed to rendering victem unconcious so it could buy time.
3) Determine if the pointy thing is a knife or his car keys or something else. Try push your body slightly into it to see what it feels like.
4) If it is not a knife, start a convesation about what do you want ect ect, while dropping your bag to distact him take your keys, point of key down, step to the side and drive the keys into his groin and yell help rape repeatly.
5) If it is a knife, tell him you have aids and your christian religion forbids you to kill another human being with this disease. Try to neogociate your way out of getting in the car until you are in (if this can't be done), and see if you get in a better positon to escape once in the car.
Attacked in a Parking Lot
One of the problems is that in those moments the brain seems to shut down under hyperventilation that is immediate, and it is hard to think of specific escape techniques.
So you are left with responses from the primal brain that can internalize Mindset training as per these concepts from Lt. Strong [ Strong on defense] which we covered on these pages a few years ago.
No guarantees, but better than trying to think of specific techniques, although it does not hurt to visualize you in that situation and think of your options.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1. React Immediately!
The more time you take to react to an attack, the more time you give the attackers to bring you under control.
2. Resist!
Crime statistics show that resisting with all you've got is vastly preferable to letting a violent criminal have his way with you.
3. Escape Now!
Get out of the situation as quickly as you can. Do not stand and fight or wait for the police, or hang around for any other reason.
4. No Crime Scene #2!
If a violent criminal moves you from the place of initial contact to a second location, your odds of survival fall dramatically.
5. Never, Ever Give Up!!!
People have escaped and survived dangerous situations after being riddled with bullets, after falling several stories, after being burned, blinded, etc. No matter what happens, YOU WILL SURVIVE.
Now, do the following mindsetting exercises:
· Decide conclusively and adamantly, and reinforce periodically, that you are more afraid of the attackers' getting control over you than you are of getting injured while resisting.
Crime statistics overwhelmingly show that this outlook is more than reasonable. You can accomplish this by reading about and occasionally dwelling on the horror of what violent criminals do to controllable victims.
Realize that you likely WILL get injured in some way while resisting a violent attack, but that this is always preferable to the alternative.
· Decide and remind yourself periodically that you will NEVER believe a criminal.
Most violent criminals "suffer" from anti-social personality disorder. Common symptoms of this disorder are compulsive lying and manipulative behavior. Promises such as, "Do as I say and I won't hurt you," and "I'll let you go if you stop fighting," don't carry much weight when they are said by a violent criminal.
· Decide and remind yourself often that the SURVIVAL of your loved ones and yourself are your only important considerations in an emergency situation.
These are your two overwhelming priorities, in contrast to the health (freedom from injury) of yourself or loved ones, the well-being of bystanders or the attackers, or considerations of property, morality, legality, or aftermath.
This will prevent less important considerations from causing confusion and hesitation under stress.
Remember that any other considerations can be dealt with later (going to the hospital, getting a lawyer, therapy, etc.). The survival of you and your loved ones cannot.
· Condition yourself to have no qualms about utilizing ruthless brutality against attackers. Realize and remind yourself that the horror of what an attacker will do to you far surpasses the gravity of any squeamishness you may feel about e.g. gouging his eyes out, ripping his throat out, crushing his gonads, or biting off his fingers.
A supplementary trick is to repeatedly watch the most gruesome parts of the movies Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, and any other graphically violent movie until the violence does not affect you.
· Mentally rehearse correct responses to a variety of dangerous situations, imagining them as vividly as possible. Under the stress of a dangerous situation, people are usually unable to formulate plans of action from scratch.
Most resort to a decision heuristic of similarity. In other words, the mind automatically references a similar situation from the person's experience and applies the course of action that worked in that situation to the current situation.
If no remotely similar situation is available in memory, the mind is at a loss to decide what to do and cognitive freezing may occur.
While vivid mental rehearsals of emergency situations may be poor substitutes for actual simulations or especially the real thing, they are certainly better than nothing and are often the best references available to the average citizen.
Rehearse a few likely types of scenarios repeatedly, applying the proper principles to your imaginary reactions. Imagine yourself applying the principles of self-defense (specific techniques or movements are unimportant) to real situations reported in the news.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
------------------
Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited March 15, 2002).]
So you are left with responses from the primal brain that can internalize Mindset training as per these concepts from Lt. Strong [ Strong on defense] which we covered on these pages a few years ago.
No guarantees, but better than trying to think of specific techniques, although it does not hurt to visualize you in that situation and think of your options.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1. React Immediately!
The more time you take to react to an attack, the more time you give the attackers to bring you under control.
2. Resist!
Crime statistics show that resisting with all you've got is vastly preferable to letting a violent criminal have his way with you.
3. Escape Now!
Get out of the situation as quickly as you can. Do not stand and fight or wait for the police, or hang around for any other reason.
4. No Crime Scene #2!
If a violent criminal moves you from the place of initial contact to a second location, your odds of survival fall dramatically.
5. Never, Ever Give Up!!!
People have escaped and survived dangerous situations after being riddled with bullets, after falling several stories, after being burned, blinded, etc. No matter what happens, YOU WILL SURVIVE.
Now, do the following mindsetting exercises:
· Decide conclusively and adamantly, and reinforce periodically, that you are more afraid of the attackers' getting control over you than you are of getting injured while resisting.
Crime statistics overwhelmingly show that this outlook is more than reasonable. You can accomplish this by reading about and occasionally dwelling on the horror of what violent criminals do to controllable victims.
Realize that you likely WILL get injured in some way while resisting a violent attack, but that this is always preferable to the alternative.
· Decide and remind yourself periodically that you will NEVER believe a criminal.
Most violent criminals "suffer" from anti-social personality disorder. Common symptoms of this disorder are compulsive lying and manipulative behavior. Promises such as, "Do as I say and I won't hurt you," and "I'll let you go if you stop fighting," don't carry much weight when they are said by a violent criminal.
· Decide and remind yourself often that the SURVIVAL of your loved ones and yourself are your only important considerations in an emergency situation.
These are your two overwhelming priorities, in contrast to the health (freedom from injury) of yourself or loved ones, the well-being of bystanders or the attackers, or considerations of property, morality, legality, or aftermath.
This will prevent less important considerations from causing confusion and hesitation under stress.
Remember that any other considerations can be dealt with later (going to the hospital, getting a lawyer, therapy, etc.). The survival of you and your loved ones cannot.
· Condition yourself to have no qualms about utilizing ruthless brutality against attackers. Realize and remind yourself that the horror of what an attacker will do to you far surpasses the gravity of any squeamishness you may feel about e.g. gouging his eyes out, ripping his throat out, crushing his gonads, or biting off his fingers.
A supplementary trick is to repeatedly watch the most gruesome parts of the movies Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, and any other graphically violent movie until the violence does not affect you.
· Mentally rehearse correct responses to a variety of dangerous situations, imagining them as vividly as possible. Under the stress of a dangerous situation, people are usually unable to formulate plans of action from scratch.
Most resort to a decision heuristic of similarity. In other words, the mind automatically references a similar situation from the person's experience and applies the course of action that worked in that situation to the current situation.
If no remotely similar situation is available in memory, the mind is at a loss to decide what to do and cognitive freezing may occur.
While vivid mental rehearsals of emergency situations may be poor substitutes for actual simulations or especially the real thing, they are certainly better than nothing and are often the best references available to the average citizen.
Rehearse a few likely types of scenarios repeatedly, applying the proper principles to your imaginary reactions. Imagine yourself applying the principles of self-defense (specific techniques or movements are unimportant) to real situations reported in the news.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
------------------
Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited March 15, 2002).]
Attacked in a Parking Lot
I agree with Strong's recommendations but I think they are guidelines that should be compared with the situation one is in. In this particular case, late at night, a near empty garage three stories down is already a perfect "primary" crime scene in that likely no one will be coming by for awhile.
The woman is basically on her own in the initial moments with little chance of outside help in there. Assess whether that is a knife against the back. Bide time but determine to resist when the moment presents itself. Getting into the car, some clearance from the weapon may occur. That's a time to resist. When in the car, depending on whether he is driving or you're, there will be opportunities. Most garages have a gate with an attendant. Once there, resist and scream for help. If you're driving... brace and crash on the first level where there are more people or visibility to the street. If sitting as a passenger, bite the bullet... open the door and jump, especially when he is going to have to slow down at the gate.
The best defense would have been awareness and caution from the start in that situation.
The scenario is close to home. I have four predatory incidents in the community in the past several weeks. One teenager raped. The daughter of an adult student was followed for hours. She was afraid to go home because she knew she was being followed. Another adult student saw two men coming straight at her as she was opening her front door. She stopped, turned around, saw a classmate nearby and started screaming. The two men took off. A staff person was going towards her home, saw a stranger across the narrow street hanging around. She turned around, walked to the nearby hospital parking lot and asked one of the attendants to walk her to her front steps.
I have bulletins out to all program staff and participants about the incidents. Info is necessary, unfortunately, for awareness and caution (these should always be there but are not.) Some points stressed:
* Maintain awareness.
* Trust your instincts.
* Walk in pairs or groups.
* If being followed, used the available public areas for refugee, e.g. hospital, restaurants, stores, supervised parking areas.
* Don't be afraid to ask for help and expressing one's concerns.
* Scream and keep screaming when the situation even looks hairy.
* Resist being pushed or pulled into a secondary scene.
* Make a police report and get out the word.
The info has been shared with all other service agencies and police liaison in our community. I have also informed the informal "network" about the predators lurking about.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited March 15, 2002).]
The woman is basically on her own in the initial moments with little chance of outside help in there. Assess whether that is a knife against the back. Bide time but determine to resist when the moment presents itself. Getting into the car, some clearance from the weapon may occur. That's a time to resist. When in the car, depending on whether he is driving or you're, there will be opportunities. Most garages have a gate with an attendant. Once there, resist and scream for help. If you're driving... brace and crash on the first level where there are more people or visibility to the street. If sitting as a passenger, bite the bullet... open the door and jump, especially when he is going to have to slow down at the gate.
The best defense would have been awareness and caution from the start in that situation.
The scenario is close to home. I have four predatory incidents in the community in the past several weeks. One teenager raped. The daughter of an adult student was followed for hours. She was afraid to go home because she knew she was being followed. Another adult student saw two men coming straight at her as she was opening her front door. She stopped, turned around, saw a classmate nearby and started screaming. The two men took off. A staff person was going towards her home, saw a stranger across the narrow street hanging around. She turned around, walked to the nearby hospital parking lot and asked one of the attendants to walk her to her front steps.
I have bulletins out to all program staff and participants about the incidents. Info is necessary, unfortunately, for awareness and caution (these should always be there but are not.) Some points stressed:
* Maintain awareness.
* Trust your instincts.
* Walk in pairs or groups.
* If being followed, used the available public areas for refugee, e.g. hospital, restaurants, stores, supervised parking areas.
* Don't be afraid to ask for help and expressing one's concerns.
* Scream and keep screaming when the situation even looks hairy.
* Resist being pushed or pulled into a secondary scene.
* Make a police report and get out the word.
The info has been shared with all other service agencies and police liaison in our community. I have also informed the informal "network" about the predators lurking about.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited March 15, 2002).]
Attacked in a Parking Lot
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Realize that you likely WILL get injured in some way while resisting a violent
attack, but that this is always preferable to the alternative.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wise words by Van Canna. My spouse has this "mindset",and as much as I love her, I would rather see the worst happen to her fighting back than the results of no resistance. The alternative is a shattered life or no life at all.
attack, but that this is always preferable to the alternative.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wise words by Van Canna. My spouse has this "mindset",and as much as I love her, I would rather see the worst happen to her fighting back than the results of no resistance. The alternative is a shattered life or no life at all.
Attacked in a Parking Lot
David-
I recognize the strategic value of waiting for the right moment and striking, but I find it to be a dangerous, lethal wish in sudden assault situations. The first reason, of course, is that except in extremely long term situations, the predator will be using his time to consolidate his power, physically and psychologically.
Possibly more important is that acquiessance becomes a habit. "Going along" once makes it easier every time. Criminals know this and they use it. Every second that you don't fight makes it harder and harder to start.
I wonder how many people marched into the gas chambers of Dachau waiting for the "right time". That's my own personal horror of the human psyche: that there is a mechanism that lets normal, average people knowingly walk unresisting to their own deaths.
One of the reasons that instantaneous counter-attack is preached by so many of the experienced is that that will be the predator's lowest level power. Every moment from then on will be consolidating, increasing control. He may be prepared in that instant, but that is the one time where he hasn't yet systematically stripped his victims options. He will be only more prepared later.
Dana-
For the physical situation, there are some technique/tactics that work. Most important for that level of contact, in addition to Canna-sensei's comments, is to work contact drills where you program a response to the grip. I'm not explaining this well. It's pretty tactile.
Rory
I recognize the strategic value of waiting for the right moment and striking, but I find it to be a dangerous, lethal wish in sudden assault situations. The first reason, of course, is that except in extremely long term situations, the predator will be using his time to consolidate his power, physically and psychologically.
Possibly more important is that acquiessance becomes a habit. "Going along" once makes it easier every time. Criminals know this and they use it. Every second that you don't fight makes it harder and harder to start.
I wonder how many people marched into the gas chambers of Dachau waiting for the "right time". That's my own personal horror of the human psyche: that there is a mechanism that lets normal, average people knowingly walk unresisting to their own deaths.
One of the reasons that instantaneous counter-attack is preached by so many of the experienced is that that will be the predator's lowest level power. Every moment from then on will be consolidating, increasing control. He may be prepared in that instant, but that is the one time where he hasn't yet systematically stripped his victims options. He will be only more prepared later.
Dana-
For the physical situation, there are some technique/tactics that work. Most important for that level of contact, in addition to Canna-sensei's comments, is to work contact drills where you program a response to the grip. I'm not explaining this well. It's pretty tactile.
Rory
Attacked in a Parking Lot
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I hear what you're saying and I agree that can happen. I guess the way I see it in this situation is that the BG already has very significant control and advantage already. Strategically, it may be better to wait until the BG gives some physical clearance for movement/resistance. Again, the victim has to keep in her mind to resist but at the right moment.
I had a supervisor/friend who was mugged on quiet side street. He was a little taller than me but lighter. BG came from behind and got him in a rear choke hold. (He was a great guy but not the most aware or cautious type.) He started to resist but because BG was much bigger and had good advantage he had little or no chance. BG simply lifted him up with the choke. My friend almost passed out before he stopped struggling. The BG eased off. Fortunately, the BG just wanted his valuables and left with these.
I not suggesting the woman in the scenario should not resist but to take the right timing/opportunity. She is in a terrible disadvantage being already in a choke hold with possibly a knife in her back. Of course, it takes a certain prescence of mind. She may not have that. If not, then... yeah, fight like hell from get go. But here chances are not good at all. Outside intervention on a Friday night, on the bottom floor of three story garage, is very slim. This primary scene has almost the same advantages of a secondary crime scene.
david
Rory,Possibly more important is that acquiessance becomes a habit. "Going along" once makes it easier every time.
I hear what you're saying and I agree that can happen. I guess the way I see it in this situation is that the BG already has very significant control and advantage already. Strategically, it may be better to wait until the BG gives some physical clearance for movement/resistance. Again, the victim has to keep in her mind to resist but at the right moment.
I had a supervisor/friend who was mugged on quiet side street. He was a little taller than me but lighter. BG came from behind and got him in a rear choke hold. (He was a great guy but not the most aware or cautious type.) He started to resist but because BG was much bigger and had good advantage he had little or no chance. BG simply lifted him up with the choke. My friend almost passed out before he stopped struggling. The BG eased off. Fortunately, the BG just wanted his valuables and left with these.
I not suggesting the woman in the scenario should not resist but to take the right timing/opportunity. She is in a terrible disadvantage being already in a choke hold with possibly a knife in her back. Of course, it takes a certain prescence of mind. She may not have that. If not, then... yeah, fight like hell from get go. But here chances are not good at all. Outside intervention on a Friday night, on the bottom floor of three story garage, is very slim. This primary scene has almost the same advantages of a secondary crime scene.
david
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Attacked in a Parking Lot
I'm going back to the video clip.
If you hit play, and then hit the space bar, you can make the clip go frame by frame by hitting the arrow keys.
Now then.
Frame 1 - Entering
the front foot begins to land - the fist is still by his waist
Frame 2 - Firing
the front foot finishes landing and the hips begin to close from the open position
the fist explodes from it's position near the ribs (where it drifted up) out to an inch from the opponents head. (TW 17 Evan would say here)
Frame 3 - The impact
the fist lands
the hips fully face the opponent
Frame 4 - 7 the follow through
the fist continues on it's arch
the shoulders twist through the punch
the hips twist (just a little more)
The forward momentum continues to bring the puncher into the opponent's space
(imagine how much energy he would still have in that rear leg if he had brought it up for a knee strike)
my point:
His foot lands at 1 frame (on the resolution of that clip it probably means about 1/15th or 1/10 of a second) before his punch hits - but his hips are still open - so most his momentum hasn't transferred forward.
Stomping, heel first, or toe ball heeling in -- won't do a bit of good if you leave the body weight behind by leaving the hips behind.
The timing of closing the waist to fire the fist - that is just beautiful. He also gets extra force from the extra distance he gains by firing that fist of his waist. Uechi principles have the hands in front of the body - which cuts down on that distance - but you'd still have plenty of power even with a shorter distance if you do a compressed version of what the clip shows.
Full body integration, natual movement using the body's joints as they were meant to be used, and closing the hips in the direction you need the force to go = fluid power.
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 16, 2002).]
If you hit play, and then hit the space bar, you can make the clip go frame by frame by hitting the arrow keys.
Now then.
Frame 1 - Entering
the front foot begins to land - the fist is still by his waist
Frame 2 - Firing
the front foot finishes landing and the hips begin to close from the open position
the fist explodes from it's position near the ribs (where it drifted up) out to an inch from the opponents head. (TW 17 Evan would say here)
Frame 3 - The impact
the fist lands
the hips fully face the opponent
Frame 4 - 7 the follow through
the fist continues on it's arch
the shoulders twist through the punch
the hips twist (just a little more)
The forward momentum continues to bring the puncher into the opponent's space
(imagine how much energy he would still have in that rear leg if he had brought it up for a knee strike)
my point:
His foot lands at 1 frame (on the resolution of that clip it probably means about 1/15th or 1/10 of a second) before his punch hits - but his hips are still open - so most his momentum hasn't transferred forward.
Stomping, heel first, or toe ball heeling in -- won't do a bit of good if you leave the body weight behind by leaving the hips behind.
The timing of closing the waist to fire the fist - that is just beautiful. He also gets extra force from the extra distance he gains by firing that fist of his waist. Uechi principles have the hands in front of the body - which cuts down on that distance - but you'd still have plenty of power even with a shorter distance if you do a compressed version of what the clip shows.
Full body integration, natual movement using the body's joints as they were meant to be used, and closing the hips in the direction you need the force to go = fluid power.
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited March 16, 2002).]
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Attacked in a Parking Lot
HAH!!!!
I meant to post my post (entering the low stance thread) over on Bill's forum. Silly me - I hit the reply on the wrong thread.
HAH!! I laught at myself.
oy.
And back to regularly scheduled programming...
Van you said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Strong said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Mentally rehearse correct responses to a variety of dangerous situations, imagining them as vividly as possible. Under the stress of a dangerous situation, people are usually unable to formulate plans of action from scratch.
Most resort to a decision heuristic of similarity. In other words, the mind automatically references a similar situation from the person's experience and applies the course of action that worked in that situation to the current situation.
If no remotely similar situation is available in memory, the mind is at a loss to decide what to do and cognitive freezing may occur.
While vivid mental rehearsals of emergency situations may be poor substitutes for actual simulations or especially the real thing, they are certainly better than nothing and are often the best references available to the average citizen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Seems like you're both saying that it IS important to visualize escape techniques to specific situations in order to give your brain options to go through if reality strikes. Rather than just focusing on mindset or just focusing on technique - the obivous answer is to spend some time on both.
Turbotort2000 - I do mind your changing which arm is holding you. That is key to the escape options.
Turning your head into the crook of the elbow may buy you a little room to breathe. If he's not already lifted your feet off the ground you may be able to continue the turn all the way around to face him. This has worked for me in the past because it is not a direction that is expected. Once facing you may be able to drive a palm heel up to the chin, throat or slap at the nose area to close the eyes. I'd try to get a hand down on his weapon hand as fast a possible so I can keep track of where it goes. Yes, if it's really a knife I may get my fingers sliced, but we're already too close for comfort. If I can touch his weapon hand I'll have a better chance of deflecting off his attack or moving my center body mass out of the way.
Dana
I meant to post my post (entering the low stance thread) over on Bill's forum. Silly me - I hit the reply on the wrong thread.
HAH!! I laught at myself.
oy.
And back to regularly scheduled programming...
Van you said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
and [quote...although it does not hurt to visualize you in that situation and think of your options.[/quote]One of the problems is that in those moments the brain seems to shut down under hyperventilation that is immediate, and it is hard to think of specific escape techniques.
Strong said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Mentally rehearse correct responses to a variety of dangerous situations, imagining them as vividly as possible. Under the stress of a dangerous situation, people are usually unable to formulate plans of action from scratch.
Most resort to a decision heuristic of similarity. In other words, the mind automatically references a similar situation from the person's experience and applies the course of action that worked in that situation to the current situation.
If no remotely similar situation is available in memory, the mind is at a loss to decide what to do and cognitive freezing may occur.
While vivid mental rehearsals of emergency situations may be poor substitutes for actual simulations or especially the real thing, they are certainly better than nothing and are often the best references available to the average citizen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Seems like you're both saying that it IS important to visualize escape techniques to specific situations in order to give your brain options to go through if reality strikes. Rather than just focusing on mindset or just focusing on technique - the obivous answer is to spend some time on both.
Turbotort2000 - I do mind your changing which arm is holding you. That is key to the escape options.
Turning your head into the crook of the elbow may buy you a little room to breathe. If he's not already lifted your feet off the ground you may be able to continue the turn all the way around to face him. This has worked for me in the past because it is not a direction that is expected. Once facing you may be able to drive a palm heel up to the chin, throat or slap at the nose area to close the eyes. I'd try to get a hand down on his weapon hand as fast a possible so I can keep track of where it goes. Yes, if it's really a knife I may get my fingers sliced, but we're already too close for comfort. If I can touch his weapon hand I'll have a better chance of deflecting off his attack or moving my center body mass out of the way.
Dana
-
Allen M.
Attacked in a Parking Lot
I'm often attacked by one or the other of my two sons -- each are strong [from hockey, baseball, and others], and each are 4" taller than me -- when they are feeling playful and want to "take" dad. It's often the same style, either a bear hug from behind or a headlock, and usually most always by complete surprise.
Granted they expect me to fight back and not go limp so their power is always on. 50/50 it goes to the floor and all I can do is squirm. At the same time I think of, and see, openings that are there if I wanted to hurt. Biting, pinching, gouging, positioning to grab sensetive areas are all there. Often the ability to use the elbow is not.
Mind you this is a controlled, unfearful, atmosphere in which one has the opportunity to think things out like playing chess and if something doesn't work, there's something else to try until it works. The aggressor in this play-acting scenario still most often wins, however, because he knows what he is going to do before he does it and before I know anything is going to happen.
A smallish person attacked by a much larger one doesn't have the luxury of planning moves in advance. Nor can I offer much hope of success as I see it marginally minimal at best.
There is a spark of light, though and
I do see as a defense.. Having the presence of mind, i.e., being aware of the surroundings before the event occurs, going limp immediately upon being grabbed in the hopes the perp would release his grip, then unleash something that fit the occasion before bagging out of there. That "something" can be so vague and varied that I can't just make something up.
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Granted they expect me to fight back and not go limp so their power is always on. 50/50 it goes to the floor and all I can do is squirm. At the same time I think of, and see, openings that are there if I wanted to hurt. Biting, pinching, gouging, positioning to grab sensetive areas are all there. Often the ability to use the elbow is not.
Mind you this is a controlled, unfearful, atmosphere in which one has the opportunity to think things out like playing chess and if something doesn't work, there's something else to try until it works. The aggressor in this play-acting scenario still most often wins, however, because he knows what he is going to do before he does it and before I know anything is going to happen.
A smallish person attacked by a much larger one doesn't have the luxury of planning moves in advance. Nor can I offer much hope of success as I see it marginally minimal at best.
There is a spark of light, though and
I do see as a defense.. Having the presence of mind, i.e., being aware of the surroundings before the event occurs, going limp immediately upon being grabbed in the hopes the perp would release his grip, then unleash something that fit the occasion before bagging out of there. That "something" can be so vague and varied that I can't just make something up.
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Attacked in a Parking Lot
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Turning your head into the crook of the elbow may buy you a little room to breathe. If he's not already lifted your feet off the ground you may be able to continue the turn all the way around to face him. This has worked for me in the past because it is not a direction that is expected. Once facing you may be able to drive a palm heel up to the chin, throat or slap at the nose area to close the eyes. I'd try to get a hand down on his weapon hand as fast a possible so I can keep track of where it goes. Yes, if it's really a knife I may get my fingers sliced, but we're already too close for comfort. If I can touch his weapon hand I'll have a better chance of deflecting off his attack or moving my center body mass out of the way.
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Dana,
I have to say that chances of pulling this off with a big guy who has a rear choke hold is very, very slim. Even against a similar size opponent. Once he senses the resistance and breaks your balance, it's all his to decide whether he wants choke you out or dead, or stab you a multitude of times through the ribs. Play this out on the mat hard. I think most folks will find themselves unable to break our before being choked out.
If one can visualize themselves taking on that blade, even to getting cut in the hands, provided you can twist around enough to see and engage it, then I offer you a better visualization and tactic. Visualize having a knife or a sharp object (like a metal pen) readily available. Visualize being able to access that tool, within the 10-15 seconds before you pass out... Visualize stabbing backwards into his face, or into his thigh, side or whatever, and twisting. Visualize doing it several times over. If you can visualize that, think of where to carry the tool and carry it. Then practice accessing it with a partner having you in a REAL choke hold.
Frankly, for myself, having played with rear chokes, I can't imagine escaping with empty hand techniques as a viable alternative.
david
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Dana,
I have to say that chances of pulling this off with a big guy who has a rear choke hold is very, very slim. Even against a similar size opponent. Once he senses the resistance and breaks your balance, it's all his to decide whether he wants choke you out or dead, or stab you a multitude of times through the ribs. Play this out on the mat hard. I think most folks will find themselves unable to break our before being choked out.
If one can visualize themselves taking on that blade, even to getting cut in the hands, provided you can twist around enough to see and engage it, then I offer you a better visualization and tactic. Visualize having a knife or a sharp object (like a metal pen) readily available. Visualize being able to access that tool, within the 10-15 seconds before you pass out... Visualize stabbing backwards into his face, or into his thigh, side or whatever, and twisting. Visualize doing it several times over. If you can visualize that, think of where to carry the tool and carry it. Then practice accessing it with a partner having you in a REAL choke hold.
Frankly, for myself, having played with rear chokes, I can't imagine escaping with empty hand techniques as a viable alternative.
david
Attacked in a Parking Lot
Keys are still weapons, so attacking the guy's arms( forearm) may do something---using the keys to dig into flesh and rip/tear. If she could, at some point the woman could beat him over the head with one of her shoes. That's assumigng that she can see a shoe as a weapon ahead of time.
Maybe some sort of painful biting and hitting distraction, followed by eyes or groin attacks (good luck). If he's still behind you, reach down, grab a leg and lift so that his head its the ground first.
Maybe some sort of painful biting and hitting distraction, followed by eyes or groin attacks (good luck). If he's still behind you, reach down, grab a leg and lift so that his head its the ground first.
Attacked in a Parking Lot
Wouldn`t want to be on receiving end, hope i never have to land one like that on anyone as well 
Note that his quick movement back is the result of his weight esp. the hips and center transfering the weight to the front foot, this is evident by the push off the well planted front foot to retreat.The hand being placed so low and close to the hip also helped "sucker punch" the outclassed fighter. The foot work and hip delivery made all the other body mechanics naturally fall in place. http://cyberdinn.free.fr/sutemi/KOHLER_JUDSON_1_.MPG
Can never see this enough
[This message has been edited by candan (edited March 16, 2002).]
Note that his quick movement back is the result of his weight esp. the hips and center transfering the weight to the front foot, this is evident by the push off the well planted front foot to retreat.The hand being placed so low and close to the hip also helped "sucker punch" the outclassed fighter. The foot work and hip delivery made all the other body mechanics naturally fall in place. http://cyberdinn.free.fr/sutemi/KOHLER_JUDSON_1_.MPG Can never see this enough
[This message has been edited by candan (edited March 16, 2002).]
Attacked in a Parking Lot
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
The "retreat/recovery" factor.
You plant your foot as you are at maximum commitment of timed explosion, and you can "push off" instantly to get back to "safe" __
That is another reason why professional boxers are taught the concept.
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Van Canna
Candan is pointing to a mechanical advantage here that has been missed in our discussions.the hips and center transfering the weight to the front foot, this is evident by the push off the well planted front foot to retreat.
The "retreat/recovery" factor.
You plant your foot as you are at maximum commitment of timed explosion, and you can "push off" instantly to get back to "safe" __
That is another reason why professional boxers are taught the concept.
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Van Canna
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Allen M.
Attacked in a Parking Lot
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I came back here thinking of poking the keyes into the eyes, but looks like Cecil beat me to it.
The girl is going to go for a ride. Is she going to drive? Is she going to sit in the passenger seat? Is the perp going to knck her out and throw her on the back floor or into the back of her SUV? His car? Is the perp going to stuff her into the trunk?
If he wants a "live one" he probably won't knock her out. With that a given if he is going to seat her into the front seat there is a moment that they will be seperated and she will have an opportunity to run.
If he stuffs her into the trunk of her vehicle then there are a few preparations she can make ahead of time, like having a way to open the trunk from the inside and a few tools like a knife or a flashlight.
I remember in Albuquerque when I lived there, in broad daylight a young woman was approached by a pair, one male and one female, in broad daylight at a 7-11 type parking lot, and forced into her vehicle to go for a joyride. Before they got past the interview stage while she was sitting in the driver's seat, she jammed a .38 snubby from her purse into the closest one's face, a move which ended the escapade right there. She held them at bay until the police arrived. In a lonely dark parking garage, she may actually have to squeeze-off a few rounds if her captor is persistant and remains aggressive once he realizes she has the drop on him.
I missed it the first time, but that is one heavy female.female, 5' 5" 150 pounds
I came back here thinking of poking the keyes into the eyes, but looks like Cecil beat me to it.
The girl is going to go for a ride. Is she going to drive? Is she going to sit in the passenger seat? Is the perp going to knck her out and throw her on the back floor or into the back of her SUV? His car? Is the perp going to stuff her into the trunk?
If he wants a "live one" he probably won't knock her out. With that a given if he is going to seat her into the front seat there is a moment that they will be seperated and she will have an opportunity to run.
If he stuffs her into the trunk of her vehicle then there are a few preparations she can make ahead of time, like having a way to open the trunk from the inside and a few tools like a knife or a flashlight.
I remember in Albuquerque when I lived there, in broad daylight a young woman was approached by a pair, one male and one female, in broad daylight at a 7-11 type parking lot, and forced into her vehicle to go for a joyride. Before they got past the interview stage while she was sitting in the driver's seat, she jammed a .38 snubby from her purse into the closest one's face, a move which ended the escapade right there. She held them at bay until the police arrived. In a lonely dark parking garage, she may actually have to squeeze-off a few rounds if her captor is persistant and remains aggressive once he realizes she has the drop on him.
